#49 KINGS lose to WINGS 2-3 in Shoot Out, and we don't even get a Moral Victory ?

[KINGS17]

When there's nothing to complain about, we hear crickets!

As far as the lineup goes, now that Brown seems to be waking up, I'd rather see him and Williams back on the top line and Carter dropped back down with Richards and whoever on LW. Carter is better with Richards than he is with Kopi and Richards is better with Carter. LW is always going to be a problem but if they put King on the second line, that might work.

Richards had an edge to his game last night and played even better after the blown call when he was angry. It would be nice if that happened more frequently.

 

[Herby]

You guys are HILARIOUS.

The guy plays like total garbage for weeks, and finally scores a goal and even more amazingly isn't on the ice for any goals against and ofcourse I get singled out by the people who became Kings fans on June 23, 2011 and would be Panthers fans if MR were traded there tomorrow.

I don't even know why I even give a response to people like Mswoof, but if you are wondering I attended the game last night and just returned home, I said so in the GDT. But keep convincing yourself that I wasn't around last night because Mike Richards did something productive for the first time in weeks.

BTW, still waiting for anyone to defend the guys season this year, all you Flyer fans who will be calling me out. Why hasn't he produced without Carter this season, why is he so bad defensively? Maybe instead of coming in here after one game to get your kick in on me, defend your Messiah in the other thread, or this thread?

 

[moosehead81]

When there's nothing to complain about, we hear crickets!

As far as the lineup goes, now that Brown seems to be waking up, I'd rather see him and Williams back on the top line and Carter dropped back down with Richards and whoever on LW. Carter is better with Richards than he is with Kopi and Richards is better with Carter. LW is always going to be a problem but if they put King on the second line, that might work.

I'm with you but I don't think Sutter will change his grand experiment (or whatever you want to call it). In any case, at least Richards with Williams is better team wise than what was going on before, having Richards wiith Toffoli and whatever LW was available. My sense is Carter is not happy playing with Kopitar and vice versa, Williams is probably happier playing with Richards but would be happier playing with Kopitar and Richards was certainly not happy playing on the 2nd unit power play and carrying a rookie and whatever LW slug Sutter threw out there.

In fact, the only "happy" player was probably Stoll, who saw his minutes creep up to a 2C level. The players are not stupid, they likely are as knowledgeable as any coach as to what issues prevent scoring and why Sutter decided some games back to change things is beyond me. Maybe his "experiment" is over, the players got the message and things will revert to the best use of the players he has, that being Carter with Richards and Kopitar with Brown and Williams.

 

[KINGS17]

You guys are HILARIOUS.

The guy plays like total garbage for weeks, and finally scores a goal and even more amazingly isn't on the ice for any goals against and ofcourse I get singled out by the people who became Kings fans on June 23, 2011 and would be Panthers fans if MR were traded there tomorrow.

I don't even know why I even give a response to people like Mswoof, but if you are wondering I attended the game last night and just returned home, I said so in the GDT. But keep convincing yourself that I wasn't around last night because Mike Richards did something productive for the first time in weeks.

BTW, still waiting for anyone to defend the guys season this year, all you Flyer fans who will be calling me out. Why hasn't he produced without Carter this season, why is he so bad defensively? Maybe instead of coming in here after one game to get your kick in on me, defend your Messiah in the other thread, or this thread?

Being there in person, what did you think of Kopitar's play last night?

 

[moosehead81]

You guys are HILARIOUS.

The guy plays like total garbage for weeks, and finally scores a goal and even more amazingly isn't on the ice for any goals against and ofcourse I get singled out by the people who became Kings fans on June 23, 2011 and would be Panthers fans if MR were traded there tomorrow.

I don't even know why I even give a response to people like Mswoof, but if you are wondering I attended the game last night and just returned home, I said so in the GDT. But keep convincing yourself that I wasn't around last night because Mike Richards did something productive for the first time in weeks.

BTW, still waiting for anyone to defend the guys season this year, all you Flyer fans who will be calling me out. Why hasn't he produced without Carter this season, why is he so bad defensively? Maybe instead of coming in here after one game to get your kick in on me, defend your Messiah in the other thread, or this thread?

Geez Herb I was getting worried about you. Thanks for coming back to chastise us all again. On a side note, did you see the puck hit the netting or is the lighting that bad in the Joe?

 

[Herby]

Being there in person, what did you think of Kopitar's play last night?

Definitely not one of his better games, the offensive slumps are just an unfortunate part of his game, but even when he isn't putting up points Kopitar normally controls the flow of the game whenever he is on the ice, much like a Datsyuk and Toews do, last night I didn't really see that to much from Kopi. He controls the game so well rarely do teams have sustained time in our defensive zone when he is on the ice, but last night his line struggled defensively, which like I said is a very very rare event. I'm still not to worried though, as you know I am very bullish on Kopitar, I still find him to be one of the best centers in the world, he is probably going to win the Selke this season (well deserved) and his offensive numbers are hurt by system and the Kings terrible PP, which obviously Kopi shoulders some of that blame.

I would actually like to see the Kings use Kopi on the point on the PP rather than the half wall. I know they got a couple of PP goals last night, but in thinking long term I think they need to overhaul the thing and having Kopitar on the point might work.

 

[Herby]

Geez Herb I was getting worried about you. Thanks for coming back to chastise us all again. On a side note, did you see the puck hit the netting or is the lighting that bad in the Joe?

I was on the complete opposite side of the ice, last thing I saw was Kronwall shooting and assumed it was out of play because one of the Kings defenders stopped skating and pointed to the netting. Then all hell broke loose.

The Joe is a dump, barely a step up from the Forum. I go to the place usually 2-3 times a year for different games. Can't wait until they build the new arena, whenever that happens.

 

[KINGS17]

Definitely not one of his better games, the offensive slumps are just an unfortunate part of his game, but even when he isn't putting up points Kopitar normally controls the flow of the game whenever he is on the ice, much like a Datsyuk and Toews do, last night I didn't really see that to much from Kopi. I'm still not to worried though, as you know I am very bullish on Kopitar, I still find him to be one of the best centers in the world, he is probably going to win the Selke this season (well deserved) and his offensive numbers are hurt by system and the Kings terrible PP, which obviously Kopi shoulders some of that blame.

I would actually like to see the Kings use Kopi on the point on the PP rather than the half wall. I know they got a couple of PP goals last night, but in thinking long term I think they need to overhaul the thing and having Kopitar on the point might work.

I agree regarding your assessment of where Kopitar should be on the power play. He needs to be placed in a position where he is forced to move his feet or shoot. He absolutely sucks on the half wall. He is not creative at all, and his mindset is not suited for making things happen from there.

I thought that he passed up shooting on a couple of good scoring opportunities in the slot last night. Right now, if I was Sutter I would bench him on the PP at the start of the next game and tell him when he starts shooting the puck he will get PP time again.

You can't rely on a PP to score goals when one of your most effective shooters seemingly refuses to shoot.

 

[BigKing]

Well, Richards played well so you aren't going to hear about his bad play from last night; however, it doesn't mean that the criticism of his play over the last month has been unwarranted. I love the guy but maybe try to save the snarky comments about those who criticize him until he strings together several good games, you know?

I'm not going to comment on the tying goal because nothing needs to be said that hasn't already. The thing I'm tired of, aside from not scoring and being incredibly boring, is this "turn the other cheek" mentality that has been instilled on this team. Clifford sits there last night and lets that little **** face wash him for an hour and just takes it. We've got Nolan not dropping the gloves and then nobody doing anything to Weise after he slewfoots the team's best player and then continues to troll the rest of the night. You've got Muzzin knowing he has guys coming after him with less than ten seconds to go in a decided game and he sits there and allows himself to be mugged and then nobody on the Kings responds as they should have when he is getting held by one guy and punched by another. Pardon me if I don't get all wet over Quick grandstanding a bit with the other's team goalie, much like I didn't in the WCF last season when Clifford got mugged and nobody did anything except for Bernier grandstanding at center ice.

This team is supposed to be big and tough: they are just big and boring at the moment. Teams have been hitting back lately and have found out that they can even take cheapshots without retribution. Best part is the "reward" for turning the other cheek is a powerplay in which LA doesn't score and the other team gains momentum.

It's obvious from Sutter's frequent comments that amount to "we are what we are...we play honest...3-2 or 2-1...not high, not low" that adjustments are not made save for bottom six shuffling and that this team's defense will be good enough to win the Cup again. Well **** man, the '12 team scored a lot of goals on the run into the playoffs and on the way to the Cup to go along with Quick playing out of his mind. Prior to the Carter trade, they are on the outside looking in even while Quick is on his way to a Vezina nomination. This current team is better than the '12 pre-Carter era obviously because it at least has Carter to pop the 1 goal a game they score now, but it isn't going to happen for us again with the current makeup of the roster. Being #1 in defense is awesome when you are also at least Top-15 in offense, but it doesn't mean as much when you make your opponent the #2 or sometimes #1 defense in the league for that one night.

The CAP is screwing this team right now which is frustrating since CAP SPACE was one of the Top-5 players on this team up until last year. That means that Sutter has to commit to Toffoli and Vey and not be so quick to yank them if the team loses a game unless it is in his contract that a loss means he has to insert one of our Bottom-6 non-scorers in favor of sitting a rookie. Try Toffoli with Kopitar and slide Carter back with Richards. Insert Vey for Fraser. Playing these kids isn't going to result in the Kings giving up two more goals a game no matter how much the anti-kid crows on here wants to mention Toffoli being weak on the boards sometimes or Vey having the odd shift where he looks lost in the defensive zone.

The team needs more offensive talent. They have some kids who have that ability and enough defensive only players falling out of their ***** to cover for any defensive weaknesses of said kids. The Ducks have 4th line guys in Bonino and Beleskey that don't have the pedigree as Toffoli and Vey have: do yourself a favor and check out there total games played at the AHL level and then check out how Bonino would be #2 on this team in goals scored and how Beleskey is at a near .5 point per game clip while helping their power play hit at a 40% clip during their current streak. Players can develop at the NHL level in a 4th line role. If our 4th line isn't going to stick up for themselves or enforce cheapshots against, then go ahead and put some offensive talent out there and score more than a goal a game. I laughed at the Ducks lack of toughness last year but they finished ahead of LA in the standings and are going to do it again this year while LA ices a tough 4th line that doesn't act tough while the entire team hopes to score two goals the entire game. I know the big dogs on this team have to play better, but this team will be hard-pressed to win in the current NHL when you feel that two of your four lines have little-to-no-chance of scoring.

 

[Herby]

Maybe his "experiment" is over, the players got the message and things will revert to the best use of the players he has, that being Carter with Richards and Kopitar with Brown and Williams.

Does defense mean anything to you?

Have you seen the goals-against numbers when Carter and Richards play together at even-strength?

The Kings are a defensive oriented team, and those numbers likely played a large part in why that duo was split up.

 

[KINGS17]

Well, Richards played well so you aren't going to hear about his bad play from last night; however, it doesn't mean that the criticism of his play over the last month has been unwarranted. I love the guy but maybe try to save the snarky comments about those who criticize him until he strings together several good games, you know?

I'm not going to comment on the tying goal because nothing needs to be said that hasn't already. The thing I'm tired of, aside from not scoring and being incredibly boring, is this "turn the other cheek" mentality that has been instilled on this team. Clifford sits there last night and lets that little **** face wash him for an hour and just takes it. We've got Nolan not dropping the gloves and then nobody doing anything to Weise after he slewfoots the team's best player and then continues to troll the rest of the night. You've got Muzzin knowing he has guys coming after him with less than ten seconds to go in a decided game and he sits there and allows himself to be mugged and then nobody on the Kings responds as they should have when he is getting held by one guy and punched by another. Pardon me if I don't get all wet over Quick grandstanding a bit with the other's team goalie, much like I didn't in the WCF last season when Clifford got mugged and nobody did anything except for Bernier grandstanding at center ice.

This team is supposed to be big and tough: they are just big and boring at the moment. Teams have been hitting back lately and have found out that they can even take cheapshots without retribution. Best part is the "reward" for turning the other cheek is a powerplay in which LA doesn't score and the other team gains momentum.

It's obvious from Sutter's frequent comments that amount to "we are what we are...we play honest...3-2 or 2-1...not high, not low" that adjustments are not made save for bottom six shuffling and that this team's defense will be good enough to win the Cup again. Well **** man, the '12 team scored a lot of goals on the run into the playoffs and on the way to the Cup to go along with Quick playing out of his mind. Prior to the Carter trade, they are on the outside looking in even while Quick is on his way to a Vezina nomination. This current team is better than the '12 pre-Carter era obviously because it at least has Carter to pop the 1 goal a game they score now, but it isn't going to happen for us again with the current makeup of the roster. Being #1 in defense is awesome when you are also at least Top-15 in offense, but it doesn't mean as much when you make your opponent the #2 or sometimes #1 defense in the league for that one night.

The CAP is screwing this team right now which is frustrating since CAP SPACE was one of the Top-5 players on this team up until last year. That means that Sutter has to commit to Toffoli and Vey and not be so quick to yank them if the team loses a game unless it is in his contract that a loss means he has to insert one of our Bottom-6 non-scorers in favor of sitting a rookie. Try Toffoli with Kopitar and slide Carter back with Richards. Insert Vey for Fraser. Playing these kids isn't going to result in the Kings giving up two more goals a game no matter how much the anti-kid crows on here wants to mention Toffoli being weak on the boards sometimes or Vey having the odd shift where he looks lost in the defensive zone.

The team needs more offensive talent. They have some kids who have that ability and enough defensive only players falling out of their ***** to cover for any defensive weaknesses of said kids. The Ducks have 4th line guys in Bonino and Beleskey that don't have the pedigree as Toffoli and Vey have: do yourself a favor and check out there total games played at the AHL level and then check out how Bonino would be #2 on this team in goals scored and how Beleskey is at a near .5 point per game clip while helping their power play hit at a 40% clip during their current streak. Players can develop at the NHL level in a 4th line role. If our 4th line isn't going to stick up for themselves or enforce cheapshots against, then go ahead and put some offensive talent out there and score more than a goal a game. I laughed at the Ducks lack of toughness last year but they finished ahead of LA in the standings and are going to do it again this year while LA ices a tough 4th line that doesn't act tough while the entire team hopes to score two goals the entire game. I know the big dogs on this team have to play better, but this team will be hard-pressed to win in the current NHL when you feel that two of your four lines have little-to-no-chance of scoring.

I definitely understand where you are coming from, but when you have:

King - Kopitar - Carter
Brown - Stoll - Williams
???? - Richards - Toffoli

you should have 3 scoring lines. The fact that the Kings didn't can be laid right at the feet of Kopitar and Richards.

 

[Herby]

The Kings will need three lines capable of scoring to beat Anaheim and Chicago. The lines K17 listed give the Kings the best chance to do that.

 

[Raccoon Jesus]

Leaving the last exchange as-is because there's obviously some discussion to be had out of it as well, but consider everyone duly warned about snarky personal call-outs. I'm getting sick of this "I told you so" **** permeating every thread. You can hold people accountable for their opinions without animosity.

We all know the team is struggling in various ways and venting is one thing but to start bringing it as an attack against other posters is when you're crossing the line.

Carry on.

 

[SFKingshomer]

I definitely understand where you are coming from, but when you have:

King - Kopitar - Carter
Brown - Stoll - Williams
???? - Richards - Toffoli

you should have 3 scoring lines. The fact that the Kings didn't can be laid right at the feet of Kopitar and Richards.

Tlusty could give that 3rd line some speed.

 

[KINGS17]

Tlusty could give that 3rd line some speed.

Yeah, he could. I think Tlusty is one of the guys you and I, and others batted around on a list of "lesser knowns" a couple of weeks ago. A deal for Tlusty would be more of a Dean-like move. If I remember correctly TG likes Tlusty's game.

I'm not sold on Moulson.

 

[SFKingshomer]

Yeah, he could. I think Tlusty is one of the guys you and I, and others batted around on a list of "lesser knowns" a couple of weeks ago. A deal for Tlusty would be more of a Dean-like move. If I remember correctly TG likes Tlusty's game.

I'm not sold on Moulson.

I'd be ok with Moulson if it didn't cost big time assets. Kulemin, Raymond, Tlusty would all be upgrades that wouldn't cost Pearson or Toffoli.

 

[Butch 19]

Wow. You were able to parlay a blown call into your continuing grandstanding that we should be able to improve our team a la 2012 when Jeff Carter was pining away to get moved out of hell and we still had cap space to bring him in.

Now there is neither. There is no top-flite player out there on the trade blocks that we can afford under the salary cap without chucking our core.

Accept it now. This is the team we are going with to the dance. For better or worse.

this is true ^^^^

When the playoffs start, expect 1-0 and 2-1 games for most games.

Plenty of pressure and angst, nothing new to Kings fans (expect with Quick they actually have a chance to win the games).

 

[KINGS17]

I'd be ok with Moulson if it didn't cost big time assets. Kulemin, Raymond, Tlusty would all be upgrades that wouldn't cost Pearson or Toffoli.

Actually kind of prefer Tlusty due to his combination of size (if what he is listed as is correct) and speed. Don't know if he is available, but if he is it might be worth giving up one of Pearson or Vey to get him. At only 25 years of age, Tlusty is still fairly young.

 

[SFKingshomer]

Actually kind of prefer Tlusty due to his combination of size (if what he is listed as is correct) and speed. Don't know if he is available, but if he is it might be worth giving up one of Pearson or Vey to get him. At only 25 years of age, Tlusty is still fairly young.

Canes are looking for center depth so Vey may make some sense

 

[HansH]

Any goal, no matter how scored should be completely reviewable.

This. A million times this. Do like the NFL and review every scoring play.

Get.
It.
RIGHT.

 

[Martyros]

The refs making had gestures of what happened with the puck was actually more hilarious than counting the goal itself.

Obviously you didn't see where the puck went...

 

[MsMeow]

I hope they can use last night's non-call as a catalyst. Also, it is an absolute treat watching Quick and Doughty game in and game out. When they are both on, they have no equal, and they are on a lot of the time.

 

[HansH]

Nine games, fifteen days. Maybe this can piss the players off enough to carry some fire through the stretch before the break. Please?

 

[jml87]

You guys are HILARIOUS.

The guy plays like total garbage for weeks, and finally scores a goal and even more amazingly isn't on the ice for any goals against and ofcourse I get singled out by the people who became Kings fans on June 23, 2011 and would be Panthers fans if MR were traded there tomorrow.

I don't even know why I even give a response to people like Mswoof, but if you are wondering I attended the game last night and just returned home, I said so in the GDT. But keep convincing yourself that I wasn't around last night because Mike Richards did something productive for the first time in weeks.

BTW, still waiting for anyone to defend the guys season this year, all you Flyer fans who will be calling me out. Why hasn't he produced without Carter this season, why is he so bad defensively? Maybe instead of coming in here after one game to get your kick in on me, defend your Messiah in the other thread, or this thread?

I didn't say anything about Richards in this thread but as a former flyers fan, I'm glad you think my loyalty is so thin. I've explained why I changed fandoms, which is deeper than simply Mike Richards was traded, and yes, I went to the Kings because of Richards but that doesn't mean I'm switching if he goes somewhere else. I might like his new team, but I also am not going to stop liking the Kings management, their players, and their overall approach. Although, that's the same reason why I don't think that they won't trade Richards. They are loyal to their guys at this point, almost to a fault.

Secondly, I've tried to defend Richards in other threads and said that even though everyone seems to think he is having a **** season, he's second on the team in points, and spent the majority of those games to start the season with Toffoli and not Carter. 32 games until he went on his slump. Even though, I think he's been better since the new year, I will include those games and that would be 16 games. So a good chunk but still only half as many games as when he was rolling. So how has he had a bad season? A bad month, yes, but not a bad season.

Whatever, it doesn't matter at this point if he's gotten it together again. It's not just him, it's the whole team that has trouble scoring.

 

[TheSentinel]

Nine games, fifteen days. Maybe this can piss the players off enough to carry some fire through the stretch before the break. Please?

This and if they can, bank a few off the safety netting since apparently it's legal to do so.