GDT: #49 - 01/23/18 | rangers @ ducks | 10:00 - MSG PLUS

[mrhockey193195]

But isn't this identical to what happened in Vancouver. Got to the show stayed high in the standings for a while never won team gave up on him and he got run out of town. I mean the guys got m.o. here

Absolutely. But imagine had we kept Torts (who I also loved). We would not have had the same success in 13-14. All coaches have shelf lives (authoritarian coaches like Torts have shorter ones).

I honestly think that AV's "free flowing" game was an energetic boost to the Rangers that first (and second?) season. Now, it's gotten old. Man-to-man D sucks. Relying on counter-attack hockey only and no possession game to drive offense has gotten old (other teams know our M.O.).

I don't think it's just AV not being able to win, it's deeper than that (and I'd argue that statement isn't quite true...3 OT games with the Kings could have gone either way).

 

[Siddi]

Remember that year we swept the west coast road trip? Member?

I even member the cleaning truck meme we created. Good days of past...

 

[Nopuckluck]

I hear Ron Duguay interviewed in LA yesterday while on the road trip to be the new Miss America pageant host

 

[aufheben]

Watching highlights of the NYR vs Buf game 6 (Lost at home but one of the most rabid crowds I've ever heard), some 2011, 2012, 2014 highlights. The energy those guys had, the personalities, the comraderie. They fought and died for each other out there and they overachieved as a result. Now?

I despise what AV has done to this team. There's no energy, no enthusiasm, nothing to look forward to. I feel nothing about this game or this season. He's destroyed what this franchise worked so hard to become: A true contender and team. T

They went from what, 100+ games without choking away a 3rd period lead, coming back from 3-1 down in series to now they blow series and leads like it's trendy. They went from getting in other team's faces, laying hits, blocking shots to now they just play grabass and cede the blue line. At least grabner gets more breakaways in this system.

Overachieved?

As someone who regularly gets up at 5:00 am and baby that is rapidly approaching its due date... there is zero chance I am going to give up some precious sleep to watch this debacle.

Never now, could be the greatest Ranger game ever played.

 

[Hi ImHFNYR]

Agree with this. I'll just make one point though, it was AV's team that came back from down 3-1. If you're saying you don't like what' he's done as his tenure has gone on (i.e., particularly in the last few seasons), then I agree with you 100%. I will always respect and love AV for what he did in 13-14 and 14-15 though.

He hasn't adapted since then. His shelf life has expired.

I truly believe they only came back because of the guys on the team, not bc of the coaching at all

I distinctly remember being of the opinion that AV's coaching was largely responsible for them being down 3-1 in the first place. I have disliked him for a long, long time

 

[mrhockey193195]

I truly believe they only came back because of the guys on the team, not bc of the coaching at all

I distinctly remember being of the opinion that AV's coaching was largely responsible for them being down 3-1 in the first place. I have disliked him for a long, long time

Very fair. We all hate to say it, but Marty's mom's passing was a huge rallying point and one of the biggest reasons we came back (that, and Hank played, what...the greatest game of his career?...in game 7).

BUT...at the same time, I remember earlier that season watching the Rangers (in the 4-1 win against LA, early in the year...right before or right after the blowout to SJ) and saying "WOW...this team is playing offense, being creative! I can get behind this new coach and system after the Torts years!". So funny how I hate the system and lack of offense now. But I don't feel like AV as coach and the system in place was ALWAYS this bad. Things have gotten much worse the last couple years...right?

 

[Machinehead]

As someone who regularly gets up at 5:00 am and baby that is rapidly approaching its due date... there is zero chance I am going to give up some precious sleep to watch this debacle.

I'm on winter break and probably staying up anyway, and I'm still not watching it.

 

[Hi ImHFNYR]

one of the best posts this season. No emotions from this group at all.

One of the best posts I’ve ever read

Thank you. High praise but I don't deserve it. I'm just frustrated, disenchanted and nostalgic

 

[ZiGOODejad]

Thank you. High praise but I don't deserve it. I'm just frustrated, disenchanted and nostalgic

you and me both.

 

[Machinehead]

Watching highlights of the NYR vs Buf game 6 (Lost at home but one of the most rabid crowds I've ever heard), some 2011, 2012, 2014 highlights. The energy those guys had, the personalities, the comraderie. They fought and died for each other out there and they overachieved as a result. Now?

I despise what AV has done to this team. There's no energy, no enthusiasm, nothing to look forward to. I feel nothing about this game or this season. He's destroyed what this franchise worked so hard to become: A true contender and team. T

They went from what, 100+ games without choking away a 3rd period lead, coming back from 3-1 down in series to now they blow series and leads like it's trendy. They went from getting in other team's faces, laying hits, blocking shots to now they just play grabass and cede the blue line. At least grabner gets more breakaways in this system.

I don't necessarily disagree with the premise (aside from the fact that this team could never block another shot and I'd be ecstatic) but I would like to point out that the correlation between being a quality team, and perceived emotion, is uncanny.

 

[Nopuckluck]

Overachieved?

Never now, could be the greatest Ranger game ever played.

Yes overachieved. As far as greatest Ranger game ever played I GUARANTEE it won’t be tonight. That my friend was game 6 vs the Devils 1994. The guarantee. Followed closely by game 7 Stanley Cup Finals 1994!

 

[mrhockey193195]

Thank you. High praise but I don't deserve it. I'm just frustrated, disenchanted and nostalgic

On the topic of being nostalgic and your post - 05-06 and 06-07 will always be so memorable to me. Consider that I became a true fan in 96-97 as a kid...and then had to experience seven seasons of absolute misery, to the point (note, I'm a teenager in the early-to-mid 2000s) that I never thought I'd see the Rangers make the playoffs in my lifetime.

I was at the "playoff clinching" game in 06 against Philly. We clinched by making it to OT, and ended up winning the game in a shootout. Got emotional. We're in the playoffs! I never thought I'd see this day!

That series in 07 vs. Buffalo was my first true playoff heartbreak. I remember the series against Philly in 07, but I was too young to care. The loss to the Devils in 06 hurt (my brother is a die hard Devils fan, so that makes the rivalry even more bitter for me), but I was still in the clouds because of that season. In 07, we had expectations, and we could have won that series. Game 5 will forever be etched into my heart and my mind. Game 6, I had a bad feeling going in, and only really got pumped up when Nylander scored late. But that series hurts...only rivaled by the finals in 14 and the ECFs in 12 and 15.

Back to your post though...those teams were EXCITING. And PASSIONATE. That was Rangers hockey at its finest. We had skill (Jagr, Nylander, Straka, Prucha), we had a HOF homegrown superstar (Hank), we had grit (Straka again, Cally, Betts, Ortmeyer, etc.). I will always miss those years.

 

[mrhockey193195]

I don't necessarily disagree with the premise (aside from the fact that this team could never block another shot and I'd be ecstatic) but I would like to point out that the correlation between being a quality team, and perceived emotion, is uncanny.

Not trying to be an ass, but asking seriously - were you a fan during the dark ages? The reason I ask...to this day, a blocked shot/a Rangers sacrificing their body is something I stand up and cheer for.

Objectively? I know it's low-success, it causes injuries, breaks down defensive positioning and structure, etc. But in my heart? I remember watching this team for 7 years where nobody gave a f***ing damn about the result of each game. Nobody sacrificed, nobody played defense, nobody gave a shit. No blocked shots.

The culture changed in 06, but moreso in 07 when Danny G and Cally (note - I recognize they fell apart as players later, but this is the biggest reason I defended them ad nauseum for years despite what my brain - and smarter posters on HFNYR - told me) joined the team and gave their bodies to this team. They made plays on a regular basis that brought tears to my eyes. I will always love them for that.

 

[aufheben]

The next season they won the Presidents' Trophy and were a couple of goals way from a consecutive SCF appearance. It wasn't overachieving. That garbage Sens team that made the ECF then came crashing back down to earth 6 months later, that is overachieving.

 

[Lays]

On the topic of being nostalgic and your post - 05-06 and 06-07 will always be so memorable to me. Consider that I became a true fan in 96-97 as a kid...and then had to experience seven seasons of absolute misery, to the point (note, I'm a teenager now) that I never thought I'd see the Rangers make the playoffs in my lifetime.

I was at the "playoff clinching" game in 06 against Philly. We clinched by making it to OT, and ended up winning the game in a shootout. Got emotional. We're in the playoffs! I never thought I'd see this day!

That series in 07 vs. Buffalo was my first true playoff heartbreak. I remember the series against Philly in 07, but I was too young to care. The loss to the Devils in 06 hurt (my brother is a die hard Devils fan, so that makes the rivalry even more bitter for me), but I was still in the clouds because of that season. In 07, we had expectations, and we could have won that series. Game 5 will forever be etched into my heart and my mind. Game 6, I had a bad feeling going in, and only really got pumped up when Nylander scored late. But that series hurts...only rivaled by the finals in 14 and the ECFs in 12 and 15.

Back to your post though...those teams were EXCITING. And PASSIONATE. That was Rangers hockey at its finest. We had skill (Jagr, Nylander, Straka, Prucha), we had a HOF homegrown superstar (Hank), we had grit (Straka again, Cally, Betts, Ortmeyer, etc.). I will always miss those years.

I was born in 2000 but I will always remember cheering them on with my dad, maybe it’s nostalgia or maybe it’s because I don’t remember too much from back then but those teams were my favorites with guys like Ortmeyer and Nylander who me and my dad loved, I still watch some highlights of our Ranger teams from back then with all those guys and it feels nice until you look at a GDT and see a lame ass lineup with AV as head coach and a team pairs 0 passion aside from Fast and Zucc

 

[Machinehead]

Not trying to be an ass, but asking seriously - were you a fan during the dark ages? The reason I ask...to this day, a blocked shot/a Rangers sacrificing their body is something I stand up and cheer for.

Objectively? I know it's low-success, it causes injuries, breaks down defensive positioning and structure, etc. But in my heart? I remember watching this team for 7 years where nobody gave a ****ing damn about the result of each game. Nobody sacrificed, nobody played defense, nobody gave a ****. No blocked shots.

The culture changed in 06, but moreso in 07 when Danny G and Cally (note - I recognize they fell apart as players later, but this is the biggest reason I defended them ad nauseum for years despite what my brain - and smarter posters on HFNYR - told me) joined the team and gave their bodies to this team. They made plays on a regular basis that brought tears to my eyes. I will always love them for that.

Not answering the dark ages question anymore.

A blocked shot is admirable for the toughness, absolutely, but it's a stupid hockey play.

It makes it harder for your goaltender to stop easy shots, takes you out of the play, and causes injury.

You wanna help your team? Block passes across the royal road and stop shots from being taken in the first place.

The culture didn't change because Callahan started breaking his bones to stop shots that Hank has a .999 on. The culture changed because we stopped being an ass hockey team.

 

[Fvital92]

1am game for me. No way I'm making the effort to stay awake to watch this garbage.

 

[mrhockey193195]

I was born in 2000...

Holy smokes! Time flies...I though I was always the "young guy" on these boards!

I love that you have an attachment to those teams from early in your life. As I alluded to above, I can absolutely relate. The early years as a hockey fan will shape your perspective going forward.

I caution you though! You've never experience the Rangers as a horrible team for years and years and years. It will happen again. It will test your patiences life nothing else. But it will make the victories after all the sweeter.

 

[mrhockey193195]

Not answering the dark ages question anymore.

A blocked shot is admirable for the toughness, absolutely, but it's a stupid hockey play.

It makes it harder for your goaltender to stop easy shots, takes you out of the play, and causes injury.

You wanna help your team? Block passes across the royal road and stop shots from being taken in the first place.

The culture didn't change because Callahan started breaking his bones to stop shots that Hank has a .999 on. The culture changed because we stopped being an ass hockey team.

I can't disagree with anything you said, you're spot on. All I'm saying is that my early years as a hockey fan shaped the way my (subjective) eyes saw the game. Watching a Ranger actually give a shit? I'd never seen anything like it before. It was incredible.

It's hard to break those associations, despite what logic tells you.

I imagine Ortmeyer to a lot of young fans is a mucker with no puck skills and a horrible possession player. Ortmeyer to me was a sign of better things to come, "a new hope" to be cliché. All about perspective, I guess. Or...I'm just flat out wrong, as usual

 

[Samuel Culper III]

Watching highlights of the NYR vs Buf game 6 (Lost at home but one of the most rabid crowds I've ever heard), some 2011, 2012, 2014 highlights. The energy those guys had, the personalities, the comraderie. They fought and died for each other out there and they overachieved as a result. Now?

I despise what AV has done to this team. There's no energy, no enthusiasm, nothing to look forward to. I feel nothing about this game or this season. He's destroyed what this franchise worked so hard to become: A true contender and team. T

They went from what, 100+ games without choking away a 3rd period lead, coming back from 3-1 down in series to now they blow series and leads like it's trendy. They went from getting in other team's faces, laying hits, blocking shots to now they just play grabass and cede the blue line. At least grabner gets more breakaways in this system.

Nailed it. I remember a game several years ago so vividly where, I believe we were trailing but working on the come back and either down 1 or tied, against the Pens and Dubi and Cally worked their tails off, broke out on the two on one and had a sweet five and go finished by Cally to either tie it up or take the lead. It was a regular season game but it was against the Pens, in the playoff race and the energy and passion and excitement was through the roof. The comraderie was through the roof. Torts May have gone stale and lost the team, but what he had done prior and instilled in that team was the glory days for post lockout Rangers. The Rangers of today are a sorry facsimile of that team. Miller puts up more points than Dubi, but as far as being that gritty, fired up guy he’s luke warm.

Hayes, Vesey, Kreider, Miller, Skjei, McDonagh... all these “blue collar” homegrown kids, not the most talented, but dammit they work hard... kinda like when it was Stepan, Dubi, Cally, Staal, Girardi, Anisimov, Hagelin... except those guys were 10x the TEAM that our current crew is. The Rangers still have this reputation of like “hard nosed” American kids like Kreider and Miller and they’re a team with “jam”. I don’t know how they still have that reputation. Those days are so long gone. This team has no jam.

 

[Machinehead]

I can't disagree with anything you said, you're spot on. All I'm saying is that my early years as a hockey fan shaped the way my (subjective) eyes saw the game. Watching a Ranger actually give a ****? I'd never seen anything like it before. It was incredible.

It's hard to break those associations, despite what logic tells you.

I imagine Ortmeyer to a lot of young fans is a mucker with no puck skills and a horrible possession player. Ortmeyer to me was a sign of better things to come, "a new hope" to be cliché. All about perspective, I guess. Or...I'm just flat out wrong, as usual

I get that, but nobody is ever going to look at a 31-51 team and say they gave a shit. Nobody is going to call a Cup winner soft. The point I was making is that those perceptions have everything to do with winning.

This team has been f***ed since the start of the 15-16 season but it's an issue now because they might actually miss the playoffs.

I liked Ortmeyer. He was good defensively.

 

[Hi ImHFNYR]

The next season they won the Presidents' Trophy and were a couple of goals way from a consecutive SCF appearance. It wasn't overachieving. That garbage Sens team that made the ECF then came crashing back down to earth 6 months later, that is overachieving.

I'm sorry i just dont care. I'm not being dismissive of you, I just literally can't bring myself to care about this potential discussion. I disagree but idc

 

[Samuel Culper III]

Agree with this. I'll just make one point though, it was AV's team that came back from down 3-1. If you're saying you don't like what' he's done as his tenure has gone on (i.e., particularly in the last few seasons), then I agree with you 100%. I will always respect and love AV for what he did in 13-14 and 14-15 though.

He hasn't adapted since then. His shelf life has expired.

While this is accurate I actually believe some of the credit for AV’s early success goes to Torts. What happened, in my humble opinion, is that Torts instilled a philosophy in the locker room. Even when Torts lost the room and eventually was chased out, that philosophy lingered. It was deeply, deeply drilled into the core players. When AV took over they NEEDED a new voice and a new style but he had success with his crappy system because, in those early days, it was still drilled into the lineup nearly top to bottom that you never give up on the play, you sacrifice the body, you lay out to block the shot, etc. As guys like G and Staal’s games disintegrated and more core guys were move out, and AV was here longer, the Torts philosophy was purged and now we have “pure AV”, rather than “AV + Torts’ mentality” and it’s trash.

 

[Samuel Culper III]

I truly believe they only came back because of the guys on the team, not bc of the coaching at all

I distinctly remember being of the opinion that AV's coaching was largely responsible for them being down 3-1 in the first place. I have disliked him for a long, long time

I agree. I felt the same way. I feel like I have been bitching about AV to my wife and father-in-law (biggest hockey fans in the family) for a damn decade already. He wore out on me early.

 

[aufheben]

I'm sorry i just dont care. I'm not being dismissive of you, I just literally can't bring myself to care about this potential discussion. I disagree but idc

You brought it up?