GDT: #48 | Red Wings at Flyers | Tuesday, January 21, 2025 | 7:00 PM | NBCSP, 93.3 FM

[ybnvs]

Disagree. I know there's some of you who just talk about tanking and all that and some of you have done it for years and you won't convince me to buy into that bs. Go talk to Buffalo fans about how great tanking works. It doesn't.

Where did I talk about tanking? I'm sorry you disagree so heavily with a couple posters on here you then irrationally assume anyone else who posts on HFFlyers must think exactly like the few you disagree with!

As far as the PR goes I never pay attention to that.

Oh okay. Well, back under Fletcher we were hearing the same spun narrative about culture and the greatness of the locker room. It was impossible to miss and nauseating to stomach.

Could have been worse, he could have said Philly doesn't have palm trees.

Okay. He flat out said he wasn't shopping Risto. There's no reason to take it any way other than fact unless Risto actually gets moved. I take words at face value. Just like I take salutes at face value.

 

[MJL66]

Disagree. I know there's some of you who just talk about tanking and all that and some of you have done it for years and you won't convince me to buy into that bs. Go talk to Buffalo fans about how great tanking works. It doesn't.

As far as the PR goes I never pay attention to that. The Briere presser was total bs but it's what all those GMs do. Could have been worse, he could have said Philly doesn't have palm trees. What I look at is what I see on the ice. How they play. Their emotional levels. Their effort levels. Whether they quit or not. These are the things you see that tell you about the culture. It is currently very different from the Fletcher era.

I think there are solid positive signs. The team is more fun to watch lately and as long as they keep moving forward and get better every year I'm fine with it. Would I like it to go faster? Sure, who wouldn't? But as long as it gets better and better it's all good.

The statements you read repeatedly that really are not intelligent similar to your statement of "Go talk to Buffalo fans about how great tanking works. It doesn't", are really fascinating. For one, to refute that position, doesn't take an ounce of hockey knowledge. It just takes common sense. The statement you made is the absence of common sense. For one, there is no single approach in all of sports that is foolproof, that works every time. It all requires execution. You bring up asking Buffalo fans. How about we ask Pittsburgh, Colorado, Chicago and TB fans if tanking works. Surely it's safe to assume that those fans will say it does. Now we'll get to the hockey part
What it's about is what approach has the best odds, which works at a higher rate to obtain elite level talent? Which is the key to building an elite team capable of winning the Cup. That's clear. Secondly and this is most important for you to learn. Tanking is just the first step. It's phase 1. Once you draft elite level talent, you have to develop it. You then have to build the team around that elite talent. Have the right mix of players and coaching. You have to execute the plan! It's not as if you tank and voila! LOL. Buffalo's issue isn't that tanking doesn't work. It's that they haven't done a good job after tanking. They haven't executed well. Those who are against tanking who repeatedly bring up Buffalo aren't thinking clearly.

 

[Beef Invictus]

The statements you read repeatedly that really are not intelligent similar to your statement of "Go talk to Buffalo fans about how great tanking works. It doesn't", are really fascinating. For one, to refute that position, doesn't take an ounce of hockey knowledge. It just takes common sense. The statement you made is the absence of common sense. For one, there is no single approach in all of sports that is foolproof, that works every time. It all requires execution. You bring up asking Buffalo fans. How about we ask Pittsburgh, Colorado, Chicago and TB fans if tanking works. Surely it's safe to assume that those fans will say it does. Now we'll get to the hockey part
What it's about is what approach has the best odds, which works at a higher rate to obtain elite level talent? Which is the key to building an elite team capable of winning the Cup. That's clear. Secondly and this is most important for you to learn. Tanking is just the first step. It's phase 1. Once you draft elite level talent, you have to develop it. You then have to build the team around that elite talent. Have the right mix of players and coaching. You have to execute the plan! It's not as if you tank and voila! LOL. Buffalo's issue isn't that tanking doesn't work. It's that they haven't done a good job after tanking. They haven't executed well. Those who are against tanking who repeatedly bring up Buffalo aren't thinking clearly.

This is why my step 1 is firing everyone. We know the guys running the team can't execute.

 

[MJL66]

This is why my step 1 is firing everyone. We know the guys running the team can't execute.

What has to be changed is the ideology that this franchise is infested with. It doesn't seem to matter who they hire to make the decisions, it's the same thing over and over. The refusal to do what it takes. To try and compete every year. This disease they have of focusing on culture and the Flyers way. Until that changes, nothing will

 

[Beef Invictus]

What has to be changed is the ideology that this franchise is infested with. It doesn't seem to matter who they hire to make the decisions, it's the same thing over and over. The refusal to do what it takes. To try and compete every year. This disease they have of focusing on culture and the Flyers way. Until that changes, nothing will

Yep. They keep hiring to match the same values and ways of doing things, set from On High. The team needs a deep clean and fully fresh start devoid of a single bit of existing influence.

 

[Boocowski]

Go talk to Pittsburgh, Washington, TB, Colorado, LA, and Chicago fans to find out that it does work.

Washington is doing exactly what we are doing and succeeding. They did not tank in any way.

You want to go back in time you need to count all the failures along with the successes and also the differences. You think there is a simple formula. Just strip away everything, be the worst for 4-5 years and then magically win a cup. If it was that easy every single GM would do it. Very naive.

The statements you read repeatedly that really are not intelligent similar to your statement of "Go talk to Buffalo fans about how great tanking works. It doesn't", are really fascinating. For one, to refute that position, doesn't take an ounce of hockey knowledge. It just takes common sense. The statement you made is the absence of common sense. For one, there is no single approach in all of sports that is foolproof, that works every time. It all requires execution. You bring up asking Buffalo fans. How about we ask Pittsburgh, Colorado, Chicago and TB fans if tanking works. Surely it's safe to assume that those fans will say it does. Now we'll get to the hockey part
What it's about is what approach has the best odds, which works at a higher rate to obtain elite level talent? Which is the key to building an elite team capable of winning the Cup. That's clear. Secondly and this is most important for you to learn. Tanking is just the first step. It's phase 1. Once you draft elite level talent, you have to develop it. You then have to build the team around that elite talent. Have the right mix of players and coaching. You have to execute the plan! It's not as if you tank and voila! LOL. Buffalo's issue isn't that tanking doesn't work. It's that they haven't done a good job after tanking. They haven't executed well. Those who are against tanking who repeatedly bring up Buffalo aren't thinking clearly.

Some of what you say is true and nobody would argue differently. You need to draft well for example. But nice condescension, it definitely makes me take you more seriously.

 

[Beef Invictus]

Washington is doing exactly what we are doing and succeeding. They did not tank in any way.

You want to go back in time you need to count all the failures along with the successes and also the differences. You think there is a simple formula. Just strip away everything, be the worst for 4-5 years and then magically win a cup. If it was that easy every single GM would do it. Very naive.


Some of what you say is true and nobody would argue differently. You need to draft well for example. But nice condescension, it definitely makes me take you more seriously.

Washington tanked. How do you think they got Ovechkin? He didn't appear as if by magic.

The Blues are the only team that has won following anything similar to what the Flyers are trying. No other team since expansion. It's not viable, it is the hardest path possible, and the Flyers are less competent than Buffalo. Buffalo ripped the Flyers off, for god's sake. Hence why presenting them as something to be scared of is hilarious. They're an upgrade.

Buffalo has won more games than the Flyers so far this decade.

 

[MJL66]

Some of what you say is true and nobody would argue differently. You need to draft well for example. But nice condescension, it definitely makes me take you more seriously.

You're mistaken and confusing giving you a dose of reality with condescension

 

[Boocowski]

Washington tanked. How do you think they got Ovechkin? He didn't appear as if by magic.

The Blues are the only team that has won following anything similar to what the Flyers are trying. No other team since expansion. It's not viable, it is the hardest path possible, and the Flyers are less competent than Buffalo. Buffalo ripped the Flyers off, for god's sake. Hence why presenting them as something to be scared of is hilarious. They're an upgrade.

Buffalo has won more games than the Flyers so far this decade.

Not Washington back then Washington now, first place in the league. They did it right with a mixture and the retention of a strong culture. Same as what I think Flyers are trying. Flyers should have added a goalie though

 

[Beef Invictus]

Not Washington back then Washington now, first place in the league. They did it right with a mixture and the retention of a strong culture. Same as what I think Flyers are trying. Flyers should have added a goalie though

The Capitals have the greatest goal scorer in the history of the sport who is scoring at an insane pace still. They got him by tanking, not by culturing. They built their culture via winning. They did all their winning by skilling.

I also remember when everyone insisted that they would be incapable of winning with OV, who was labeled cultural rot. Turns out that was bullshit, because culture is bullshit. Not only did they win with him, they won with a bunch of substance abuse issues on board too. Great culture lol.

 

[ybnvs]

Buffalo ripped the Flyers off,

The Flyers really need to try to recoup lost assets from this trade and re-signing after giving up a 1st (14th, aka a #1 OA pick for the Flyers), 2nd, 2nd, 7th, Ghost, Hagg.

But on a positive note, since the Cates line was put together, the Flyers still suck balls!

 

[freakydallas13]

Yet again the anti-tanking crew is reverting to strawman and "but but but the Sabres!" arguments.

Everytime I have to point out that 2 things are true:

1) Winning a cup is easier the more high end hockey talent your team has.

2) The higher you draft in the first round, the more likely you are to acquire high end hockey talent.

Until you can prove one of those wrong, all your doing is saying "yeah I want the Flyers to continually chose the least optimal way to try and win the cup". By all means, argue for the team to do this, but also admit that you value "not tanking" more than you do actually winning a cup one day.

 

[Beef Invictus]

Yet again the anti-tanking crew is reverting to strawman and "but but but the Sabres!" arguments.

Everytime I have to point out that 2 things are true:

1) Winning a cup is easier the more high end hockey talent your team has.

2) The higher you draft in the first round, the more likely you are to acquire high end hockey talent.

Until you can prove one of those wrong, all your doing is saying "yeah I want the Flyers to continually chose the least optimal way to try and win the cup". By all means, argue for the team to do this, but also admit that you value "not tanking" more than you do actually winning a cup one day.

3) The Sabres have been the better team this decade.

 

[Curufinwe]

The Flyers are actually 0.003 ahead! I demand a retraction.

26	Philadelphia Flyers

.472

​

27	Buffalo Sabres

.469​

 

[CerpinTaxt]

Washington is doing exactly what we are doing and succeeding. They did not tank in any way.

Just stop boocowski you're wrong all the time. The Caps absolutely tanked the year prior to drafting Ovechkin and they took advantage of the Flyers sending a marginal Dman for a pick to draft their best dman since he's been on the team in Carlson. They've also been acquiring talent cast off by other teams that have definitely played well for them since being acquired.

The Flyers don't put themselves in position to draft top tier talent, nor do they draft top talent (outlier is Michkov) when their picks come up. They also don't trade for, waiver pick up, nor sign top talent. The Flyers instead sign the likes of Seelers, hathaways, and deslaurier and they trade for Johnson and Drysdale. So no the Flyers and Caps in no way operate in any similar manner. If they did the Caps wouldn't be the more successful of the teams for the past 14 years