Post-Game Talk: #48 | FLYERS (H) vs. Devils (A) | Sunday, Apr. 25, 2021 | Flyers win 4-3 (3-2 in SO)

[SolidSnakeUS]

Provorov's performance in the shootout is a great example of why you shouldn't pick your shooters based on who had a good game, or who played a lot (Provy had 29:01 ice time).

Hayes became the 6th Flyer to score a SO goal under AV. Laughton should have scored by couldn't elevate the puck enough.

You mean specific Flyer (only 5 other Flyers players have ever scored a goal in the SO) or 6th goal ever in the SO by a Flyer under AV?

 

[deadhead]

Every team that has won has had 7x guys who were top 6 fwds though in terms of production pace wise... and basically every team has had a good, 2-way, 25+ point 4C too. Your depth really does matter.

As for Laughton... yeh... he would be a #8 fwd on most cup winners. A guy who is a 30-35 point player. If you dont have 9 guys who can get 30 points it is quite hard to win.

And tbh the list of Dmen there... no team really has more than 1x legit #1. Though yeh, most have 3x top pairing level guys.

Yeah, but when you say top six forwards in terms of production, you're talking 30-35 ES points for players 5 & 6 in many cases.
Regular season production:

Playoff TOI (forwards > 15 minutes, D > 20):
TB: [68g]
F: Kucherov (60), Palat (32), Point (51), Cirelli (37), Killorn (36), Gourde (21), Goodrow (23), Coleman (25), T Johnson (24)

Blues: [Schwartz was dinged, normally 40+ scorer]
F: ROR (52), Schenn (42), Tarasenko (46), Schwartz (31), Perron (32), Sundqvist (28), Bozak (30), Steen (20)

Caps:
F: Ovechkin (56), Backstrom (45), Kuznetsov (52), Oshie (29), Wilson (33), Eller (32), Stephenson (18)

Pens:
F: Crosby (64), Malkin (49), Kessel (40), Guentzel (40g/30), Bonino (25), Rust (27) [Kunitz (24), Cullen (25), Hornqvist (27)]

Pens:
F: Crosby (61), Kessel (44), Malkin (57g/31), Hornqvist (36), Bonino (26), Hagelin (37g/25) [Kunitz (34)]

CHI:
F: Toews (46), Kane (61g/42), Saad (42), Hossa (43), Richards (30), Sharp (29), Shaw (20), Kruger (17)

 

[EdmFlyersfan]

so you are saying you are ok with giroux not showing up and expecting the younger players to carry him? maybe they should be the leaders and not giroux.

are you telling me if crosby didnt show up in playoff games, they would win cups? best players are suppose to show up, that's what they are paid to do. for some reason you just dont care about them not showing up because of your favoritism and expecting everyone else to do it for them, you are not going to win championships that way.

Sakic and Yzerman were considered playoff chokers by the media and fans before a change in management and a solid supporting cast was given to them...so your comments are irrelevant as is your hockey knowledge.

 

[Appleyard]

Yeah, but when you say top six forwards in terms of production, you're talking 30-35 ES points for players 5 & 6 in many cases.
Regular season production:

Playoff TOI (forwards > 15 minutes, D > 20):
TB: [68g]
F: Kucherov (60), Palat (32), Point (51), Cirelli (37), Killorn (36), Gourde (21), Goodrow (23), Coleman (25), T Johnson (24)

Blues: [Schwartz was dinged, normally 40+ scorer]
F: ROR (52), Schenn (42), Tarasenko (46), Schwartz (31), Perron (32), Sundqvist (28), Bozak (30), Steen (20)

Caps:
F: Ovechkin (56), Backstrom (45), Kuznetsov (52), Oshie (29), Wilson (33), Eller (32), Stephenson (18)

Pens:
F: Crosby (64), Malkin (49), Kessel (40), Guentzel (40g/30), Bonino (25), Rust (27) [Kunitz (24), Cullen (25), Hornqvist (27)]

Pens:
F: Crosby (61), Kessel (44), Malkin (57g/31), Hornqvist (36), Bonino (26), Hagelin (37g/25) [Kunitz (34)]

CHI:
F: Toews (46), Kane (61g/42), Saad (42), Hossa (43), Richards (30), Sharp (29), Shaw (20), Kruger (17)

Look at their per game. Their per minute. Ofc players miss games...

Each team that has won has had like 7+ 40 point players and 9+ 30 point players... when you look at that across the league, where 40+ points makes you a top 6 fwd vs league scoring...

umber of fwds who paced for 40+:

2015: Chicago: 7x
2016: Pittsburgh: 7x
2017: Pittsburgh: 7x
2018: Washington: 7x
2019: St. Louis: 7x
2020: Tampa Bay: 7x

I mean... it is not *actually* a major problem for the Flyers tbh. The top ~7-8 fwds is the least of the teams problems this year.

I think in isolation... if you gave this teams top 6-7 fwds one of the top teams bottom six+D+G groups they could be a contender.

Even this year they have 7x fwds at that. Last year they had 8. But before that from 2012-2019 they just never really had the fwd scoring depth.

 

[MiamiScreamingEagles]

There were indications pre-game that a youngster or two could see action. The opponent, the necessity, the opportunity is there for at least one new addition.

Excuse the self-quote...but this appears now to be confirmed

 

[kudymen]

Release the Zamulator

#Hansoned

 

[deadhead]

Look at their per game. Their per minute. Ofc players miss games...

Each team that has won has had like 7+ 40 point players and 9+ 30 point players... when you look at that across the league, where 40+ points makes you a top 6 fwd vs league scoring...

umber of fwds who paced for 40+:

2015: Chicago: 7x
2016: Pittsburgh: 7x
2017: Pittsburgh: 7x
2018: Washington: 7x
2019: St. Louis: 7x
2020: Tampa Bay: 7x

I mean... it is not *actually* a major problem for the Flyers tbh. The top ~7-8 fwds is the least of the teams problems this year.

I think in isolation... if you gave this teams top 6-7 fwds one of the top teams bottom six+D+G groups they could be a contender.

Even this year they have 7x fwds at that. Last year they had 8. But before that from 2012-2019 they just never really had the fwd scoring depth.

I only look at ES scoring.

I see both PP and PK as units, because individual scoring is so dependent on usage.
Also, you use PP players differently, a liability at ES can be an asset on the PP b/c he doesn't have much in the way of defensive responsibilities.

Reason I focused on those getting 15+ minutes in the playoffs is these are the "core" players who either play a lot of ES minutes, or at least 3rd line ES minutes plus a lot of ST play. The rest of the forwards can be a mix of forecheckers, defensive players who PK and sheltered offensive forwards who play on the PP.

Only point I'm making is you don't need ridiculous forward talent, a couple top scorers (50+ ES), a couple good scorers (40+ ES), then a few guys in the 30+ range and the rest 15-20 or so.

Ignoring this season and looking forward:
Flyers don't have an elite scorer, Couts, JVR, Voracek, G are more in the 40+ range at this point in their careers.
But Frost, TK, Allison, Lindblom, Farabee have the potential to break into that 40+ group.
Hayes is in that 30-40 group.
Laughton, Laczynski are more in the 25-30 point range.
Patrick? Who knows. Foerster? When he's ready. JOB and Brink? We'll see.

But that's more than enough forward scoring if they can play good enough both ways to hold their own against top lines (on the road, HCs will match their best lines against our worst). Which is why guys like Hagelin hang around for decade long careers, he was scoring in the 30s from 23-27, but even scoring in the 20s was good enough to play on 3rd lines well into his 30s.

 

[Flyerfan4life]

how long before Zam busts under AV ?

place ur bets...

@Captain Dave Poulin

 

[Captain Dave Poulin]

how long before Zam busts under AV ?

place ur bets...

@Captain Dave Poulin

One game.

 

[Remarkablr]

Provorov in the shootout? I never want to see that again ever.

Just more ridiculous treatment of this guy.

I have never seen this favored treatment of a Flyer in my life.

I just cannot understand why he is treated as if he is the new Bobby Orr.

 

[TheKingPin]

This game took way too long to end.

 

[Angry Hockey Dad]

Giroux is a monster and f*** anyone who says he is the problem

 

[freakydallas13]

Giroux is the farthest thing from the problem. I only want to trade him because I imagine he would bring back a haul and I have zero confidence this team will be competitive before he ages out of being elite

 

[Flybynite]

Giroux is the farthest thing from the problem. I only want to trade him because I imagine he would bring back a haul and I have zero confidence this team will be competitive before he ages out of being elite

Honestly, that's kind of where I was 2 years ago. I'm not sure the return you get for a turning next season 34 year old Claude Giroux would be much of a 'haul'. Especially with him also likely determining where he's willing to go(if at all) to reduce the opportunity to have a bidding war many teams.

Of course the other counter to that is. Do you have any faith in who has been running the Flyers or currently running the Flyers to have actually gotten a return for Giroux that actually makes the Flyers better? If the answer to that is 'no.' then the argument to just enjoy Giroux playing out his career with the Flyers until there is actually a decent management is also acceptable.

 

[Beef Invictus]

I still cannot imagine how anyone can watch the way this team plays and what they are trying to do on the ice. And watching it failing brutally. And think YEP AV KNOWS BEST.

 

[Starat327]

I still cannot imagine how anyone can watch the way this team plays and what they are trying to do on the ice. And watching it failing brutally. And think YEP AV KNOWS BEST.

I'll tweet whatever you tell me to if you pay my bills. Just saying.

 

[LegionOfDoom91]

I still cannot imagine how anyone can watch the way this team plays and what they are trying to do on the ice. And watching it failing brutally. And think YEP AV KNOWS BEST.

They’re going to trade some players over AV just to fire him at a later date.

 

[Beef Invictus]

They’re going to trade some players over AV just to fire him at a later date.

Probably players that don't get replaced, either. The march to Leafs-status is inexorable.

 

[BackToTheBrierePatch]

It’s Meltzer. Who cares. You know he’s going to say shit that irritates people. Just don’t follow him anymore. Don’t give the loser attention

 

[BackToTheBrierePatch]

They’re going to trade some players over AV just to fire him at a later date.

they should do both honestly. But that is most likely not to happen

 

[Here4ThaLids]

Excellent idea for neo-Cooperalls!

 

[Here4ThaLids]

I still cannot imagine how anyone can watch the way this team plays and what they are trying to do on the ice. And watching it failing brutally. And think YEP AV KNOWS BEST.

It would be nice for someone here with a nagging twitter account to ask Bill what he thinks AV actually contributes as a coach, explicitly. Not what happened while he was the coach, but like Office Space -- what does he actually do here?

Guaranteed the response begins with either a scoff or some form of intangible.

 

[BackToTheBrierePatch]

Good for Zamula. Hope he makes the most of it

 

[Magua]

It would be nice for someone here with a nagging twitter account to ask Bill what he thinks AV actually contributes as a coach, explicitly. Not what happened while he was the coach, but like Office Space -- what does he actually do here?

Guaranteed the response begins with either a scoff or some form of intangible.

A couple months ago he called Vigneault a master at in-game adjustments.

What do you even say to that?

 

[LegionOfDoom91]

they should do both honestly. But that is most likely not to happen

It is what it is but I don’t think there’s this magical quick fix out there that can elevate this team into cup contention. Giroux, Couturier, Voracek, JVR, etc. aren’t getting any younger. You could possibly even lose one of the latter two in the expansion draft which is what it is but they still have to be replaced on the ice. Frankly I also don’t think the young guys are good enough as we hoped. Couturier’s about to get really expensive with a deal that goes into his late 30’s which isn’t really team friendly. That have to essentially make hay on that early both individually & team wise to make it worth it.

They can make the playoffs & probably would have with average goaltending this year. But you’re in that same boat of maybe making the playoffs, maybe winning a playoff of being you’re more likely upside. That does nothing for me anymore with a decade essentially of that ceiling & floor of just missing completely picking in the early teens.