GDT: #47 ⋅ FLA @ ANA ⋅ 7:00 PM PST (Game is on Tuesday 01/21)

[The Midnight Burrito]

I'm not sure any coach would make this team particularly good, but I do think it's pretty clear that Cronin is not getting the most out of the team as a whole. But even that I could live with if more of the young guys were showing progress. If the team sucked, but the kids were showing steady flashes, one could at least make the argument that development is being prioritized over winning right now. Unfortunately it seems we're getting neither.

But what's the option right now? I don't like the idea of an interim guy for a young team; some of these guys will be on their 3rd coach in less than 2 seasons. That's not what you want young players to deal with either.

Yet even if we wait until the offseason to fire Cronin, is this team as currently built going to have the pick of the litter when it comes to coaches? Most years at least one playoff team ends up with a vacancy after a postseason flameout. An in demand coach will typically choose a job with immediate potential, or at least one where the rebuild is closer to ending and the team is knocking on the door. Even if a guy likes the Ducks' building blocks, if it were me I'd plan on being the guy who comes along in like 3 years to help the team take the "next step" after whoever gets hired now is likely fired. Whoever is hired now is unfortunately not likely to be the one to reap the rewards of a rebuild even if it's successful. To last until guys like Carlsson and Sennecke are in their prime, a coach would have to last 7+ years, which tends to be uncommon.

My baseline is that there’s no point in switching coaches midseason unless someone obviously better is available. But I worry that he’s actively harming development, not just hindering but making the kids worse, permanently. Can’t prove that and I doubt PV would ever buy that anyway. Shitty situation.

By the way, this is the problem with tanking, tank crew. Losing and losing and losing got us Leo and Mac and all the rest, but it also got us Cronin. Takes skill to pull out of a tailspin, not just balls. Is that our GM? I dunno.

 

[Hockey Duckie]

No I was genuinely trying to understand your point because you twice led off with complimenting/affirming Lacombe and his progression which you've done in at least four responses to my complaints about Cronin the past few days. I think everyone is in agreement that Lacombe is on the right track and every time I discuss the team's failures in developing the kids I always qualify it by saying that Lacombe is an exception.

Your point in the last post, at least as I understand it, is that our defense group is young and inexperienced so of course there's going to be defensive woes. In this response, you're claiming that the roster is still under par and being built and that I'm placing expectations too high. I don't think I am.

We've been told repeatedly that the organizations primary and overriding focus in both youth development and changing the culture and approach of this team as a whole is better defense and defense first. We've been told that Greg can't and won't change the offensive systems because doing so would compromise the defensive systems he's been building up. With this roster do I expect this team to be one of the defensive stalwarts of this league that opposing offenses universally loathe to play against? Not really. But do I expect better than damn near league worst defense? Yeah and I think it's fair to. That was the point of my reposting the defensive metrics as they stand.

I didn't post them to one up you. I posted them two days ago to make the exact same point. Our offense is league worst because of this emphasis and impetus on defense first play. With that being such a heavy focus, we should be doing better than just barely better than the last place team in the league (San Jose), especially given that this commitment to defense first has resulted in neglect and inability to change the offense which is, again, dead last league wide. San Jose may have the worst defensive metrics in the league, barely worse than us, but their offense isn't suffering as badly as ours.

I don't buy that roster inexperience and suboptimal players is enough to account for how poorly our defense is performing. The league is littered with examples of depth players and middle 6ers who are adequately or more than adequately prepared to play proper defensive systems and to win defensive puck battles. Hell, the Habs team that made the cup finals in a year that they wouldn't have even made the playoffs with where they finished in the standings (got in through the play in) is a good example. They really didn't have the talent to go as far as they did. They went on that run playing an effective neutral zone trap and a hybrid collapse/1 man heavy puck press defensive system that suffocated other teams' offense enough that Price standing on his head the few times teams managed to penetrate and create good chances, it helped them win enough games to advance to the finals. That wasn't a good team and it wasn't a good lineup. It's a team that got coached and bought into a defense first approach that actually performed defensively because that's what they were prepared to do by their coaches.

Again, am I expecting this team to shut down and suffocate offense perfectly night after night? No. But with so much emphasis on defensive play, I expect to be better than the bottom of the league with San Jose when it comes to these defensive metrics. Cronin's systems and coaching are a failure in all respects. Not just offensive output.

You do you to CYA your hypocrite posting ... ie accusing me going heavy in response and then you going overtly ballistic.

I have no idea why you take offense when LaCombe AND Helleson are mentioned, but you're taking great offense to it like it's life or death. I correctly pointed out we're developing defense because of LaCombe and Helleson, but the CHL guys will need more time to develop to their NCAA teammates. Here is the OG quote that I responded to:

this organization doesn't know how to teach defense and actively discourages offense. literally the only thing this org can do is develop goalies that can cover for the lack of off/def development.

Here's my response.

Teaching OFD's how to play defense at the NHL level will take years. LaCombe and Helleson look good playing defense b/c that was their forte in college for several years. LaCombe was an OFD in high school and spent four seasons in college learning to play defense. Minty, Zell, and Luneau are known for their high scoring offense in the CHL to earn defensive player of the year, which is like winning the Norris such that offensive defensemen are acknowledge for their high end productions.

I'm not down on our CHL OFD's and expect these growing pains for a couple more years. Maybe get a new PK coach that can help improve defensive play. We actually had a good defensive assistant coach, but he got cancer in Stothers. He beat cancer, but he was promoted to a less stressful role as a special advisor.

But if we want a more defensive developing youth D to show up sooner, then hope we win the lottery to select two-way LD Schaefer.

That isn't going heavy. That is giving positive feedback that we can also develop d-men and goalies. Thus, implying forward is where we are screwing up.

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Positivity is what caused you to go BATSHIT CRAZY?! LaCombe and Helleson being bright spots are not what you need to hear in order for you to remain in your devasted mood. And that's why you went with your hypocrite posting. You aren't even cognizant of your obsessive devastation and are still trying to coax yourself that you're right.

Going batshit crazy over positivity is a new low.

 

[Hockey Duckie]

My baseline is that there’s no point in switching coaches midseason unless someone obviously better is available. But I worry that he’s actively harming development, not just hindering but making the kids worse, permanently. Can’t prove that and I doubt PV would ever buy that anyway. Shitty situation.

By the way, this is the problem with tanking, tank crew. Losing and losing and losing got us Leo and Mac and all the rest, but it also got us Cronin. Takes skill to pull out of a tailspin, not just balls. Is that our GM? I dunno.

Murray Rebuild draft before Verbeek took over.

• 2019 (8th worth record)
  • #9 OA C Zegras
  • LW Tracey
  • LD LaCombe
  • LD Thrun

• 2020 (5th worst record)
  • #6 OARD Drysdale
  • RW Perreault
  • RW Colangelo
  • RD Moore (still in NCAA)
  • C/LW Galimov (rumored to be signed for 2025-26 season)

• 2021 (2nd worst record)
  • #3 OA C Mac
  • LD Zellweger
  • RW Pastujov
  • LD Hinds

Murray was already hyped up about all three NCAA d-men in LaCombe, Thrun, and Moore in the summer of 2021.

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Winning Ways (before Verbeek blew up the team)

We were on our way up with winning in 2021-22. That summer, GM Murray brought along PK coach Stothers with PP coaches Geoff Ward and Newell Brown. There was a lot of good foundations laid, but the team was lacking NHL talent depth. Most of the talent depth were still in juniors or NCAA. When injuries started to accrue, then our play would suffer. Still, the jump from 2nd worst record to being in a playoff spot at All-Star break in Feb is a significant upgrade.

Verbeek inherited a team that was 3rd in the Pacific at All-Star break when he was hired. Sat on his hands knowing Manson went on IR and would miss 12 out 14 games before being traded away at the TDL. Then Verbeek blew the team up at the TDL. Fowler's workload became more difficult after the TDL as #1D, top PK D, and PP1 QB. The PP suffered.

PP coach Ward left the org after the season ended, for personal reasons.

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Verbeek's personnel and roster acquisitions have been putrid.

Verbeek truly believes he has constructed teams that would be vying for .500 or better each full season he has been here.

Verbeek's 2022-23 roster was abysmal such that we needed to overpay RD Klingberg $7 mil to get over the salary floor before the season started. We never replaced the physicality lost when we traded away Lindholm and Manson. Strome and Vatrano were terrible defensively... they still are three years later. That group landed us the worst record in the NHL with 58 points.

2023-24 brought along basically a new slew of physical d-men along with forwards Killorn and #2 pick overall C Carlsson. Oh... and Cronin. Low event offense and upgraded defense. Verbeek was happy with that outcome b/c of culture, work ethic, more platitudes, etc... Oh, hired Thompson as PK coach b/c Stothers was battling cancer. We finished with the 3rd worst record with 59 points.

2024-25 is more of the same from last season except our goalies have stood on their heads more this season. Hired Clune for the PP. Traded for Dumo in the summer. Swapped LD Fowler for RD Trouba via in-season trade.

In year 3 of the rebuild, the standouts on the the team are RW Terry, LD LaCombe, G Dostal, and G Gibson. All those guys are from the Murray drafted regime. That is pathetic of our GM that none of his veteran additions have stood out

 

[Hey234]

My baseline is that there’s no point in switching coaches midseason unless someone obviously better is available. But I worry that he’s actively harming development, not just hindering but making the kids worse, permanently. Can’t prove that and I doubt PV would ever buy that anyway. Shitty situation.

By the way, this is the problem with tanking, tank crew. Losing and losing and losing got us Leo and Mac and all the rest, but it also got us Cronin. Takes skill to pull out of a tailspin, not just balls. Is that our GM? I dunno.

My concern is that hearing the same wrong message over and over again has it's effects. It will take time to correct. I like the idea of a coach getting half a season to learn the team and start to unwind to damage. There must be a qualified coach with the experience needed to change this direction.