GDT: #46 | Flyers at Islanders | Thursday, January 16, 2025 | 7:30 PM | NBCSP, 97.5 FM

[Beef Invictus]

The season before he had 16 points in 51 games in Philly, the season after, 31 points in 74 games in Vancouver. 50 was his career high.

Ah yes truly those three seasons were the only ones he played. No others, ever, anywhere else. Truly.

 

[Beef Invictus]

Yeah man, I said those words exactly.

It is stunning as usual how defending Flyers Management requires nonstop bad faith and dishonesty

 

[GKJ]

 

[VladDrag]

You obviously think there's no need to tank if you think it's sufficient having a 35-goal, 27-assist, 62-point Cam Atkinson being a team's leading offensive player, and only 30-plus goal, 60+-point scorer. And the top-5 scorers being Atkinson, Wennberg, Saad, Foligno, and Gagner.

So that's good to know, at least.

Having the best analytical goalie season since the beginning of the RTSS datset collection helps out...But you've already hand-waived that being important.

 

[Curufinwe]

A real rebuke to the refs there

 

[BobbyClarkeFan16]

Some on here acting like beating the Islanders is a big deal. Let's face facts. This is a bad hockey club that's exacerbated by bad management and bad coaching. Nobody should be beating their chest about beating the Islanders and then talk about making the playoffs with average goaltending. This isn't a "competitive rebuild" either. They're throwing shit at a walk, seeing what sticks and planning from there. Wash, rinse, repeat. It's the same old same old.

 

[FlyerNutter]

Some on here acting like beating the Islanders is a big deal. Let's face facts. This is a bad hockey club that's exacerbated by bad management and bad coaching. Nobody should be beating their chest about beating the Islanders and then talk about making the playoffs with average goaltending. This isn't a "competitive rebuild" either. They're throwing shit at a walk, seeing what sticks and planning from there. Wash, rinse, repeat. It's the same old same old.

It’s sad to see what’s happened to Sorokin post back surgery.

He was a beaut before hand.

 

[Ghosts Beer]

"Glancing" contact with the shoulder, but a direct hit to the head and the head takes the brunt of the force.

Exactly how I described it.

 

[Ghosts Beer]

Having the best analytical goalie season since the beginning of the RTSS datset collection helps out...But you've already hand-waived that being important.

Oh, I "hand-waived" Bob's great season as being important did I.

Where? Please quote me where I allegedly indicated that Bob wasn't integral to their success.

What I said was that Bob's terrific season doesn't mean Torts doesn't deserve any credit for achieving a 50-win, 108-point season with that mediocre roster.

I mean, hell, the allegation was that Torts "did nothing" with a 108 point team and "failed" the Blue Jackets, as if Torts caused them to underachieve. When, in fact, they had multiple years of overachievement. That 50-win 108 point CBJ team was one of the biggest regular season overachievers in NHL history.

Takes more than just a Vezina winner to win 50 games with that roster.

 

[VladDrag]

Oh, I "hand-waived" Bob's great season as being important did I.

Where? Please quote me where I allegedly indicated that Bob wasn't integral to their success.

What I said was that Bob's terrific season doesn't mean Torts doesn't deserve any credit for achieving a 50-win, 108-point season with that mediocre roster.

I mean, hell, the allegation was that Torts "did nothing" with a 108 point team and "failed" the Blue Jackets, as if Torts caused them to underachieve. When, in fact, they had multiple years of overachievement. That 50-win 108 point CBJ team was one of the biggest regular season overachievers in NHL history.

Takes more than just a Vezina winner to win 50 games with that roster.

Torts deserves some credit, but the overwhelming majority of credit goes to the best single season a goalie has had in the analytical era.

 

[deadhead]

Torts deserves some credit, but the overwhelming majority of credit goes to the best single season a goalie has had in the analytical era.

Torts turned a 76 point team into a 96 point team, Bob turned that into a 108 point team.
Using my crude Sv% adjustment
2015-16: GF/GA 213/230
2016-17: GF/GA 247/223
2017-18: GF/GA 236/237
2018-19: GF/GA 256/234
2019-20: GF/GA 180/231 (Panarin, Duchene, Bob leave as FAs)

2021-22: GF/GA 210/274
2022-23: GF/GA 220/262
2023-24: GF/GA 231/220
2024-25: GF/GA 250/230 prorated (140/129)
Flyers have steadily improved (goalie normalized) since Torts arrived.

 

[VladDrag]

Torts turned a 76 point team into a 96 point team, Bob turned that into a 108 point team.
Using my crude Sv% adjustment
2015-16: GF/GA 213/230
2016-17: GF/GA 247/223
2017-18: GF/GA 236/237
2018-19: GF/GA 256/234
2019-20: GF/GA 180/231 (Panarin, Duchene, Bob leave as FAs)

2021-22: GF/GA 210/274
2022-23: GF/GA 220/262
2023-24: GF/GA 231/220
2024-25: GF/GA 250/230 prorated (140/129)
Flyers have steadily improved (goalie normalized) since Torts arrived.

In 2015-2106, Bob was a replacement level goaltender on an average team. They were able to get quality shots, but couldn’t score. Their defense was slightly worse than average and had bad goaltending. Their play was better than a 76 point team, but they were sunk by bad goaltending and bad finishing.

in 16-17, they were slightly worse offensively, but finished better, and extremely similar defensively, but had the amazing goaltending.

Again, Torts deserves credit, but they weren’t a 76-point team the season before they were an 80-85 point team. Bob turned them into the 100+ point season.

 

[Ghosts Beer]

Torts deserves some credit, but the overwhelming majority of credit goes to the best single season a goalie has had in the analytical era.

Do you think "a failure" and "didn't do anything with a 108 point team" are fair ways to describe Torts' tenure in Columbus?

 

[deadhead]

They were an 80-85 point team that improve to a 95-100 point team sans Bob's outlier season.

As the Rangers show, a good goalie can screw up a rebuild by fooling a GM into thinking his job is done.
Then when the goalie has an offseason, opps.

Compare to Florida
2021-22: 337/247
2022-23: 288/264
2023-24: 265/239
2024-25: 260/234 (146/131)
Pretty much the same team last three years, last year Bob was on a tear all season and the POs.
This season he's been below average.

 

[VladDrag]

Do you think "a failure" and "didn't do anything with a 108 point team" are fair ways to describe Torts' tenure in Columbus?

It really depends on what the expectations were at the time of the hire., if the expectations were to have multiple runs in the playoffs, then yes. But I don’t think the failure would be his sole fault.

 

[deadhead]

It really depends on what the expectations were at the time of the hire., if the expectations were to have multiple runs in the playoffs, then yes. But I don’t think the failure would be his sole fault.

The GM deserves most of the blame, and I think it's one reason Torts has been adamant about the rebuild "taking longer than my contract." Lower expectations so the team can be patient and not get pressured into bad moves.

CBJ GM gets fooled by an outlier season, trades for Panarin, then trades for Duchene at the TDL, and DuClair, then Bob, Panarin, Duchene and Duclair leave. Let Karlsson go to Vegas to protect a veteran contract. Lack of vision, basically bet everything on a two year window.

Just because you make the playoffs or have an outlier season doesn't mean you're a SC contender.
Smart GMs are patient, keep building the team and wait until the team is truly competitive before making tweaks.

And smart GMs avoid TDL deals involving major assets, for everyone that works out, 2-3 fail, because you're bringing in a player who has to learn your system and develop chemistry with teammates in six weeks.