#43 wake up or trade him before 2020 season

[Discoverer]

Not when you have 14 contracts inked for next year and only have 7-10M in space to spend (depending on what the cap is).

That space assumes all the UFAs and RFAs walk.

Toronto Maple Leafs - CapFriendly - NHL Salary Caps

The middle tier is where the savings need to come from. Moving one ELC guy for another won't change the cap hit.

Moving the Stars is possible just not advised.

Moving Marleau.... is up to Marleau.

Assuming a cap at $83 million:

UFAs walk
Marner gets $11 million
Johnsson and Kapanen combine for something like $6 million
Backup goalie for $1 million
Rosen and Liljegren take the 5-6 D spots

Is anything there particularly optimistic to you? It seems reasonable, and at that point they're basically over the cap by Zaitsev's contract, and if they're lucky enough that Marleau retires and they move his cap hit somewhere else, they don't have to move anyone to make everything fit.

 

[Mr Hockey]

They will definitely need a replacement plan.
be
Unless he’s willing to sign a. Team friendly team at like 5x5 I think odds are he leaves as UFA. Having Nylander anchor his own scoring line seems to be the natural fit here

Matthews/Marner/Willie/Kappy will be in there prime and dominating, losing Kadri won't a be a big deal, IMO.

 

[Pookie]

Lol so it doesn't matter that you lied, because we still spend more. I say lied because no business minded person such as yourself would ever make such a gradeschool level mistake right?

What's 26.1 - 19? (subtracting the difference between Kadri's contract the 75th highest paid C (theoretically middle of the road 3C)

What's 24.35 -19? (90th highest paid C)

What's 23.5-19? (standard 900k elc)

If you're going to make the "we can't spend so much money on C's because other teams aren't, Kadri's gotta go" at least take the time to understand that based on the method of comparison you chose no savings from Kadri are going to be enough to bring us in line.

So not only was it a dishonest representation, the honest version doesn't even make a particularly strong point, and completely ignores that we would need to acquire one of those three options to replace him

c’mon man. Never lied.

Gave the method and treated all teams the same.

We have a cap crunch and Kadri is on the table of consideration.

 

[4thline]

c’mon man. Never lied.

Gave the method and treated all teams the same.

We have a cap crunch and Kadri is on the table of consideration.

Any method that projects the 2019-20 Cap hit of Point-Stamkos-Cirelli as 9.85 million is either gross ineptitude or deliberate misrepresentation.

We do have a cap crunch, and he is. But that doesn't change the above. Nor does it change that we could realize comparable cap savings by trading Zaitsev, or by trading and replacing 2 of Brown/Johnsson/KK with elc or comparable salary players. It will come down to which path yields better value in trade + which can be viably replaced. Finding a cost efficient replacement for Kadri will be tough.

 

[Pookie]

Assuming a cap at $83 million:

UFAs walk
Marner gets $11 million
Johnsson and Kapanen combine for something like $6 million
Backup goalie for $1 million
Rosen and Liljegren take the 5-6 D spots

Is anything there particularly optimistic to you? It seems reasonable, and at that point they're basically over the cap by Zaitsev's contract, and if they're lucky enough that Marleau retires and they move his cap hit somewhere else, they don't have to move anyone to make everything fit.

Couple thoughts:

1. You still have to an Ennis ELC replacement. Not hard. Just adds to the total.

2. Zaitsev and Kadri have the same 4.5M contract. This is the limited/pick your poison conundrum.

Which fetches more value in return?

We know Carolina was interested in Kadri. I don’t know anything about interest in Zaitsev

But definitely a choice. Just one of two choices.

Cheers

 

[Gary Nylund]

Kadri gives us the top 1-2-3 centres in the league. So yeah we are going to pay more for being the best. That is life. I would rather be strong at centre then anywhere else. Defense next. Then goalie. I write goalie last because outside of Roy and Brodeur not many others who could play strong every year on a big contract. Even Price has issues. He is likely still the best but too much in a goalie is really risky.

This. I have no problem at all allocating a huge chunk of our cap space to the centre position. I would even say we're fortunate to have centres that are so good that this is the case.

 

[Pookie]

Finding a cost efficient replacement for Kadri will be tough.

From a production to contract perspective. Not really

You aren’t looking to replace 2016 Kadri

You are looking to replace 2019-20 who is declining... but still a good player.

You might not get the offence but maybe you get a Penalty Kill specialist. Either way bottom six are for role players and pipeline development.


But the real bottom line...4.5M cap hit off the books circa Tampa 2016

 

[4thline]

From a production to contract perspective. Not really

But the real bottom line...4.5M cap hit off the books circa Tampa 2016

Completely and laughably out of touch.

The literal absolute most that can come off the books is 3.85 million, going with a league minimum level player as 3C...

Call it 3.5-3.6 if we go with an normal elc (where are we getting one of those if Brooks isn't ready?) or a standard 4C in the 3 spot.

Call it 1-2.5 if we go for a true 3C that's defensively responsible and capable of 30 points (options limited)

So one option that guts us completely, one option that either guts us completely or requires pulling an NHL ready 3C prospect out of our ass

Or one that saves us a limited amount of money, is a downgrade, and has limited options.

Definitely looks like the easiest road.

 

[moon111]

Think there's a mandate for Kadri to continue to develop his game. I criticized his play-making, he almost has the same amount of 1st assists as he did all last year. He was getting a 'Sideshow Bob' label that was hurting his reputation. That hit and suspension against Boston just cemented that. When it comes to the salary cap, despite Kadri having a modified No-Trade clause, I don't think it's unreasonable to question if trading Kadri is in the cards. Can the Leafs afford to do it? Could you manage to give three more minutes of ice-time between Tavares and Matthews? If you did that, the demands on the 3rd line center are down to 10, even-strength minutes per game. He has 38 more minutes on the power-play then Matthews this season. The bigger question might be, can the Leafs afford not to trade Kadri. Scoring can be conjured out of this line-up. The Leafs have guys on the fourth line with better point/60 then the top scorers on Montreal. With the cap situation,
does Kadri become what Jordan Staal became to Pittsburgh? The only way I see Kadri actually staying is if Patrick Marleau has already shook hands with Dubas on a pre-determined plan.

 

[Pookie]

Completely and laughably out of touch.

The literal absolute most that can come off the books is 3.85 million, going with a league minimum level player as 3C...

Call it 3.5-3.6 if we go with an normal elc (where are we getting one of those if Brooks isn't ready?) or a standard 4C in the 3 spot.

Call it 1-2.5 if we go for a true 3C that's defensively responsible and capable of 30 points (options limited)

So one option that guts us completely, one option that either guts us completely or requires pulling an NHL ready 3C prospect out of our ass

Or one that saves us a limited amount of money, is a downgrade, and has limited options.

Definitely looks like the easiest road.

Something is laughable....

 

[Pookie]

“Word around is that Leafs GM Kyle Dubas is looking for one more forward — possibly a centre who can also play the wing — and a depth defenceman. “

Feb 5, 2019 SIMMONS: Scouts and more scouts line up for Leafs and not so mighty Ducks

 

[4thline]

Something is laughable....

Care to weigh in on the rest? Which do you think happens- the league minimum 3C, the 4C quality 3C, the 3C ready ELC player out of our ass, or the downgrade that doesn't save us that much? (again none of which that save us 4.5 million)

I'm on record. I'd do Kadri for Faksa++ or Wallmark++ in a heartbeat. There are a handful of others, but unlikely they'd be available. There are options that make sense. That are desirable even. You've presented none.

What's your plan beyond "Saving money is a plausible reason to move Kadri"?

Last years cup winning 3C- 3.5 million
The two years before the 1.9 (under a smaller cap, current contract is 4.1)

On other top 5 teams (lowest paid of the 3), you have Cirelli on an ELC, then 5, 2.9, 1.9.
Where's this 4.5 million in savings coming from?

 

[wmark]

“Word around is that Leafs GM Kyle Dubas is looking for one more forward — possibly a centre who can also play the wing — and a depth defenceman. “

Feb 5, 2019 SIMMONS: Scouts and more scouts line up for Leafs and not so mighty Ducks

The same Simmons who said Phil Kessel visit's a certain hot dog vendor?

Great source.

 

[Mr Hockey]

The same Simmons who said Phil Kessel visit's a certain hot dog vendor?

Great source.

that was true

 

[JT AM da real deal]

that was true

Are you talking about Frankie on Bay St below car park entrance?

 

[Pookie]

Care to weigh in on the rest? Which do you think happens- the league minimum 3C, the 4C quality 3C, the 3C ready ELC player out of our ass, or the downgrade that doesn't save us that much? (again none of which that save us 4.5 million)

I'm on record. I'd do Kadri for Faksa++ or Wallmark++ in a heartbeat. There are a handful of others, but unlikely they'd be available. There are options that make sense. That are desirable even. You've presented none.

What's your plan beyond "Saving money is a plausible reason to move Kadri"?

Last years cup winning 3C- 3.5 million
The two years before the 1.9 (under a smaller cap, current contract is 4.1)

On other top 5 teams (lowest paid of the 3), you have Cirelli on an ELC, then 5, 2.9, 1.9.
Where's this 4.5 million in savings coming from?

I don’t play lotteries so I can’t predict which of your scenarios happens.

I’ve laid out the problem. Highlighted the possible solutions to the problem (ie trade Zaitsev, don’t sign Gardiner, etc).

I don’t think there is any point in wasting time on why Kadri being moved isn’t a consideration.

It is a consideration and it will play out.

 

[Pookie]

The same Simmons who said Phil Kessel visit's a certain hot dog vendor?

Great source.

I don’t know his source.... but:

“In a couple of recent appearances on Insider Trading on TSN and on the Bobcast, Bob McKenzie has discussed the idea that the Leafs are looking for a versatile forward who can play up or down the lineup as a centre or a wing. Rudely put: Par Lindholm, only better”

Kyle Dubas reportedly talked to LA about Kyle Clifford