GDT: #42 | Ducks at Flyers | Saturday, January 11, 2025 | 7:00 PM | NBCSP, 97.5 FM

[Hollywood Cannon]

@Striiker

 

[Beef Invictus]

Anaheim: Carlson (2), McTavish (3), Gauthier (5), Mintyukov (10).
And they have Zegras (9) on IR and Sennecke (3) who didn't make team Canada.
How many high picks before a team becomes decent?

Anaheim is both dirty and soft, a hard combo to pull off.
A lot of cheap shots, but they didn't win many battles.

Gauthier is a marshmallow, Flyers weren't headhunting, but they stripped him of the puck a few times, no fight along the boards, doesn't go to the net. He's got size, good speed but not that slick of a skater, good shot, but plays like a 180 lb forward. Compared to Foerster as a 22 year old rookie, there's no fight in this dog. He'll score with that shot, but not much else unless he develops some cojones.

Couts may be finished as a center, another game where he was a nonfactor, despite playing with Lycksell and Michkov. But you're not breaking up the Cates line, Frost with TK and Tippett looked great, so how do you put a third line together? Laughton - Poehling - Michkov?

Who wants to whine about keeping TK instead of getting a late 1st, 2nd and a "B" prospect?
Not only is he becoming an elite player, he's "our rat," similar to Marchand in that he bring energy and 'tude. And it rubs off, look at Brink hitting guys 30 lbs heavier.

Nice shutout for Ersson, when he's on and healthy he looks like a #1, but he's struggled with consistency and staying healthy. But they can afford to let him grow on the job.

Good point, team building is hard so the Flyers not even f***ing trying and setting up for three decades of abject failure is the only best path.

 

[deadhead]

They picked the guy who isn't very good at 5OA, immediately named him a core piece, and we're now taking victory laps that he doesn't have NHL star skills because he got traded for peanuts. A perfect summation of what it takes to be a Flyers fan in 2025.

Fletcher is gone, that high a pick had to be Fletcher, GMs in any sport call the shots on high picks. Because if you blow these picks, you're not going to be a GM for very long.
Unless of course you're Howie and find Hurts in the 3rd and dump Wentz for a 1st.

It was a weak draft, but I understand the seduction, Gauthier is a "talent" pick, on paper he has the skill package to be elite, size, speed, shot, can puck handle and pass - but I was told "intangibles" don't matter compared to talent. He's a good example of someone who excelled at lower levels but has to learn how to play in the NHL - but I don't see the compete needed. He lacks the skill of Jake, who could get away with being a big "finesse" forward. You'd think in a game like this pride would have driven him to show the fans how their FO screwed up - instead he was a nothing burger.

Now maybe he'll grow up, or the right HC can get through to him how to play NHL hockey.
Of course, you can say the same about Drysdale, maybe Shaw can get him to continue to improve and become more fundamentally sound on defense and more confident driving play on offense.

Maybe.

 

[Hollywood Cannon]

 

[JojoTheWhale]

Fletcher is gone, that high a pick had to be Fletcher, GMs in any sport call the shots on high picks. Because if you blow these picks, you're not going to be a GM for very long.
Unless of course you're Howie and find Hurts in the 3rd and dump Wentz for a 1st.

It was a weak draft, but I understand the seduction, Gauthier is a "talent" pick, on paper he has the skill package to be elite, size, speed, shot, can puck handle and pass - but I was told "intangibles" don't matter compared to talent. He's a good example of someone who excelled at lower levels but has to learn how to play in the NHL - but I don't see the compete needed. He lacks the skill of Jake, who could get away with being a big "finesse" forward. You'd think in a game like this pride would have driven him to show the fans how they're FO screwed up - instead he was a nothing burger.

Now maybe he'll grow up, or the right HC can get through to him how to play NHL hockey.
Of course, you can say the same about Drysdale, maybe Shaw can get him to continue to improve and become more fundamentally sound on defense and more confident driving play on offense.

Maybe.

alt.rec.NHL.Flyers.fanfic

I’d like to reiterate that my position is that intangibles cannot be why you pick someone high. They can disqualify you from doing so. Completely different discussions. But this guy was never that skilled. Bog standard mid 1st round talent.

Whoa. Well done. More of this please.

 

[deadhead]

The fans got into it, but I didn't see the Flyers taking runs at Gauthier, or trying to start trouble, other than TK jawing him at I think at the end of the 2nd period - but that's TK with almost anyone. Gauthier got hit a few times, because he had the puck and that's the way the Flyers play.

The dirty hits were from Anaheim, Gudas mugging Michkov, Vatrone mugging Sanheim I think, cross check on Seeler, and a few other dirty plays.

 

[Hollywood Cannon]

alt.rec.NHL.Flyers.fanfic

I’d like to reiterate that my position is that intangibles cannot be why you pick someone high. They can disqualify you from doing so. Completely different discussions. But this guy was never that skilled. Bog standard mid 1st round talent.



Whoa. Well done. More of this please.

When the “Worst Guy You Know” meme comes to life.

I’ll say that Tortorella besides the “I wouldn’t know him from a hole in the wall” comment has handled this entire Gauthier thing very well. The ripping of ASF for the Hayes stuff was the cherry on top.

At least someone in the building knows that the key to get that crowd is to build a team that is to be reckoned with and not with cheap parlor tricks.

Now whether Torts knows how to get that kind of team in the year 2025 is a whole other matter.

 

[Hollywood Cannon]

 

[FlyerNutter]

Fletcher the second GM now to go against the scouts wishes, and grab a bust of a top first rounder?

That poor scouting department. Always ignored.

 

[ponder719]

I don't say this often, but credit where due, that is exactly what the head coach should be saying, and thinking, in this situation. Now, if only we had a team worthy of crowds that hot for reasons other than "Kid no like us, kid BAD."

 

[deadhead]

alt.rec.NHL.Flyers.fanfic

I’d like to reiterate that my position is that intangibles cannot be why you pick someone high. They can disqualify you from doing so. Completely different discussions. But this guy was never that skilled. Bog standard mid 1st round talent.



Whoa. Well done. More of this please.

People really need to listen to his pressers instead of relying on preconceived opinions.
I've been surprised how calm, patient and reasonable Torts has been all season, given some of the idiots in the Philly press crew.
He's embraced rebuilding and accepts the growing pains that come with in.
Maybe it's just age teaching him patience.

 

[deadhead]

I’d like to reiterate that my position is that intangibles cannot be why you pick someone high. They can disqualify you from doing so. Completely different discussions. But this guy was never that skilled. Bog standard mid 1st round talent.

And I have to disagree. Intangibles won't make an average player into McDavid, but they can turn a good player into a very good player and the lack of intangibles can turn a top talent into a mediocrity.

Without a good work ethic, a player won't put the effort in the offseason to get stronger and faster, work on his shot, etc.
Without a high motor, a top talent will glide through too many shifts.
Without a high compete level, a star will disappear in the post-season.
And so on.

 

[JojoTheWhale]

And I have to disagree. Intangibles won't make an average player into McDavid, but they can turn a good player into a very good player and the lack of intangibles can turn a top talent into a mediocrity.

Without a good work ethic, a player won't put the effort in the offseason to get stronger and faster, work on his shot, etc.
Without a high motor, a top talent will glide through too many shifts.
Without a high compete level, a star will disappear in the post-season.
And so on.

Very few players get to the point where they can be seen as good pro prospects without being driven. What you're describing here is mostly filtered out already by their pre-draft careers.

There are exceptions of course. But I don't believe you or I or anyone else can reliably predict which ones those will be able to leverage this stuff into more than the sum of their parts when pitted against teams full of players who have both sides. The bar is so, so high.

 

[deadhead]

Very few players get to the point where they can be seen as good pro prospects without being driven. What you're describing here is mostly filtered out already by their pre-draft careers.

There are exceptions of course. But I don't believe you or I or anyone else can reliably predict which ones those will be able to leverage this stuff into more than the sum of their parts when pitted against teams full of players who have both sides. The bar is so, so high.

I disagree. At lower levels of competition, a lot of players get by with athleticism, they're bigger and/or quicker, better coordinated, etc. than their peers. So they stand out because of raw talent. Sometimes they're great athletes, sometimes they just physically matured before their peers.

As you get to the pro level in any sport, the talent gap between all but a few exceptional players is far narrower, and intangibles matter a lot more. At lower levels, you can compensate for low IQ or bad technique or poor fundamentals by outrunning (skating) the opposition, at higher levels you get exposed. Marvin Harrison is a good example, yes he was fast and agile, but what made him great was hard work, practicing his route tree over and over until he made every cut perfectly and was exactly the same place at the same time every time he ran that route. Without that work ethic he'd have still been a good WR, but not a great one.

 

[Danko]

I was entertained.

 

[JojoTheWhale]

I disagree. At lower levels of competition, a lot of players get by with athleticism, they're bigger and/or quicker, better coordinated, etc. than their peers. So they stand out because of raw talent. Sometimes they're great athletes, sometimes they just physically matured before their peers.

As you get to the pro level in any sport, the talent gap between all but a few exceptional players is far narrower, and intangibles matter a lot more. At lower levels, you can compensate for low IQ or bad technique or poor fundamentals by outrunning (skating) the opposition, at higher levels you get exposed. Marvin Harrison is a good example, yes he was fast and agile, but what made him great was hard work, practicing his route tree over and over until he made every cut perfectly and was exactly the same place at the same time every time he ran that route. Without that work ethic he'd have still been a good WR, but not a great one.

Running routes is an art. Go into the football thread every year around draft time and you’ll see me not caring about what polished WR archetypes run as long as they pass a reasonable minimum.

The rest of this is the fluff they write in HoF bios. Braylon Edwards is another first round WR famous for a world class work ethic. He went 3rd overall and spent almost every season of his career being solid but unspectacular. Hell, Harrison’s son was the “work ethic” guy this year. He’d be at best the 3rd WR taken in a redraft. Maybe 4th. You can pick out a guy from any angle and find a fit to your preferred narrative. No one uses it to predict with reliability.

 

[Shrike]

That was the most entertaining Flyers game I’ve seen in a long time.

The entire game was physical.

They ran Cutter the whole game.

They scored 6 goals & gave up 0.

Michkov had a goal. TK had 4 primary assists.

The crowd was absolutely electric & into it & chanting & booing all game. Loud as hell. Having a blast. A playoff atmosphere.

Everyone got their money’s worth & more.

And we have posters finding reasons to complain about it.

Well this hasn’t been the norm yet the media and some fans are talking like we’ve turned the corner and are looking good when in fact we have little cap room with a poor roster and a coach who preaches a style of hockey that the league is trying to faze out. Maybe we’ll get one or two more games like this before the end of the season. Have we played Chicago or Nashville yet? I don’t know. Who cares anyway, we’re two years from being a playoff contender. Two years right? That’s what we’re currently telling ourselves?

 

[Striiker]

@Striiker

It’s weird that they haven’t removed every “record” that’s from a year that starts with the number “1”. We all know they’re invalid anyways.

Puts Ghost as the fastest in Flyers history, which is where he belongs. GOAT shit.

 

[Beef Invictus]

 

[Beef Invictus]

People really need to listen to his pressers instead of relying on preconceived opinions.
I've been surprised how calm, patient and reasonable Torts has been all season, given some of the idiots in the Philly press crew.
He's embraced rebuilding and accepts the growing pains that come with in.
Maybe it's just age teaching him patience.

He's flat out said he's not rebuilding, he's trying to win. His actions say the same

 

[Ghosts Beer]

I like how you deleted all the important context. Did you do that on purpose?

The grousing is because of the nonsensical process the team followed. They were in the middle of trying to contend. In that context, they're f***ing stupid to not sign Giroux. Per their own goals.

The fact that they believed they were contending is a different problem. The team was not rebuilding, they were going for it. They also were failing at moves in line with that.

What "context" did I delete? A poster literally said earlier today that he'd trade TK for a 1st +. He didn't qualify it with anything. He flat-out said he'd trade TK for a 1st +.

And it makes me laugh. Because TK is the best Flyer since Giroux. A 27 year old in his prime with 50 points in 43 games!

Yet we have tons of posters who were mad we re-signed him, and who still want to trade him for a 1st + a little more.

Meanwhile, many posters are still mad the Flyers traded a 34 year old Giroux, with 2 months left on an expiring contract for..... a 1st plus Tippett (a 22 yr old former 10th overall pick).

And the Flyers weren't trying to "go for it" when they traded Giroux. They wouldn't have traded Giroux if they were really trying to "go for it."

Fletcher was dealing with an idiot delusional boss in Dave Scott who didn't know hockey and who thought the Flyers could miraculously make the playoffs, but in the press conferences everything Chuck said was that the Flyers desperately needed more high end talent, and the only way to get it was through the draft.

He used the word "retool" instead of "rebuild" because he was trying to save his job, but read between the lines, and look at the Giroux trade, and it was obvious he knew they weren't contenders. And he sure wasn't "going for it."

Yeah, Chuck didn't go for a complete tank, because again, he was trying to save his job, but, no, he wasn't "going for it." That's incredible hyperbole and disingenuous. The Giroux trade proves he wasn't "going for it." And it was the right move.

Chuck's problem was that he didn't have the balls to tell Dave Scott that he was being delusional and he tried to placate him to a degree by not being awful. Hence the DeAngelo trade that didn't work out. It took Torts to come in and completely tell it like it is. And they had to get Scott out and replace him with Hilferty.

 

[ponder719]

Have we played Chicago or Nashville yet?

Played both in November, beat both by 3-2 scores in OT. We play both again in March.

 

[Chicken N Raffls]

I feel like I've heard this story before.

Young guy is really good and so develops bad habits. After spending premium draft capital on this guy, because he is really good, we have to make sure he knows that he is not actually good after all. He has things to clean up in his game.

I mean, there is some truth to that, but come on. When do these standards get applied to the Haggs of the world?

 

[Ghosts Beer]

Well this hasn’t been the norm yet the media and some fans are talking like we’ve turned the corner and are looking good when in fact we have little cap room with a poor roster and a coach who preaches a style of hockey that the league is trying to faze out. Maybe we’ll get one or two more games like this before the end of the season. Have we played Chicago or Nashville yet? I don’t know. Who cares anyway, we’re two years from being a playoff contender. Two years right? That’s what we’re currently telling ourselves?

Who's saying they've turned the corner?

Some fans, not on this board, of course, are happy they just watched one of the most entertaining Flyers games in a long time and had a ton of fun.

Is it ok for them to have a little bit of joy in what largely has been a joyless season?

And, no, Torts does not preach a style of hockey that the league is trying to faze out.

Just last season they were top 5 in the NHL in chances created off the rush.

This year they are 8th in the NHL in xGF%.

Torts preaches "safe is death" and wants no hesitation in his players. He doesn't want them on their heels.

It's an aggressive style all over the ice. Hell, he even said Carolina, who this board fawns over, is how he wants the Flyers to play (minus, probably, the reckless long-distance shooting from everywhere).

They don't have a ton of talent, but it's not a dinosaur defensive system that's holding them back.

People just can't let go of their preconceived notions about Torts.

 

[Beef Invictus]

What "context" did I delete? A poster literally said earlier today that he'd trade TK for a 1st +. He didn't qualify it with anything. He flat-out said he'd trade TK for a 1st +.

You made it sound like people eager for a rebuild were mad they didn't sign an old guy. This is a lie. People were mad that the team had a goal and completely crapped themselves in pursuit of it.

That the goal was insane and stupid to begin with is a whole different issue.

And it makes me laugh. Because TK is the best Flyer since Giroux. A 27 year old in his prime with 50 points in 43 games!

Yet we have tons of posters who were mad we re-signed him, and who still want to trade him for a 1st + a little more.

Think about how old he is going to be when Michkov is in his prime. Think about the sheer amount of talent the team needs. Signing TK is not a wrong move. Trading him is not a wrong move. Considering team needs, trading him could well have been the least wrong move.

This isn't outrageous stuff. It's cold hard reality.

Meanwhile, many posters are still mad the Flyers traded a 34 year old Giroux, with 2 months left on an expiring contract for..... a 1st plus Tippett (a 22 yr old former 10th overall pick).

Low value 1st. Middle six player. Oh boy.

And the Flyers weren't trying to "go for it" when they traded Giroux. They wouldn't have traded Giroux if they were really trying to "go for it."

They were trying to gear up and go for it that off-season. That's the whole problem, which you are deliberately ignoring. You are smarter than this so I know you're being dishonest here. This is easy stuff. You're misunderstanding deliberately because that's the only way your complaining can have a point.

Fletcher was dealing with an idiot delusional boss in Dave Scott who didn't know hockey and who thought the Flyers could miraculously make the playoffs, but in the press conferences everything Chuck said was that the Flyers desperately needed more high end talent, and the only way to get it was through the draft.

Dave Scott was famously aloof and uninvolved. He beclowned himself every time he talked about the team because the all he could do was bullshit based on recent context cues. He had no idea what was going on. The whole show was Fletcher's and the advisors.

Fletcher then made zero attempt to get the high end talent. Makes you wonder how honest he was being.

He used the word "retool" instead of "rebuild" because he was trying to save his job, but read between the lines, and look at the Giroux trade, and it was obvious he knew they weren't contenders. And he sure wasn't "going for it."

And yet that off-season they did no rebuilding moved. They were going for it. As they always said, they believed merely making the playoffs makes you a contender and they thought we could do that.

Yeah, Chuck didn't go for a complete tank, because again, he was trying to save his job, but, no, he wasn't "going for it." That's incredible hyperbole and disingenuous. The Giroux trade proves he wasn't "going for it." And it was the right move.

He was. The Giroux trade in a lost season has absolutely nothing to do with their off-season approach.

This was the off-season they brought back Braun, and traded for TDA. These moves are the opposite of rebuilding. They were moves you make if you're putting together a run.

The TDL move in a dead season has zero bearing on their off-season stance. You also know this. It's too obvious not to know. Why are you pretending you don't?

Chuck's problem was that he didn't have the balls to tell Dave Scott that he was being delusional and he tried to placate him to a degree by not being awful. Hence the DeAngelo trade that didn't work out. It took Torts to come in and completely tell it like it is. And they had to get Scott out and replace him with Hilferty.

Dave Scott would have gone with whatever Fletcher told him. Scott wasn't the problem in any way. That's why nothing is different with Hilferty in charge.