GDT: #42 | Ducks at Flyers | Saturday, January 11, 2025 | 7:00 PM | NBCSP, 97.5 FM

[ellja3]

The results you have posted so far looked mediocre but I will not let it get in the way of my positivity

What do you mean by that?

Edit:

Perfectly linear, which is expected, but w W% of 27% vs teams currently 0.5-0.59 we're not getting anywhere, so yeah.

Also ZERO wins in 9 games vs top teams, not even a lucky bounce or two.

 

[Ghosts Beer]

I won't report your post for trolling, but seriously, stop trolling.

Is what I said not factual? Truth is an absolute defense.

 

[kudymen]

What do you mean by that?

Just messing with the success of the rebuild

 

[ellja3]

What do you mean by that?

Edit:

View attachment 960012

Perfectly linear, which is expected, but w W% of 27% vs teams currently 0.5-0.59 we're not getting anywhere, so yeah.

Also ZERO wins in 9 games vs top teams, not even a lucky bounce or two.

Just to add to this. Mediocre. Mediocre as f**k. Flyera

 

[Beef Invictus]

Oh please. You're the most dishonest poster on this board, and everyone knows it.

I explicitly said Ghost is a better player than Hagg. But, at THAT PARTICULAR POINT IN TIME, when Ghost was struggling mightily and the team had a better record with Hagg, well, maybe Hagg was playing better. It happens.

You know very well what I meant, but you love playing these little petty games.

"You're the most dishonest poster on this board" he says, while confirming what I said

 

[Beef Invictus]

Tippett - Poehling - TK, 58 minutes, xGF 51.18%, HDCF 51.77%
Tippett - Frost - TK, 44 minutes, xGF 56.58%, HDCF 57.38%
Both samples are too small to make conclusions, but to say they "tank out" with Poehling isn't supported by the numbers.

Those are enormous gaps

 

[JojoTheWhale]

"You're the most dishonest poster on this board"

Wait just a minute. Frank Seravalli was a poster here and he made up an entire Laughton trade rumor.

 

[deadhead]

No. You will never be able to massage this or the Edmonton trade into a positive. Hindsight is irrelevant to the process if we're serious about our evaluations.

I do not understand how you can expect anyone to take framing Gauthier as a disappointment on the day of the trade seriously. He hadn’t hit the point where he could fail yet. You had a full ELC landing strip to go. That was the whole point.

And Drysdale had 32 points at 19, then got injured in his third season.
Was xGFrel +0.30, HDCFrel -2.96 that one season. Fine for a young D-man on a dysfunctional team.
Was badly mishandled, should have spent his first season in the AHL (or the CHL) instead of being called up at 18 and thrown to the wolves.

That player was as deserving of #6 as Gauthier was #5.
Drysdale's "failure" was getting hurt at 20, then traded at 21.
Gauthier's "failure" was not being able to stay at center and being exposed as a volume shooter who played more of a perimeter game for a big forward. Flyers knew this when they traded him.

The script here became the trade was a fiasco b/c we got damaged goods and they got a #5 pick.
The reality was both players need a lot of work, the Flyers knew what they were getting in Drysdale, they were upfront about him needing a year or two to learn how to play defense.
Gauthier has raw tools, but will have to learn to play a lot tougher to be more than a 20 goal, perimeter scorer.

Because Gauthier was younger and seems more durable, Anaheim threw in their 2nd rd pick.
Anaheim got more value, but it wasn't close to a "steal."

In the 16 games since Drysdale returned to the lineup:
15:31 (5x5), xGF 58.84%, HDCF 57.49%, xGFrel +3.01, HDCFrel +4.60
Hasn't shown much on the PP, but neither did Andrae over the same period.
He's been used in a sheltered 3rd pair role, his value will depend if he can develop into a PP QB.
Don't know if he can sustain this level of play, but there's also a lot of room for improvement in coaching up fundamentals.

Gauthier this season,
12:23 (5x5) xGF 46.09%, HDCF 45.41%, xGFrel +4.77, HDCFrel +4.13, pp/60: 1.38
Not bad for a 21 year old rookie.
He's going to improve, but how much?

 

[bennysflyers16]

I’d trade Drysdale and a 2nd for Cutter right now.

 

[MJL66]

Gauthier's "failure" was not being able to stay at center and being exposed as a volume shooter who played more of a perimeter game for a big forward. Flyers knew this when they traded him.

Here is the very simple question. If Gauthier had signed with the Flyers when they wanted him to sign in May of 23, would they have traded him as a signed player for Drysdale? Speculation of course but I think it's fair to say, not they wouldn't have. How can a 20 year old player who never played a single NHL game at the time be a failure at something? At that point in time, he was exactly what he was when they scouted him and picked him at #5. A Hobey Baker finalist who was voted the best player at the WJC. You're a typical Flyers fan. Probably thought he was great before they traded him. Now he's a failure who couldn't stay at center who played a perimeter game. Players who play a perimeter game don't become finalists for the Hobey Baker

 

[Danko]

Cutter did himself no favors, he could have explained his side of the story. The local sports media in philly and the flyers hyped this game up since he was traded. They advertised it and drew a large crowd for a Roman Coliseum style event.

You whip enough people into a frenzy, and show them good vs evil, this was always going to be the outcome. For folks trash talking philly fans on this...if you had been given this narrative as well, the masses would be doing the same thing in any hockey market that draws a crowd above 12,000 per game.

I hold no grudge against him personally, some folks act like he committed a murder.

 

[Philly Fanatik]

I’m at a virtual standstill with being a Flyers fan at this crucial juncture.
I’d say there are few fans that have the same sediment as I am enduring…it’s just that I haven’t a clue on the Flyers vision and their rationale of their future endeavours!
Do the Flyers want to rebuild,retool or remodel this organization?
Remorse and regret is all I have felt over the last
20 years or so with identifying with this hockey team…but being one of the rectum teams in the NHL year in on year out is starting to take its toll on all the great Flyers fans!
Just the way I feel!

 

[Danko]

It's sad that this is basically all the flyers have given us to cheer for in years. Even when they win, its not very exciting.

Initially we had Michkov when the flyers let him play, then Torts had to move him down the lineup, that took away excitement.

It's not that I want the style of hockey in the 90's brought back...this is much more skillful hockey we are seeing now, but its that I want storylines, things to cheer for, the building to be loud and energetic again. When a mascot didn't have to keep the building entertained.

 

[bennysflyers16]

21 . 27 , 25 are and will continue to be featured players on this team, I wouldn’t want to play here either.

I don’t like how it all went down as we got no value for him, but who cares.

Last night was a fun game to watch for once.

 

[mr4tno]

Ah yes, being a first round pick means so much.

Well, it all depends...were you picked by the Flyers or a real organization? Looking at their 1s and 2s going back to 2015....

• 2015- TK, Prov but no second. Probably did as best as possible. Went for need with Prov pick, which a ding
• 2016 - Rubtsov and 3 seconds. How do you spell disaster? No one is on the team. Granted several extenuating circumstances but they get no mulligan here
• 2017 - 2 1's. How do you spell disaster II? No need to even name the players as it was that epically bad. Decent 5th & 6th rounders
• 2018 - not good. Farabee is still one of the most productive players drafted in the first round after him but is trending down. Do I even need to talk about Obrien and Ginning (although not much was drafted after Ginning)
• 2019 - York, Brink. At best this is a C. Like the idea of trading down for more assets plus it allowed us to draft Brink. However, when an elite talent is falling, which there was, you jump on it
• 2020 - Forerster, Andrae. Finally, a good draft for their position in the draft. Their org dev philosophy is preventing this from potentially being graded better
• 2021 - Another disaster. Traded the first for a bad D-man which lead to an even worse contract. No need to talk about the 2nd
• 2022 - Yet another draft that can be classified as a disaster
• 2023 - finally, something good. Michov falls and they actually do the right thing. Bonk was good but once again not the BPA
• 2024 - You can lead a horse to water but you can't make them drink. Yet another elite talent falls and the Flyers revert to being the Flyers

 

[bennysflyers16]

It's sad that this is basically all the flyers have given us to cheer for in years. Even when they win, its not very exciting.

Initially we had Michkov when the flyers let him play, then Torts had to move him down the lineup, that took away excitement.

It's not that I want the style of hockey in the 90's brought back...this is much more skillful hockey we are seeing now, but its that I want storylines, things to cheer for, the building to be loud and energetic again. When a mascot didn't have to keep the building entertained.

Torts was never gonna allow MM to upstage him sadly. The first 20 games were exciting to watch MM.

Excitement also dropped watching the world jrs and seeing how Jett is actually just the next Laughton.

Future is def bleak.

 

[deadhead]

People's expectations for Michkov are ridiculous, comes over from the KHL at 19 and people expect him to put up 100 points.
Kucherov at 20, 52g 11:55 at ES, 18 points
Kucherov at 21, 82g, 12:40 at ES, 65 points, 50 at ES,
Wait, he was playing on their third line?

 

[kudymen]

Biggest things to happen to Flyers fandom over the past few years:

- opportunity to boo Dork Hapscork
- snatching a victim of Soviet Russia and signing him to 3M deal as a reward for fighting polar bears in the Arctics
- what a ride those precovid AV months were
- drafting unknown gem Michkov at #7 thanks to superb quality scouting
- TV announcer becomes president of the organization
- opportunity to sign Garnet Hathaway day 1 possible
- opportunity to boo a 20yr old
- opportunity to swear and yell at a 20yrd old

Yes those two last bullet points had to be separate points on the list, thats how petty it was.

 

[Danko]

People's expectations for Michkov are ridiculous, comes over from the KHL at 19 and people expect him to put up 100 points.
Kucherov at 20, 52g 11:55 at ES, 18 points
Kucherov at 21, 82g, 12:40 at ES, 65 points, 50 at ES,
Wait, he was playing on their third line?

I think people are upset about his usage not that he isn't putting up 100 points.

 

[JojoTheWhale]

And Drysdale had 32 points at 19, then got injured in his third season.
Was xGFrel +0.30, HDCFrel -2.96 that one season. Fine for a young D-man on a dysfunctional team.
Was badly mishandled, should have spent his first season in the AHL (or the CHL) instead of being called up at 18 and thrown to the wolves.

That player was as deserving of #6 as Gauthier was #5.
Drysdale's "failure" was getting hurt at 20, then traded at 21.
Gauthier's "failure" was not being able to stay at center and being exposed as a volume shooter who played more of a perimeter game for a big forward. Flyers knew this when they traded him.

The script here became the trade was a fiasco b/c we got damaged goods and they got a #5 pick.
The reality was both players need a lot of work, the Flyers knew what they were getting in Drysdale, they were upfront about him needing a year or two to learn how to play defense.
Gauthier has raw tools, but will have to learn to play a lot tougher to be more than a 20 goal, perimeter scorer.

Because Gauthier was younger and seems more durable, Anaheim threw in their 2nd rd pick.
Anaheim got more value, but it wasn't close to a "steal."

In the 16 games since Drysdale returned to the lineup:
15:31 (5x5), xGF 58.84%, HDCF 57.49%, xGFrel +3.01, HDCFrel +4.60
Hasn't shown much on the PP, but neither did Andrae over the same period.
He's been used in a sheltered 3rd pair role, his value will depend if he can develop into a PP QB.
Don't know if he can sustain this level of play, but there's also a lot of room for improvement in coaching up fundamentals.

Gauthier this season,
12:23 (5x5) xGF 46.09%, HDCF 45.41%, xGFrel +4.77, HDCFrel +4.13, pp/60: 1.38
Not bad for a 21 year old rookie.
He's going to improve, but how much?

The Flyers knew that about Gauthier when they drafted him too. Pretty important detail to leave out.

Yeah, we're just never going to agree here and that's fine. Hinging all of this on a guy in Drysdale who has never had an average NHL season is not the road I would take. Nor is throwing out the sizable disparity in team control/contract situation. I would assume we can agree that NHL trade values are not set by what you or I think. The league was higher than me on Gauthier. I'm a fool if I don't acknowledge that and factor it into my expectations. But that goes for this type evaluation too.

All of this feels like climbing the Alps on foot to prove a point when you could be reading on a comfy train.

 

[Flyer lurker]

Biggest things to happen to Flyers fandom over the past few years:

- opportunity to boo Dork Hapscork
- snatching a victim of Soviet Russia and signing him to 3M deal as a reward for fighting polar bears in the Arctics
- what a ride those precovid AV months were
- drafting unknown gem Michkov at #7 thanks to superb quality scouting
- TV announcer becomes president of the organization
- opportunity to sign Garnet Hathaway day 1 possible
- opportunity to boo a 20yr old
- opportunity to swear and yell at a 20yrd old

Yes those two last bullet points had to be separate points on the list, thats how petty it was.

At least Hathaway was an upgrade from day 1 Nate signing.

 

[deadhead]

Here is the very simple question. If Gauthier had signed with the Flyers when they wanted him to sign in May of 23, would they have traded him as a signed player for Drysdale? Speculation of course but I think it's fair to say, not they wouldn't have. How can a 20 year old player who never played a single NHL game at the time be a failure at something? At that point in time, he was exactly what he was when they scouted him and picked him at #5. A Hobey Baker finalist who was voted the best player at the WJC. You're a typical Flyers fan. Probably thought he was great before they traded him. Now he's a failure who couldn't stay at center who played a perimeter game. Players who play a perimeter game don't become finalists for the Hobey Baker

Brink was a Hobey Baker finalist. Dryden McKay G, won that year.
Scott Perunovich won in 2020. Adam Gaudette in 2018, Will Butcher in 2017, Jimmy Vesey in 2016.

Whether they would have traded Gauthier would have depended how he looked on the Flyers.
They have TK, Michkov, Tippett, Foerster, Brink, Farabee at wing. Couts will eventually move there.
Doubt he beats out the first four, if he was clearly better than Brink or Farabee they'd have eventually moved someone.

 

[kudymen]

At least Hathaway was an upgrade from day 1 Nate signing.

This is so painfully proving the cynical point I wanted to make "At least my other leg has not fallen off. Yet."

 

[MJL66]

People's expectations for Michkov are ridiculous, comes over from the KHL at 19 and people expect him to put up 100 points.
Kucherov at 20, 52g 11:55 at ES, 18 points
Kucherov at 21, 82g, 12:40 at ES, 65 points, 50 at ES,
Wait, he was playing on their third line?

Your exaggerations and hyperbole is ridiculous. Nobody has suggest, inferred or in any way implied that Michkov was expected to put up 100 points. What are you talking about?

 

[MJL66]

Brink was a Hobey Baker finalist. Dryden McKay G, won that year.
Scott Perunovich won in 2020. Adam Gaudette in 2018, Will Butcher in 2017, Jimmy Vesey in 2016.

Whether they would have traded Gauthier would have depended how he looked on the Flyers.
They have TK, Michkov, Tippett, Foerster, Brink, Farabee at wing. Couts will eventually move there.
Doubt he beats out the first four, if he was clearly better than Brink or Farabee they'd have eventually moved someone.

We can down the list of NHL history and see how players drafted high have planned out. You want to use hindsight evaluations against current day evaluations. How does that change what Gauthier was and what his potential was at the time he was drafted? You've gone from being extremely misguided to being downright clueless, Why didn't those factors on who he would beat out come into play in who they drafted? It shouldn't because you should always draft BPA. Admit it and I know you don't want to but there was no way they were going to trade Gauthier for Drysdale if he had signed. You know this.