GDT: #40 | Flyers at Leafs | Sunday, January 5, 2024 | 7:00 PM TONIGHT | NBCSP, 97.5 FM

[Larry44]

So you're on board with firing everyone. Because otherwise this is going nowhere and they're wasting another star's career.

Yes, everyone.

 

[FlyerNutter]

Yes. Yes.

The FO can’t scout, and develop players.

 

[Boocowski]

Does Colorado win a Cup without Makar and Rantanen?

Does Florida win a Cup without Ekblad and Tkachuk?

Does Chicago win three Cups without Kane?

Does Pittsburgh win three Cups without Crosby? I mean, they'd already drafted Malkin, why did they need another guy? One guy is enough, right?

Every one of those teams drafted their 1C in the top 5, by the way. Do the Flyers have a 1C? Do they even have a 2C? Would it be nice to have one whose prime aligns with Michkov's so they can have a sustained window of contention? No?

Florida traded for Tkachuk. Also for Reinhart. They didn't draft Bobrovski, some other dumb organization didn't value him properly. I guess you forgot to list Toews with Kane since there was only 1 name there.
This is why I say 26/27 is critical. The money will be there to get a Tkachuk and Reinhart type. Players in their prime.

 

[Boocowski]

It isn't a pivotal year. Unless you mean a year where they will further sink their franchise. This team is years away. Far further away than you believe. There is no shift in strategy after Fletcher. Only a pause caused by their own incompetence.

Disagree. Take a closer look at the 26/27 salary situation.

Sure, they can blow that moment too, but until they do I'm not going to dump on them for failure that hasn't happened yet. They might get it right this time.

There is when you sit back and play cautiously to get to OT. I guess that's part of the Flyers approach to building that winning culture they always talk about.
The Flyers didn't tank to get Michkov. Their incompetence put them where they were and they were gifted Michkov. They didn't plan and execute to get him.

So when they do something good, it's luck, and when they do something bad it's the old boys network continued incompetence. That seems fair.

 

[Boocowski]

Yes there is. They weren't just surviving. They'd been playing well. They could have pushed and won. They took the coward route.

and if they opened it up and the offensive team they faced got a break or made a stretch pass and scored in regulation to win you'd be all over them for their inability to play D and get to OT. Negativity is EASY.

 

[Rich Nixon]

Florida traded for Tkachuk. Also for Reinhart. They didn't draft Bobrovski, some other dumb organization didn't value him properly. I guess you forgot to list Toews with Kane since there was only 1 name there.
This is why I say 26/27 is critical. The money will be there to get a Tkachuk and Reinhart type. Players in their prime.

Hey let me know real quick: who was the main piece Florida traded for Tkachuk and where was that player drafted? I absolutely knew you'd say that though. I thought about stipulating that part to take it away, but I was giving you the benefit of the doubt. Womp womp.

Oh, and I didn't list Toews because they already drafted him before picking Kane. Same reason I didn't mention Barkov for Florida. That was the whole f***ing point of the post, man. You said the Flyers got Michkov, so no need to position themselves for any more high picks, right? All set!

Christ.

And I didn't mention other contributors that weren't drafted high because I'm making a very simple argument: There is no one-step process to contention, but you still need to complete step one.

You need core elite talent to build around AND you need good depth drafting and development AND you need a savvy GM who wins audacious trades AND you need a smart organization that hires good coaches and personnel and maintains accountability and focus.

Which is why teams like Buffalo and Arizona never go anywhere: They draft high and fail at everything else due to incompetence. Pointing out that Florida, for example, completed steps two through infinity correctly doesn't change the fact that they completed step one first.

 

[MJL66]

They were gifted Michkov and accepted the universe's benevolence and took him. Then a few minutes later they were gifted Perreault, and took Bonk. Last year they were gifted Buium but traded down to take Luchanko. They really aren't very smart, and that is going to hurt the team's future. They are 6-10 years away from realistic Cup contention, and worrying about culture is a moot point and stupid pursuit.

Culture means nothing when almost none of the players on the team now are going to be around when they start to really compete in 2030. Michkov, maybe Foerster, maybe York. I love Brink, but he'll be gone. That's about it. Among the prospects, maybe Jett and Bonk. Some of the untradeable contracts will be there for the start of the contention run: Konecny, Sanheim, Couturier and Tippett.

I couldn't agree more with that. If they ever get to contention.

 

[Beef Invictus]

and if they opened it up and the offensive team they faced got a break or made a stretch pass and scored in regulation to win you'd be all over them for their inability to play D and get to OT. Negativity is EASY.

Incorrect. There is this idea that I'm negative by default, and unreasonably. This is false and the opposite of truth. If they'd pushed hard to do actual real offense to ensure they won the game and demonstrated a killer instinct for the first time since 2012, I'd have been delighted and praised it. That's what I do when they do things that I like, and I like things that maximize the chances of meaningful winning; it's just that the team has spent over a decade doing the exact opposite with unbelievable devotion. I spend my time trying hard to be excited for the team I love and they refuse to give me much of anything to work with. As I've mentioned, the chief examples of me being wrong the last many years is due to me being positive and excited about a thing they did. Meanwhile the actual negative people were right.

The idea is to develop a winning culture, right? Playing for a point in the regular season for a team far down the rankings is the height of loser behavior. There is no loser point in the playoffs. The team has to know how to win games, not delay losing for a pity point. They get a loser mentality and they harm their draft chances. It's nothing but downside.

 

[MJL66]

Florida traded for Tkachuk. Also for Reinhart. They didn't draft Bobrovski, some other dumb organization didn't value him properly. I guess you forgot to list Toews with Kane since there was only 1 name there.
This is why I say 26/27 is critical. The money will be there to get a Tkachuk and Reinhart type. Players in their prime.

What are you missing in your equation beside money?

Disagree. Take a closer look at the 26/27 salary situation.

Sure, they can blow that moment too, but until they do I'm not going to dump on them for failure that hasn't happened yet. They might get it right this time.


So when they do something good, it's luck, and when they do something bad it's the old boys network continued incompetence. That seems fair.

Salary situation? Seriously? LOL. When doing something good is a complete outlier, yes it's luck. Are you telling me they planned and executed getting a high draft pick to get a potential star players? Is that what you're telling me? LOL

 

[BackToTheBrierePatch]

I still maintain that the true #1 reason they passed on Buium is that they were afraid of a Gauthier repeat and him not signing here. Continuing to operate like this is not acceptable.

They didn’t want to draft another college player with their first round pick so they went with what they always do. The safest junior player.

 

[BackToTheBrierePatch]

It needs to be said again. This organization needs a enema. In the worst way

 

[CerpinTaxt]

and if they opened it up and the offensive team they faced got a break or made a stretch pass and scored in regulation to win you'd be all over them for their inability to play D and get to OT. Negativity is EASY.

Dude do you know how ridiculous you sound? You deride anyone who has valid criticisms of the team and the org and label it as negative. Your "optimism" is that you think there will be a big opportunity in the 26/27 season via free agency and you're "hoping" they manage to get it right. And if they don't get it right then what, you'll all the sudden recognize the sad reality that's been biting all fans in the ass since 2014? Hoping the team maybe gets it right despite numerous examples of them getting it wrong isn't optimism its delusion. You couldn't (or refused) to name one positive thing about the team (not the game the other night but the team) so maybe chill on calling out posters on their "negativity".

 

[renberg]

I still maintain that the true #1 reason they passed on Buium is that they were afraid of a Gauthier repeat and him not signing here. Continuing to operate like this is not acceptable.

Since Buium is represented by Kurt Overhardt who is also the agent for Cutter Gauthier and Ryan Johanssen it probably would not have worked out well to have drafted him. Overhardt is also Farabees’s agent so who knows what feedback JF has been sending to Overhardt about the current situation with the Flyers. Under these circumstances it was probably best to not draft Buium. The sad thing is that after Buium, the drop off in talent in that round was significant. Perhaps Helenius would have been a wiser pick than Luchanko. Time will tell.

 

[deadhead]

According to Wheeler, Helenius had a disappointing WJC, even though he's more advanced than Jett.

Jett really wasn't going to show much offensively, both b/c of his wings (basically muckers) and because of his usage, PK, 4th line, playing with a lead (expected to play it safe). The Flyers have no control, but hopefully he'll get traded in the next couple weeks to a more talented and offensively oriented team. If he stays on Guelph, I can see the Flyers keeping him next year b/c he can probably develop faster in a sheltered role than on that team.

 

[CerpinTaxt]

Since Buium is represented by Kurt Overhardt who is also the agent for Cutter Gauthier and Ryan Johanssen it probably would not have worked out well to have drafted him. Overhardt is also Farabees’s agent so who knows what feedback JF has been sending to Overhardt about the current situation with the Flyers. Under these circumstances it was probably best to not draft Buium. The sad thing is that after Buium, the drop off in talent in that round was significant. Perhaps Helenius would have been a wiser pick than Luchanko. Time will tell.

So the org is shit then if it can't draft top players because of problems with an agent.

 

[renberg]

So the org is shit then if it can't draft top players because of problems with an agent.

Agents often do the bidding of players. The Johanssen thing was a mess created by CBJ/ Tortorella/Nashville that the Flyers, perhaps stupidly, decided to get into in order to obtain a first round draft pick. The Gauthier mess was a Fletcher created fiasco.
Somehow the Flyers need to get out of this box so that they can deal with clients of Overhardt’s. This can’t drift into the realm of Boras-Phillies during the J D Drew days. If Briere can’t do that, he needs to be replaced with someone who can. The Flyers need to acquire talent regardless of who their agent may be.

 

[Larry44]

Incorrect. There is this idea that I'm negative by default, and unreasonably. This is false and the opposite of truth. If they'd pushed hard to do actual real offense to ensure they won the game and demonstrated a killer instinct for the first time since 2012, I'd have been delighted and praised it. That's what I do when they do things that I like, and I like things that maximize the chances of meaningful winning; it's just that the team has spent over a decade doing the exact opposite with unbelievable devotion. I spend my time trying hard to be excited for the team I love and they refuse to give me much of anything to work with. As I've mentioned, the chief examples of me being wrong the last many years is due to me being positive and excited about a thing they did. Meanwhile the actual negative people were right.

The idea is to develop a winning culture, right? Playing for a point in the regular season for a team far down the rankings is the height of loser behavior. There is no loser point in the playoffs. The team has to know how to win games, not delay losing for a pity point. They get a loser mentality and they harm their draft chances. It's nothing but downside.

Exceedingly well put. I would LOVE to cheer and be optimistic but all I see are bad decisions, stupid, outdated belief systems and boring, mediocre hockey.

 

[Beef Invictus]

Exceedingly well put. I would LOVE to cheer and be optimistic but all I see are bad decisions, stupid, outdated belief systems and bo ring, mediocre hockey.

I remember how a whole lot of us would vigorously debate aspects of individual players. And that's kinda just gone now because it doesn't matter. The problems up top have manifested themselves so clearly as THE true issue that nitpicking individuals at the lowest level (who didn't pick themselves to be there) doesn't really happen anymore.

Except from people who choose to believe those up top don't make mistakes.

 

[Larry44]

Except from people who choose to believe those up top don't make mistakes.

I don’t subscribe to Management Infallibility either.