GDT: #40 | Flyers at Leafs | Sunday, January 5, 2024 | 7:00 PM TONIGHT | NBCSP, 97.5 FM

[trostol]

You do know the Flyers had twice the xGF of Toronto in the 3rd period when the game was tied.
Which team was playing for the point?
They do pay the other team, and even the best possession team lets the other team control the game 40% of the time.

not the Flyers

once more..rebuild does not mean tanking

 

[freakydallas13]

You do know the Flyers had twice the xGF of Toronto in the 3rd period when the game was tied.
Which team was playing for the point?
They do pay the other team, and even the best possession team lets the other team control the game 40% of the time.

Did you watch the last few minutes? They were dogging it out there, instead of pushing the envelope against a team that played the night before.

 

[CerpinTaxt]

It's not him getting injured as to why I put that there. Hathaway slightly bumped their goalie and he went after Hathaway and then got more than he wanted. Everything up to the landing. The injury was from his head hitting the ice so not Hathaway's fault. After Domi taking a cheap shot at Hathaway earlier it just reinforced that they are building a tough team that will not be pushed around. I like that. No delight in McCabe getting concussed (I assume) but it happens.

The point? idk, I'm not a believer in tanking or playing for a higher draft pick. I think it's more important to build a winning culture and to stay competitive. Maybe that's pointless but I look at the tank teams and they seem to have a hell of a time getting out of the funk of that and then nobody wants to go there (like Buffalo) and then it takes forever and ever. I think staying competitive (even if it's an illusion) will serve us better over time. I know that's not popular with some here.

2026-27 is the pivotal year for this franchise. We have to be patient until then unfortunately due to past errors.

Interesting. So playing like shit and having a shit org is cool so long as they act like they have a plan to not be shit? For all the culture talk this seems to be the worse indictment. I don't know I feel like sports is more enjoyable when the team I root for is, you know, good. I would rather have an organization that actually has a plan to get better and actually executes on it. The Flyers haven't been doing that for 10 years now, and they've mostly kept the same M.O. Somethings rotten in the state of Denmark here.

 

[BackToTheBrierePatch]

Not really. Frost and Michkov got the least 5on5 TOI. Tippett and Poehling (laugh) got the most. Couturier was in the middle.

https://www.naturalstattrick.com/game.php?season=20242025&game=20635

Torts was screaming at Poehling on the bench after his bad turnover led to a goal last night. I don’t think he missed a shift. Frost or Michkov would’ve of played another shift after that. But accountability for everyone right?

 

[BackToTheBrierePatch]

That shit with Poehling is a reason why I have a hard time watching this team play. I only watched last night because I was bored as f***. I was still bored watching that game last night

 

[Magua]

Nothing about Poehling’s usage will ever be surprising when in game 82 of a must-win, on the verge of an epic choke, Tortorella used Poehling as his top forward in a 2-1 loss.

Buffalo isn't where they are because they're tanking on purpose. They've sucked forever because they're owned by a stupid asshole who doesn't know how to staff a hockey operations department.

A key part of Buffalo’s failure to turn the corner is……they traded their franchise center. It’s not that they didn’t find him. Their total failure during the first rebuild directly led them to gifting a franchise center and a top line winger to the last 2 Cup teams.

Eichel had never played a playoff series before being the best player on a Cup run. It doesn’t get more bad culture than his Buffalo years. It’s such a horseshit narrative to excuse poor process.

 

[MJL66]

Well, as long as you acknowledge the "luck" factor, especially since they've instituted the lottery.
I mean what are the odds you'll land a Crosby, McDavid (after missing on 3 other #1 picks) or MacKinnon?

Chicago had two elite players from high picks, Kane #1, and Toews #3, Keith was a 2nd rd pick.
TB had Hedman, but won without Stamkos, but with Point and Kucherov who were not high picks.

And all the teams like Boston, St Louis, Vegas, Florida who didn't tank to win.

In the end, it comes down more to implementation than strategy.
You need to keep adding talent and get a little lucky.

Vegas is a complete outlier, they used the expansion draft to build up a base. They also took advantage of a situation where a medical dispute led to a foolish team moving an elite #1 center. That is not a repeatable strategy. There have been teams such as St. Louis that rode one playoff run and then were done. You want a situation where there is a core that you can take multiple runs and have a significant open window. Florida won last year in 2024. Their core has been around a lot longer. Barkov was drafted in 2013, that's 11 years. Ekblad drafted in 2014, that's 10 years. Huberdeau, who they used to trade for Tkachuk, another situation that is unlikely to repeat, was drafted in 2011. That's 12 years. For Boston, Chara, their best defenseman was 33.
Maybe you think this management group is going to be able to wheel and deal to the Cup on the level that Zito did but I see that as a really foolish position. Maybe you think the Flyers crack scouting staff is going to uncover 2nd and 3rd round stars like Kucherov and Point but that's another foolish position. There is only one approach that will give a team the best odds and it's not the Flyers

 

[MJL66]

Nothing about Poehling’s usage will ever be surprising when in game 82 of a must-win, on the verge of an epic choke, Tortorella used Poehling as his top forward in a 2-1 loss.

A key part of Buffalo’s failure to turn the corner is……they traded their franchise center. It’s not that they didn’t find him. Their total failure during the first rebuild directly led them to gifting a franchise center and a top line winger to the last 2 Cup teams.

Eichel had never played a playoff series before being the best player on a Cup run. It doesn’t get more bad culture than his Buffalo years. It’s such a horseshit narrative to excuse poor process.

I wonder how Eichel did that when he wasn't a part of a winning culture in Buffalo. The talk of culture is complete nonsense. The Flyers actually believe they are building culture with what they're doing. They're a diseased franchise that refuses treatment.

 

[Magua]

I wonder how Eichel did that when he wasn't a part of a winning culture in Buffalo. The talk of culture is complete nonsense. The Flyers actually believe they are building culture with what they're doing. They're a diseased franchise that refuses treatment.

There’s such a thing as the right processes being in place before winning. From developing to coaching to drafting. While losing is going on. If anyone believes the Flyers have any of those in place, they’re terminal homers. At every level of the organization, they are built to have a 22nd place culture, while simulating movement like a treadmill.

But the real truth is many Cup teams made disastrous choices along the way and actively had BAD CULTURE. It’s not always linear progress. Colorado and Florida were near disaster with their franchise players at prime ages. Culture can be made like a microwave dinner.

 

[Rich Nixon]

Nothing about Poehling’s usage will ever be surprising when in game 82 of a must-win, on the verge of an epic choke, Tortorella used Poehling as his top forward in a 2-1 loss.

A key part of Buffalo’s failure to turn the corner is……they traded their franchise center. It’s not that they didn’t find him. Their total failure during the first rebuild directly led them to gifting a franchise center and a top line winger to the last 2 Cup teams.

Eichel had never played a playoff series before being the best player on a Cup run. It doesn’t get more bad culture than his Buffalo years. It’s such a horseshit narrative to excuse poor process.

Exactly, and they traded their franchise center because they had to. And they had to because they:

1. Continually failed to employ good coaches and make good roster moves around him, creating frustration.
2. Tried to pull the "no one is bigger than the team" bullshit and dictate his medical decisions, because the franchise always knows best!

"Culture" isn't just getting a bunch of 24 year old bros to bro out together or fight a lil more. That's pretty easy to foster. The culture of a franchise--professionalism, priorities--are also vital. And if the organization isn't staffed from the top down by professionals who know how to evaluate personnel, how to set coherent goals, and which battles with players are worth picking, you're never going to get anywhere.

In that respect, the Flyers are much, much closer to the Sabres than a lot of people want to realize. They aren't a serious, professionally-managed sports operation. For all the WELL WHAT, DO YOU WANNA END UP LIKE THE SABRES comments people make, I'm like...guess what, bitch? They already are. Over the last 10 seasons they have 38 more total wins than the Sabres. Less than 4 per season, in a bigger market with more resources and with a future Hall of Famer on the roster for the first half of that stretch. With all that, they won 5% more of their total games played than Buffalo for an entire decade. That isn't enough to stand on any moral high ground, period.

 

[MJL66]

There’s such a thing as the right processes being in place before winning. From developing to coaching to drafting. While losing is going on. If anyone believes the Flyers have any of those in place, they’re terminal homers. At every level of the organization, they are built to have a 22nd place culture, while simulating movement like a treadmill.

But the real truth is many Cup teams made disastrous choices along the way and actively had BAD CULTURE. It’s not always linear progress. Colorado and Florida were near disaster with their franchise players at prime ages. Culture can be made like a microwave dinner.

To me it's all about having high level talent and the right mix of players. That's the horse. A winning culture is the cart. Obviously you can get the wrong high level talent that doesn't reach their potential due to personality flaws, work ethic issues and others. Compile that talent and build the team though a process with quality coaching behind it and the cart will build itself. The winning culture will build. However, you can't build a winning culture without the horse. That's what the Flyers are trying to sell.

 

[JojoTheWhale]

Culture also spills downhill from the emotional intelligence of the people making the decisions. It’s worrisome to me that a GM can stand at a press conference about trading a top prospect and sound like a jilted middle school lover. Or a coach can purposely manipulate players into confronting him. You’re supposed to grow out of this stuff. Why should I have any faith in these people?

If anyone thinks I’m not consistent in this one, go back to the introductory Vigneault press conference and an awful lot of people who should know better were laughing about his answer on not developing players — Well they didn’t develop elsewhere either! I was only getting angrier with each question. A barge of fools.

 

[deadhead]

Vegas is a complete outlier, they used the expansion draft to build up a base. They also took advantage of a situation where a medical dispute led to a foolish team moving an elite #1 center. That is not a repeatable strategy. There have been teams such as St. Louis that rode one playoff run and then were done. You want a situation where there is a core that you can take multiple runs and have a significant open window. Florida won last year in 2024. Their core has been around a lot longer. Barkov was drafted in 2013, that's 11 years. Ekblad drafted in 2014, that's 10 years. Huberdeau, who they used to trade for Tkachuk, another situation that is unlikely to repeat, was drafted in 2011. That's 12 years. For Boston, Chara, their best defenseman was 33.

St. Louis went to the playoffs 10 times in 11 years, (3) 2nd rd exits and a CF loss as well as a Cup.

Florida had a long run of futility (2 PO appearances in 18 years) before they started winning.
Weise #4-2001, Bouwmeesster #3-2002, Taticek #9-2002, Horton #3-2003, Olesz #7-2004, Frolik #10-2006, Ellerby #10-2007, Gudbranson #3-2010, Hubereau #3-2011, Barkov #2-2013, Ekblad #1-2014, Crouse #11-2015, Tippett #10-2017,
So what turned them around were a few smart moves,
Verhaeghe - SFA 2020
Forsling - waivers 1/21 (from Carolina)
Montour for 2021 3rd rd pick
Reinhart for 2022 1st, Levi G
Bennett for 2nd rd pick & Heineman (2nd rd, now starting for Mon)
Tkachuck for Hubereau, Weegar & 2025 1st

Of course, he also traded (2) 1st rd picks, 3rd, 4th and Tippett to rent G and Chariot and got swept

However, the real key was Bob, who had one good PO in his career, suddenly playing in the post-season like he did in the regular season.

 

[trostol]

i'll stick by to nothing changing til someone makes Comcast an offer they just can't refuse and sells the team..as long at that person isn't Elon Musk

 

[FlyerNutter]

i'll stick by to nothing changing til someone makes Comcast an offer they just can't refuse and sells the team..as long at that person isn't Elon Musk

* Resist. Resist. *

 

[tucson83]

i'll stick by to nothing changing til someone makes Comcast an offer they just can't refuse and sells the team..as long at that person isn't Elon Musk

so your fine with losing your hockey team to another city?

 

[Beef Invictus]

St. Louis went to the playoffs 10 times in 11 years, (3) 2nd rd exits and a CF loss as well as a Cup.

Florida had a long run of futility (2 PO appearances in 18 years) before they started winning.
Weise #4-2001, Bouwmeesster #3-2002, Taticek #9-2002, Horton #3-2003, Olesz #7-2004, Frolik #10-2006, Ellerby #10-2007, Gudbranson #3-2010, Hubereau #3-2011, Barkov #2-2013, Ekblad #1-2014, Crouse #11-2015, Tippett #10-2017,
So what turned them around were a few smart moves,
Verhaeghe - SFA 2020
Forsling - waivers 1/21 (from Carolina)
Montour for 2021 3rd rd pick
Reinhart for 2022 1st, Levi G
Bennett for 2nd rd pick & Heineman (2nd rd, now starting for Mon)
Tkachuck for Hubereau, Weegar & 2025 1st

Of course, he also traded (2) 1st rd picks, 3rd, 4th and Tippett to rent G and Chariot and got swept

However, the real key was Bob, who had one good PO in his career, suddenly playing in the post-season like he did in the regular season.

No, the real key was getting competent management. Goalie performances in the playoffs habitually go nowhere. The best goalie often loses. The oilers actually allowed the same number of goals per game in that run as Florida did.

Bob having a team in front of him is what mattered. We annually watch great goaltending performances wasted behind lacking rosters.

 

[Beef Invictus]

so your fine with losing your hockey team to another city?

Reread his post and underline the part where he says that.


You have a unique ability to misread everything that everyone writes because you're busy dreaming up stuff nobody has said. It's incredible.

 

[JojoTheWhale]

St. Louis went to the playoffs 10 times in 11 years, (3) 2nd rd exits and a CF loss as well as a Cup.

Florida had a long run of futility (2 PO appearances in 18 years) before they started winning.
Weise #4-2001, Bouwmeesster #3-2002, Taticek #9-2002, Horton #3-2003, Olesz #7-2004, Frolik #10-2006, Ellerby #10-2007, Gudbranson #3-2010, Hubereau #3-2011, Barkov #2-2013, Ekblad #1-2014, Crouse #11-2015, Tippett #10-2017,
So what turned them around were a few smart moves,
Verhaeghe - SFA 2020
Forsling - waivers 1/21 (from Carolina)
Montour for 2021 3rd rd pick
Reinhart for 2022 1st, Levi G
Bennett for 2nd rd pick & Heineman (2nd rd, now starting for Mon)
Tkachuck for Hubereau, Weegar & 2025 1st

Of course, he also traded (2) 1st rd picks, 3rd, 4th and Tippett to rent G and Chariot and got swept

However, the real key was Bob, who had one good PO in his career, suddenly playing in the post-season like he did in the regular season.

The real key was nailing the single highest difficulty trade in the modern history of the NHL. Bobrosvky timing a hot streak is not a comment on team building.

Everyone misses. All Goalies are streaky. There are maybe 2 other teams that would even seriously entertain trading their best Defenseman and the 2nd leading scorer in the league for one player. That's the key. Can you make the hard decisions or are you just Hextall?

 

[deadhead]

The real key was nailing the single highest difficulty trade in the modern history of the NHL. Bobrosvky timing a hot streak is not a comment on team building.

Everyone misses. All Goalies are streaky. There are maybe 2 other teams that would even seriously entertain trading their best Defenseman and the 2nd leading scorer in the league for one player. That's the key. Can you make the hard decisions or are you just Hextall?

It wasn't that hard, both were in the last years of their contract, at ages where prudence dictated avoiding an eight year deal. So Zito basically traded two tough extensions for one extension for a top player who was 2 years younger.

For Calgary and Winnipeg, the difficulty of signing FAs causes them to take risks that Florida, as a prime location (Weather and no income tax) doesn't face.

 

[JojoTheWhale]

It wasn't that hard, both were in the last years of their contract, at ages where prudence dictated avoiding an eight year deal. So Zito basically traded two tough extensions for one extension for a top player who was 2 years younger.

For Calgary and Winnipeg, the difficulty of signing FAs causes them to take risks that Florida, as a prime location (Weather and no income tax) doesn't face.

Tkachuk would scare me. While he's only 25 next season, he's coming off a career year with a 3.25 pp/60, next highest season was 2.27 three years ago - how much is maturity, how much is a fluke fed by JG having his career year. They committed a lot of money to a guy who might be no more than a 1LW/2LW.

Huberdeau is also coming off a career year, but has a better track record the last few years. But he's four years older.

With Huberdeau and Weegar and a 1st, Calgary has more options, they can see if they can work out a reasonable extension, move them at the TDL or let them walk after the season if they're a legitimate playoff contender. Tkachuk made it clear he wasn't signing there

 

[Beef Invictus]

It wasn't that hard

This is completely ridiculous.

 

[JojoTheWhale]

I feel like I say this every time, but everyone gets things wrong. The point is definitely not to say haha look at this idiot. It's just trying to avoid rewriting history because that serves us all poorly.

 

[Hollywood Cannon]

It. Wasn't. That. Hard.

 

[MJL66]

St. Louis went to the playoffs 10 times in 11 years, (3) 2nd rd exits and a CF loss as well as a Cup.

Florida had a long run of futility (2 PO appearances in 18 years) before they started winning.
Weise #4-2001, Bouwmeesster #3-2002, Taticek #9-2002, Horton #3-2003, Olesz #7-2004, Frolik #10-2006, Ellerby #10-2007, Gudbranson #3-2010, Hubereau #3-2011, Barkov #2-2013, Ekblad #1-2014, Crouse #11-2015, Tippett #10-2017,
So what turned them around were a few smart moves,
Verhaeghe - SFA 2020
Forsling - waivers 1/21 (from Carolina)
Montour for 2021 3rd rd pick
Reinhart for 2022 1st, Levi G
Bennett for 2nd rd pick & Heineman (2nd rd, now starting for Mon)
Tkachuck for Hubereau, Weegar & 2025 1st

Of course, he also traded (2) 1st rd picks, 3rd, 4th and Tippett to rent G and Chariot and got swept

However, the real key was Bob, who had one good PO in his career, suddenly playing in the post-season like he did in the regular season.

St. Louis has not seriously challenged for the Cup since they won in 2019. It was not sustainable as a serious contender. It was one and done. You always have to add to your core base but it starts with the high level core. You missed the point.