GDT: #40 | Flyers at Leafs | Sunday, January 5, 2024 | 7:00 PM TONIGHT | NBCSP, 97.5 FM

[Beef Invictus]

Did it give you a rash, Beefy?

There are creams for it

 

[Beef Invictus]

I see I missed a very entertaining game, losers point #culture

They pulled back and played for OT instead of the win. Culture indeed!

 

[renberg]

Since they aren’t allowed to make cross ice passes and don’t have decent center ice play they really are using only one third of the rink. So what’s the difference between them pulling back and their regular game?

 

[Beef Invictus]

As for goalies… I will always laugh to high hell they didn’t even try to address a need for elite talent. Again.

Aside from no coherent plan to draft high, what’s the point of dealing all these idiots for meh level draft picks if you never use them in creative ways anyway.




Just bc everyone else likes posting it.

Imagine Gauthier, Michkov, Buium, Perreault (I know next to shit about him but the name comes up), Askarov, and say Ethan Bear.

Instead of this bullshit. They don’t have the evaluation skill to do a half ass retool. That much is clear.

My first instinct is "it's not fair to do this hindsight game" but none of those are hindsight. Except Gauthier; I still would have gone with Jiricek over him.

 

[Beef Invictus]

Every other game I watch this season is a contender for the most boring NHL game I have ever seen in my life. So it was especially funny in the 3rd period to hear JJ and Bouch riff on what a good, entertaining defensive game we were all getting to witness.

After spending the first half of it towing the company line and demonizing cross-ice playmaking. They're working very hard to convince us that fun is bad and boring is good.

 

[Beef Invictus]

Zamula's been playing great since he got back into the lineup.
Torts rode him to make quicker decisions, and guess what, he's more decisive since he returned.
Zamula 14g xGF 65.42%, HDCF 62.73%
Andrae 9g xGF 65.16%, HDCF 63.58%

Both primarily paired with Risto.
If they trade Risto at the TDL
Andrae - Zamula or Andrae/Zamula - Grans.

Why did it take months for him to say "be decisive?" Is this meant to be a massive criticism of how lazy and useless Tortorella is as a coach?

 

[MJL66]

Zamula is playing b/c he's playing well. It's that simple.

Zamula is limited athletically, below average speed, good reach but lanky build means leverage will always be an issue. However, he's a smooth skater who's agile for his size, has a plus shot and is a plus passer. Good vision, good using his stick on defense.

His issue has been that lack of speed and struggles with pressure due to his build, had a bad habit of looking for his best option allowing forecheckers time to crowd him and force turnovers - now he's making faster decisions and getting rid of the puck before pressure reaches him.

Was his build or the bad habit of looking for his best option the issue. Now that Tortorella has him playing faster, is his build a non factor? Or is that still a factor?

 

[deadhead]

Was his build or the bad habit of looking for his best option the issue. Now that Tortorella has him playing faster, is his build a non factor? Or is that still a factor?

It's less of an issue. His length is an advantage over shorter D-men, but his build means he has to play more like a small D-man. Like most players, it's learning to play within his limitations.

 

[MJL66]

It's less of an issue. His length is an advantage over shorter D-men, but his build means he has to play more like a small D-man. Like most players, it's learning to play within his limitations.

So the issue of his build disappeared or partially disappeared now that they told him to make quicker plays. The reality is that his build had nothing to do with it.

 

[Beef Invictus]

So the issue of his build disappeared or partially disappeared now that they told him to make quicker plays. The reality is that his build had nothing to do with it.

The way it works is that the Flyers fetishize size, so therefore to DH size is of utmost importance; more important than actual ability.

 

[Boocowski]

Thanks man. Never wanna see a player get injured so disagree there. Fedotov did have a good game. How is them earning a point good for the team? I'm not saying you're wrong just want to know why you think it's good

It's not him getting injured as to why I put that there. Hathaway slightly bumped their goalie and he went after Hathaway and then got more than he wanted. Everything up to the landing. The injury was from his head hitting the ice so not Hathaway's fault. After Domi taking a cheap shot at Hathaway earlier it just reinforced that they are building a tough team that will not be pushed around. I like that. No delight in McCabe getting concussed (I assume) but it happens.

The point? idk, I'm not a believer in tanking or playing for a higher draft pick. I think it's more important to build a winning culture and to stay competitive. Maybe that's pointless but I look at the tank teams and they seem to have a hell of a time getting out of the funk of that and then nobody wants to go there (like Buffalo) and then it takes forever and ever. I think staying competitive (even if it's an illusion) will serve us better over time. I know that's not popular with some here.

2026-27 is the pivotal year for this franchise. We have to be patient until then unfortunately due to past errors.

 

[BernieParent]

We've got fans upset about Hathaway beating up McCabe after McCabe cheap-shotted Hathaway's head into the ice?

What has happened to the Flyers' fanbase?

McCabe messed with a bull and got the horns.

There's a difference between the deserved punches in the face from Hathaway and the accidental and dangerous fall to the ice that may have concussed McCabe. We can still appreciate the former and feel badly for the latter.

 

[Beef Invictus]

It's not him getting injured as to why I put that there. Hathaway slightly bumped their goalie and he went after Hathaway and then got more than he wanted. Everything up to the landing. The injury was from his head hitting the ice so not Hathaway's fault. After Domi taking a cheap shot at Hathaway earlier it just reinforced that they are building a tough team that will not be pushed around. I like that. No delight in McCabe getting concussed (I assume) but it happens.

The point? idk, I'm not a believer in tanking or playing for a higher draft pick. I think it's more important to build a winning culture and to stay competitive. Maybe that's pointless but I look at the tank teams and they seem to have a hell of a time getting out of the funk of that and then nobody wants to go there (like Buffalo) and then it takes forever and ever. I think staying competitive (even if it's an illusion) will serve us better over time. I know that's not popular with some here.

2026-27 is the pivotal year for this franchise. We have to be patient until then unfortunately due to past errors.

So then you're probably pretty pissed about the last 3+ minutes where they stopped playing to win and buckled down to just survive to get the OT point, right? That's loser stuff.

 

[Beef Invictus]

There's a difference between the deserved punches in the face from Hathaway and the accidental and dangerous fall to the ice that may have concussed McCabe. We can still appreciate the former and feel badly for the latter.

I must advise you that you're trying to talk nuance to the guy who heavily insinuated Hagg was better than Ghost due to team wins, all other metrics and tests be damned.

 

[freakydallas13]

So then you're probably pretty pissed about the last 3+ minutes where they stopped playing to win and buckled down to just survive to get the OT point, right? That's loser stuff.

Loser stuff is embraced when the Flyers do it.

 

[Larry44]

There's a difference between the deserved punches in the face from Hathaway and the accidental and dangerous fall to the ice that may have concussed McCabe. We can still appreciate the former and feel badly for the latter.

McCabe was just butthurt that Hathaway had already knocked him on his butt cleanly twice, he should not have started that fight. I hope his melon heals. I heard he just came back from getting a puck in the head. When will players learn?

 

[Flyerfan4life]

They pulled back and played for OT instead of the win. Culture indeed!

thats why a OT loss should not be rewarded

 

[Rich Nixon]

It's not him getting injured as to why I put that there. Hathaway slightly bumped their goalie and he went after Hathaway and then got more than he wanted. Everything up to the landing. The injury was from his head hitting the ice so not Hathaway's fault. After Domi taking a cheap shot at Hathaway earlier it just reinforced that they are building a tough team that will not be pushed around. I like that. No delight in McCabe getting concussed (I assume) but it happens.

The point? idk, I'm not a believer in tanking or playing for a higher draft pick. I think it's more important to build a winning culture and to stay competitive. Maybe that's pointless but I look at the tank teams and they seem to have a hell of a time getting out of the funk of that and then nobody wants to go there (like Buffalo) and then it takes forever and ever. I think staying competitive (even if it's an illusion) will serve us better over time. I know that's not popular with some here.

2026-27 is the pivotal year for this franchise. We have to be patient until then unfortunately due to past errors.

It's always fascinating to me when people go "well look at Buffalo." Not "well look at Pittsburgh, Chicago, Tampa, Colorado...". Not the teams who did it right, tanked at the right time to get the talent they needed and, once secured, took the appropriate steps to build around said talent and become perennial contenders and win multiple Cups.

Buffalo isn't where they are because they're tanking on purpose. They've sucked forever because they're owned by a stupid asshole who doesn't know how to staff a hockey operations department. The Flyers are in a similar boat, their stupid asshole is just a bad cable company.

There is no technique for anything that works for everyone because not everyone executes to the same extent. "Tanking" is not the entirety of a rebuild, it's step one of many. You can't look at the teams who never figure out how to take the second, third, and fourth steps and declare that step one is a bad idea.

 

[deadhead]

So then you're probably pretty pissed about the last 3+ minutes where they stopped playing to win and buckled down to just survive to get the OT point, right? That's loser stuff.

You do know the Flyers had twice the xGF of Toronto in the 3rd period when the game was tied.
Which team was playing for the point?
They do pay the other team, and even the best possession team lets the other team control the game 40% of the time.

 

[Beef Invictus]

You do know the Flyers had twice the xGF of Toronto in the 3rd period when the game was tied.
Which team was playing for the point?
They do pay the other team, and even the best possession team lets the other team control the game 40% of the time.

And yet they played for OT to finish the game. This made it all the more obvious what they were doing. Let the foot of the gas. Completely loser behavior.

 

[MJL66]

It's not him getting injured as to why I put that there. Hathaway slightly bumped their goalie and he went after Hathaway and then got more than he wanted. Everything up to the landing. The injury was from his head hitting the ice so not Hathaway's fault. After Domi taking a cheap shot at Hathaway earlier it just reinforced that they are building a tough team that will not be pushed around. I like that. No delight in McCabe getting concussed (I assume) but it happens.

The point? idk, I'm not a believer in tanking or playing for a higher draft pick. I think it's more important to build a winning culture and to stay competitive. Maybe that's pointless but I look at the tank teams and they seem to have a hell of a time getting out of the funk of that and then nobody wants to go there (like Buffalo) and then it takes forever and ever. I think staying competitive (even if it's an illusion) will serve us better over time. I know that's not popular with some here.

2026-27 is the pivotal year for this franchise. We have to be patient until then unfortunately due to past errors.

Is 26/27 really the pivotal year? I'll inject a dose of reality. If this franchise does it right, which they won't. They're 5-10 years away. They've already wasted well over a decade of time. They're on their way to seeing that it's two decades
Here is another truth for you. You've bought into the marketing plan and talking points of the franchise. Who have somehow convinced a larger portion of their fan base that you can build a winning culture without actually winning.

 

[Beef Invictus]

BTW, winning the xGF battle is pretty pointless when you're doing it with the weakest and easiest-to-stop chances possible. I think it was a PP in the 2nd, for example, when Boosh and JJ went fully ape for a Tippett PP setup...which was effortlessly stopped. Goalie barely had to come off the post to be in place for it. Zero challenge. AHL goalies make that stop routinely. Our own goalies do. Maybe 80s and 90s standup/hybrid goalies could be had by such things, but this is 2024 and the craft has advanced to make that routine. The Flyers don't know that though.

 

[LegionOfDoom91]

I’ve see the knuckle dragging twitter contingent of fans start to warm up to the idea they were sold a bill of goods by this organization lately.

 

[deadhead]

It's always fascinating to me when people go "well look at Buffalo." Not "well look at Pittsburgh, Chicago, Tampa, Colorado...". Not the teams who did it right, tanked at the right time to get the talent they needed and, once secured, took the appropriate steps to build around said talent and become perennial contenders and win multiple Cups.

Buffalo isn't where they are because they're tanking on purpose. They've sucked forever because they're owned by a stupid asshole who doesn't know how to staff a hockey operations department. The Flyers are in a similar boat, their stupid asshole is just a bad corporation.

There is no technique for anything that works for everyone, and not everyone executes to the same extent. "Tanking" is not the entirety of a rebuild, it's step one of many. You can't look at the teams who never figure out how to take the second, third, and fourth steps and declare that step one is a bad idea.

Well, as long as you acknowledge the "luck" factor, especially since they've instituted the lottery.
I mean what are the odds you'll land a Crosby, McDavid (after missing on 3 other #1 picks) or MacKinnon?

Chicago had two elite players from high picks, Kane #1, and Toews #3, Keith was a 2nd rd pick.
TB had Hedman, but won without Stamkos, but with Point and Kucherov who were not high picks.

And all the teams like Boston, St Louis, Vegas, Florida who didn't tank to win.

In the end, it comes down more to implementation than strategy.
You need to keep adding talent and get a little lucky.

 

[Beef Invictus]

Well, as long as you acknowledge the "luck" factor, especially since they've instituted the lottery.
I mean what are the odds you'll land a Crosby, McDavid (after missing on 3 other #1 picks) or MacKinnon?

Chicago had two elite players from high picks, Kane #1, and Toews #3, Keith was a 2nd rd pick.
TB had Hedman, but won without Stamkos, but with Point and Kucherov who were not high picks.

And all the teams like Boston, St Louis, Vegas, Florida who didn't tank to win.

In the end, it comes down more to implementation than strategy.
You need to keep adding talent and get a little lucky.

Luck isn't that much of a factor. Luck is manufactured. That's why the "lucky" teams are the well run ones that make correct moves, and the "unlucky" ones are badly managed and make blatantly wrong moves. It's pretty much a 1:1 correlation for a reason.

That's why good teams shrug and move past whiffed picks and moves and they're soon forgotten (the ensuring series of correct moves nullifies the misfortune), but teams like the Flyers are still sitting around mourning blown first rounders from 7 and 18 years ago (the slew of following wrong moves maximizes the impact of the whiff).