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4 Nations Faceoff

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YearlyLottery said:
I felt the reffing in OT was a disaster. When you decide to let the players play by clearly not calling too many men you have to let the questionable ones go like the icing that led to the goal as well.
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That no call for too many men was egregious. I get wanting to let the guys play and I can understand letting it slide if a sixth guy comes over the boards and goes off immediately, but Canada had seven guys on the ice and involved in the play. That just cannot be let go.
 
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Brock didn’t have a great series but those who said Brock was the worst USA players either have a bias against Brock or didn’t watch the games. Kreider got himself benched, Connor got himself scratched and a whole bunch of supposed stars were mostly no shows. The US had maybe 6 or 7 players show up consistently.

Lou please find a way to trade Dobson for Brady T. The country club atmosphere wouldn’t exist with players like Brady around.
 
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Glory Days said:
Brock didn’t have a great series but those who said Brock was the worst USA players either have a bias against Brock or didn’t watch the games. Kreider got himself benched, Connor got himself scratched and a whole bunch of supposed stars were mostly no shows. The US had maybe 6 or 7 players show up consistently.
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That was precisely my take as well. For example, Jack Hughes was supposed to score and the only time I ever noticed him was on his many giveaways.

BTW, was Nelson's icing before the GWG also the play where Canada appeared to have too many men on the ice? If so, he threw the puck right into the change, which is typically the correct play to try to draw the penalty.
 
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PK Cronin said:
I thought he was pretty mediocre and didn't really create much of anything. He has great chemistry with Makar and that helps elevate his status.
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Interesting, I thought he was Slavin-like in his defensive play (not quite as good, as Slavin was dominant defensively out there). Sure Toews didn't generate much offensively, that's Makar's job, but he did a great job shutting down some pretty impressive offensive players. In any case, I guarantee you put any current Islander D-man in his position in this tournament, and they don't look as good as Toews did.
 
Glory Days said:
Brock didn’t have a great series but those who said Brock was the worst USA players either have a bias against Brock or didn’t watch the games. Kreider got himself benched, Connor got himself scratched and a whole bunch of supposed stars were mostly no shows. The US had maybe 6 or 7 players show up consistently.

Lou please find a way to trade Dobson for Brady T. The country club atmosphere wouldn’t exist with players like Brady around.
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If Brady Tkachuk is on the market (which I think Ottawa would be crazy to do short of a massive overpayment), the price for him went up after this tournament. Not sure Dobson gets us that close.
 
what is worse is that too many men no one touched the puck and could have and they still called Icing on that play

like what? how do you call that after missing an obvious too many men call then.
 
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Chockey22 said:
Interesting, I thought he was Slavin-like in his defensive play (not quite as good, as Slavin was dominant defensively out there). Sure Toews didn't generate much offensively, that's Makar's job, but he did a great job shutting down some pretty impressive offensive players. In any case, I guarantee you put any current Islander D-man in his position in this tournament, and they don't look as good as Toews did.
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I haven't looked but I'd be curious what his TOI was when Makar wasn't playing. It's a completely different dynamic when he's on the ice. I think Toews is a very good defenseman by himself but I don't know if he'd warrant being on that team if it weren't for his chemistry with Makar.

Slavin was a better skating Pelech when he was in his prime defensively. Nobody got away from him and he disrupted absolutely everything.
 
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Glory Days said:
Brock didn’t have a great series but those who said Brock was the worst USA players either have a bias against Brock or didn’t watch the games. Kreider got himself benched, Connor got himself scratched and a whole bunch of supposed stars were mostly no shows. The US had maybe 6 or 7 players show up consistently.

Lou please find a way to trade Dobson for Brady T. The country club atmosphere wouldn’t exist with players like Brady around.
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Brady would turn it from a Country Club to a Rum Bottoms . . .
 
I think people are being a little harsh on Nelson, even if he didn't have the best tournament.

He was selected and used in a bottom 6 role. Throughout the tournament it was obvious he was being trusted to just play sound defense, which he did for the most part. It would've been nice to have seen him get some offensive looks but we all know/knew he was one of the less talented players in the tournament. He finished as a -3 (last on the team) in 4 games and two of those came in the last game. The difference between the expectation going in and what we saw wasn't some massive drop off, for me at least. He was slower than other guys and didn't have nearly as much time or space as he does during a regular NHL game and that ultimately hurt him offensively. Defensively it was just a lot of stick on puck and chipping it out. I don't think he made more egregious mistakes than other guys, that's for sure. Not being a standout player during a best on best doesn't mean you lose value when the NHL playoffs aren't anywhere close to the talent level we just saw.

When comparing the expectation of what he was going to bring and then comparing it to some others on the USA roster I think there were a lot of worse players that stood out. Jack Hughes had a single point and is supposed to be a top dog. He didn't get much of anything done and looked completely overwhelmed. JT Miller had zero points and wasn't very effective. Matthews had three points in the tournament but I thought he was pretty invisible most of the time, especially given the fact he's supposed to be a pure goal scorer. He didn't register a goal, didn't bury the chances he did have, and I thought the final game was his best. He had 6 shots in the tournament, which is terrible when you consider I think he had three great looks in just overtime last night and finished that game with 4. His inability to elevate his game when the competition gets harder would be concerning to me if I were a Leafs fan because it seems like a trend. Kyle Connor had a single point and was bad enough (or possibly hurt, I haven't checked) that he was scratched for the last game.

I thought Guentzel was the most consistent forward for USA, and not just because of his goals. Eichel was also very good and dictated play. Matt Boldy had a nice showing too.

Nobody can predict health or use it as much of an excuse but for USA moving forward in international competition having a healthy Tkachuk brothers would go a long way. Nelson, Trocheck, and Kreider all need to be replaced. Hopefully Hughes can grow from this tournament and be more impactful in the next one. Having his brother added to the defense would also go a long way for helping this team generate some more offense.

Defensively I thought Fox had some rough moments, Sanderson stepped in nicely and kept it simple, Werenski, Slavin, Faber, and McAvoy showed they belong for sure. I don't have much worry about the defense moving forward, they were all pretty good. Hellebuyck is great and I don't mind Oettinger either.
 
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Chockey22 said:
Interesting, I thought he was Slavin-like in his defensive play (not quite as good, as Slavin was dominant defensively out there). Sure Toews didn't generate much offensively, that's Makar's job, but he did a great job shutting down some pretty impressive offensive players. In any case, I guarantee you put any current Islander D-man in his position in this tournament, and they don't look as good as Toews did.
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I just took a look at his TOI and he was 3rd when Makar wasn't playing, he was always 2nd in TOI when Makar did play. So he goes from top pairing to second pairing when Makar isn't around. He finished the tournament with 0 points, -1, and had 5 shots. Averaged 24:06 TOI which was good for second on the team by 2:30. Sanheim was the least used defenseman at 17:22 (excluding Theodore who had 6:59, which might've inflated the other guys a little bit). Surprisingly, Harley played 20 and was fourth in TOI for that defense despite only playing two games.
 
PK Cronin said:
Defensively I thought Fox had some rough moments
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I loved your post and agreed with virtually all of it. I would've given more of a shout out to Larkin, who I thought was excellent.

But saying Fox had some rough moments is like saying Bill Buckner had a bad inning in '86. ;) He was horrendous, and probably played himself off of the Olympic team.
 
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