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4 Nations Face Off - Feb 12-20

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ZachaFlockaFlame said:
This Baghdad Bob shit has to f***ing stop, there's clear reason why the dude looked out of sorts. He was playing out of position, we've seen first hand him sucking donkey balls on the wing in NJ with far inferior players. Just because you place a guy on Auston Matthews wing doesn't automatically make them play good. He needs to be a center at any level he plays at. If the US is so f***ing worried about his face-offs, play him with Miller on his wing so he can have someone to shadow him like Haula. Playing out of position on purpose and then being surprised Jack can't be the Jack we see in NJ most of the time is borderline asinine commentary and just fatalistic.
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I can't tell if you're agreeing with me or freaking out at me lol.

Because which is it, then? Is it that he didn't play well because he was on the wing? Or is it "actually, he did play pretty well, and here's the xg% in spreadsheet form to prove it"? There's seemingly two different pushbacks happening here.

I don't disagree that he's never played well on the wing and that likely played into it. But if he wants to play well for the NT, I think he'll need to figure that out. Because he's not going to play center in the top six over Matthews and Eichel. Even taking the "playing on the wing" argument at face value, I'd expect a higher level than we saw. He was bad on the PP too, even if the second unit didn't get as much time.
 
Guttersniped said:
I missed the first period of this game but I feel like Jack played a very safe game.
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Jack was maybe the most dangerous offensive player in the first period.

I agree with the overall point though, he was playing a safe game. We see this in him rarely making a risky pass nor trying to skate through the opposition; 2 things that he’s good at.

USA got less big offensive plays from Hughes but instead got Hughes making lots of defensive plays. Defense isn’t as exciting but people even last year may not have thought Hughes could make a really strong defensive impact to a game.
 
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Jersey Fresh said:
There were serious threads at Jack’s peak in 22-23 asking whether he was #2 behind McDavid haha.

Listen, I’m not here to tear him down. I love him as a player, and when he’s on, he’s a game breaker. I just don’t understand the need to go full Baghdad Bob when he doesn’t play well. He had a bad four games, oh well. The bottom line is his role is to be a difference maker offensively. I don’t give two shits about shot suppression when he’s on the ice or whatever. If he’s not consistently creating, he’s not playing well. And over that four game tournament, there were a lot of times where the puck was dying on his stick.

And I think Jack would be the first to say he wasn’t playing very well.
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He seemed to be deferring a lot, looking for passes and playing defensive hockey. Really up until the end of the game last night where he got a bit more free flowing.

The more I see that ot goal, the more I'm annoyed at Matthews. Like he bombed the game on purpose...
 
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It's also amazing how much Fanatics f***ed up yet again. There's no jerseys available in men's sizes for the USA or Canada. They haven't been available in awhile. The NHL desperately needs to get away from this horrid company that somehow created a monopoly on everything.

Imagine new fans tuning into this tournament and wanting to buy a jersey and there's none available. New USA fans after they beat Canada on Saturday? None available. Canada fans who saw their team win last night and now want to buy one? None available.

This is just like the Devils stadium series jerseys last year. So much money consistently left on the table. It's a joke.
 
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Satans Hockey said:
It's also amazing how much Fanatics f***ed up yet again. There's no jerseys available in men's sizes for the USA or Canada. They haven't been available in awhile. The NHL desperately needs to get away from this horrid company that somehow created a monopoly on everything.

Imagine new fans tuning into this tournament and wanting to buy a jersey and there's none available. New USA fans after they beat Canada on Saturday? None available. Canada fans who saw their team win last night and now want to buy one? None available.

This is just like the Devils stadium series jerseys last year. So much money consistently left on the table. It's a joke.
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They actually put new stock of the US jerseys up a couple of days ago, they sold out essentially overnight.
 
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Jersey Fresh said:
I can't tell if you're agreeing with me or freaking out at me lol.

Because which is it, then? Is it that he didn't play well because he was on the wing? Or is it "actually, he did play pretty well, and here's the xg% in spreadsheet form to prove it"? There's seemingly two different pushbacks happening here.

I don't disagree that he's never played well on the wing and that likely played into it. But if he wants to play well for the NT, I think he'll need to figure that out. Because he's not going to play center in the top six over Matthews and Eichel. Even taking the "playing on the wing" argument at face value, I'd expect a higher level than we saw. He was bad on the PP too, even if the second unit didn't get as much time.
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I think it's just a discussion being had, I quote tweeted you because I think your post caught my ire but I didn't mean to come off as angry or confrontational. Do I think Jack could've been better? 100% but do I also think that Sullivan got outcoached by Cooper? 100%. I don't think Jack should be in the top 6 anyway for the US, he should be the 3C and probably rotate with Larkin as the 4C and whatever line is better out of those two should get more minutes on a game to game basis. Matthews/Eichel/Hughes/Larkin would beat any center combination that Canada would come up for 2026.
 
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I also hope Lou sends Brock Nelson to Siberia so I never have to see that absolute loser ever again. That icing kept the tired guys on the ice that led to face off for the ot goal. He sure as f*** better not be on the Olympic team.
 
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Better Call Sal said:
Oh I agree. The league never fails to trip over its own dick when it comes to making money.
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I don't even feel like it's the leagues fault on this one besides signing with fanatics but it's even hard to blame them on that one when fanatics created this giant monopoly and probably threw big money at them for the license.

They probably would be in such a better position though if they picked a smaller company that would have had way more priority and investment in making sure things were stocked and probably make more money doing it too.

I just wanna see the fanatics monopoly get broken up one day.
 
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Zajacs Bowl Cut said:
yeah sorry, I don't buy this. He literally scored an OT GWG not even a month ago with a bum finger.

Again, I just don't really understand the "he didnt dominate a 10 day tournament so that means he is a disappointment" stuff (not saying you said this, just in general since last night). Yeah, he wasn't great but he wasn't bad either. Like 90% of the players didn't stand out good or bad in this tournament, its whatever. It's a good thing that no team we face in the playoffs is going to have all of McDavid, Crosby, MacKinnon, Makar, etc.
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I can't recall one glaring turnover by Jack the whole tournament and especially vs Canada, he played a smart and safe game and was defensively strong.

He unfortunately got knocked on his ass a few times and that's what sticks out.
 
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I'll put it simply.

Jack creates best off the rush, this is where he thrives and he is among the best in the league.
When this side of the game is surpressed (i.e. in a tight checking game), he becomes much less effective.

That's not a knock on him, that's how he's built. His size and strenght doesn't allow him to be more effective off the cycle.
 
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I'm kind of shocked people are saying bizarre things on here about "why USA lost" as if the USA did not just go toe-to-toe against a team with Connor McDavid, Nate MacKinnon, Sidney Crosby and Cale Maker on it and only barely lose in an overtime where the opposing goaltender made multiple highlight reel saves.

But from the standpoint of a guy who has scouted hockey for years, I'll give it a shot.

1) Cooper out-coached Sullivan: Sullivan's decision to scratch an elite Kyle Connor for Chris Kreider was downright baffling. His constant line switching on a team where players lacked familiarity in the first-place was incorrigible. Predictably, the USA played a hot-and-cold game with little flow. At the end of the game, USA was trapped with a struggling defense pairing against the McDavid line because, despite the home ice advantage, Cooper kept out-maneuvering Sullivan on the match-ups.

2) The Fox/Hanifin pairing was absolutely caved in: On the ice for two of the three Canada goals including the winner, this pairing was defensively liable all tourney long and also contributed next to nothing offensively. On the winning goal Hanifin was in position but Fox or Matthews should have been on a wide-open McDavid in the slot. I'm not going to harp on Matthews because he mostly played a very solid game, Fox did not.

Overall, it was a terrific tourney for the USA. But I also felt the flaws started to show in the Sweden game which, instead of being addressed, were perpetuated -- whereas a better-coached Canada improved all tourney. The brightest light is that USA clearly has the talent to beat any nation on any given night.
 
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Zajacs Bowl Cut said:
For the Olympics:

IN: Q. Hughes, McAvoy, T. Thompson, Keller, Robertson, Beniers
OUT: Hanifin, Sanderson (though I thought he was good), Trocheck, Kreider, Nelson, Miller
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If Sanderson isn't in the 3 pairings he absolutely deserves to be an extra. His skating on a large sheet would be a big plus.
 
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So the issue with why Jack looked bad, yet the advanced stats show he wasn't aside from the first canada game, is he was not the main play driver and was never being hit in transition with breakout passes like he normally is here.

If you can, go back and watch again. When he is here, he's usually doing the McDavid thing of winding up below the red line and taking a pass to then cut through the neutral zone and gaining the zone. He was rarely given those chances, when he was you would notice him in a positive way. Half the time he was stuck being a forechecker going in for a dump and chase which has never been his game, especially on the wing no less.

Also, any time he was open to take the puck, the dmen either botched a pass, put it up the wall, or they hit more veteran players (I think there was some clique veteran shit going on) like Matthews, Miller, Guentzle, Eichel and even Nelson. Jack is a better transition player than all of them over the years, only being behind MacKinnon and McDavid in zone entries. I think if Quinn is there we don't see as much of this crap, he at least has one guy knowing to hit him over most other's he's playing with. Hopefully the US gets a coach that realizes he's a center and not a winger and uses him as such.

So, yea. His usage was ass by the coaching staff and he was forced to play second fiddle and play on the wing instead of center. Once again, proving the fixation on faceoffs is asinine.

And regarding the coaching, Sullivan sucked. Kreider and Tkachuk over Connor is laughable. Connor being stuck with Trocheck and Nelson, also laughable.

He should've tried Connor with Matthews and Jack when it was clear even though he scored a few times, Guentzle was not working with them and seemed like a passanger.

Also the GM's suck. Guerin looks like a bloated turd and is a sack of shit of a person and clearly shit with hockey as well. Get him out of that position. Drury, need I say more? All his guys sucked, Miller, Trocheck, Kreider, Fox, pure ass. Tom? keep him away as well. Dude has yet to fix the Devils glaring issues, which a lot is his own doing.
 
Satans Hockey said:
Consistently the worst takes in this thread about this tournament. Constantly downplaying how big this tournament ended up being and how much this tournament was talked about with different forms of media on TV and social media and how many new eyes were watching because of it so there's no doubt you wouldn't understand that USA winning would bring even more eyes to it.
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Agree to disagree.

I'm tired of arguing.


The regular season awaits.

Time to move on. :boredom:
 
Devils731 said:
the Devils had a playoff series against the Rangers where the Rangers made the game a slog and tried to be as physical as possible to neutralize Hughes and the Devils.

Hughes walked out of that series like he owned the Rangers.

It’s so weird people act like this series didn’t happen.
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this series is an outlier.. its NHL 07 HOF team on both sides. speed and quickness meant little. because they all have it.. . if matthews pots one of those "A" chances in OT, its the great connor mcdavid looking like the loser and having his country turn on him,, he actually played worse than jack. one instant of mental lapse changed everything
 
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