4 Nations Face Off - Feb 12-20

[Whaddagoal]

The 2023 Vegas cup run made me realize that Eichel is easily a top 5 player in the NHL. The way he drives plays is insane.

He dominated a very good Dallas team. I don’t think McDavid even dominated Dallas like he did.

If you didn’t follow stats and just watched Eichel with your eye you’d think he’s the third/4th best player in the league behind McDavid Mackinnon Kucherov

Eichel seemed really strong with the puck (poise), and was able to keep the defense backed up with his movement in the zone, basically the D viewed him as a threat and the space around him was buffered. Sort of the same situation with the other big names you mentioned, the D keep a buffer zone not to look like clowns if they make the wrong move and he goes around.

Now he didn't get a lot of goals, and that's why I'm saying he wasn't spectacular, but I can see that he drives the ozone play and has some hands. Got his points. I mean small sample size of tournament but since this is best on best it stands out a lot.

 

[Whaddagoal]

Brady reminds me of Bobby Holik.

Both by wrecking-ball play and by build and look.

....I think the look is really emphasizing the Holik standard.

 

[Jersey Fresh]

I don’t think anyone ever thought that Jack was at their level. Those players are bigger and stronger. Jack is what he is a talented player who’s on the small side in height and strength. If you think the Devils can do better, Fitz should trade him for someone bigger and stronger if he can.

There were serious threads at Jack’s peak in 22-23 asking whether he was #2 behind McDavid haha.

Listen, I’m not here to tear him down. I love him as a player, and when he’s on, he’s a game breaker. I just don’t understand the need to go full Baghdad Bob when he doesn’t play well. He had a bad four games, oh well. The bottom line is his role is to be a difference maker offensively. I don’t give two shits about shot suppression when he’s on the ice or whatever. If he’s not consistently creating, he’s not playing well. And over that four game tournament, there were a lot of times where the puck was dying on his stick.

And I think Jack would be the first to say he wasn’t playing very well.

 

[Whaddagoal]

damn thats some dedicated lurker trolling.



i'm not saying its possible or it will happen but they should do whatever they can to look into bringing him here. really would balance the type of team we have. if it takes nemec to get an extended brady then im fore it

Mercer, Nemec.... And something else? Would need to free up cap. I'm sure I'll get blasted but I would definitely give up those both for Brady.

 

[SteveCangialosi123]

Sometimes the puck doesn’t go in

 

[Zajacs Bowl Cut]

View attachment 980317

Sometimes the puck doesn’t go in

yeah but did you see when he fell down tho!?!?

 

[Camille the Eel]

One thing with Hughes is I don’t know if he can really work on his poor strength. He is a small guy, not just in terms of height but in overall weight and muscle mass.

The 2023 Vegas cup run made me realize that Eichel is easily a top 5 player in the NHL. The way he drives plays is insane.

He dominated a very good Dallas team. I don’t think McDavid even dominated Dallas like he did.

If you didn’t follow stats and just watched Eichel with your eye you’d think he’s the third/4th best player in the league behind McDavid Mackinnon Kucherov

Eichel: The game winner last night is off a faceoff after an icing, right?

So Canada puts McDavid and Marner out there and if we could change, which we can’t, Sullivan would get Eichel out there to match up on McDavid. And we get a different game result I believe.

But instead Matthews and Hughes are out there, a little gassed, the puck moves fast off a Canada face off win, and Matthew’s makes a mental error leaving McDavid wide open in front of the net and no one within 10 feet of him. Game over.

Would love to have got Eichel out there on that face off.

(And the historical irony that those two were one and two in that same draft lottery).

 

[Satans Hockey]

All the NY/NJ area guys were pretty meh in this tournament, Bratt didn't even create much after his first game. The Rangers guys were especially horrific besides Miller, Fox looked like an old man on the Bennett goal tonight.

He won player of the game in his 3rd game against the US

 

[BostonDevil]

View attachment 980317

Sometimes the puck doesn’t go in

Do we have the numbers for everyone?

 

[Whaddagoal]

yeah but did you see when he fell down tho!?!?

I know you are being facetious with that, (though he did fall in 1 or 2 key puck holds yesterday where the play died, lol)

But obviously that shouldn't measure out he's been bad, or ineffective. Certainly he wasn't bad, but I think for me his play didn't stand out positively, which was disappointing. Either the first or second game he looked pretty good for spurts but last two not as much.

I think what some fans here are coming at is jack hasn't been solidly clutch in the big moments, at least recently. Both in recent weeks with the NJD prior to the tournament and recently with the tournament. There have been moments that he could have sealed the deal and confidently ended the game with a big goal or two, if he could just bury those chances. He had a few last night early, and a lot of those in some of our NJD games OT recently.

In a way he was a bit like Matthews in this tournament. Not bad, but never buried and closed out those key offensive chance moments. He was definitely out muscled in this competition, and whether that will ever change I don't know.

My interpretation: I think some of our fans are frustrated that he isn't having the full impact we want. He was just not standing out and it was a disappointment to some of our fans, for me, he seemed to have a far less impact than I would have hoped.

Maybe it was his linemates, or out of position or whatever, or just the talent gap is so narrow at best on best he becomes less special.

 

[SteveCangialosi123]

Eichel: The game winner last night is off a faceoff after an icing, right?

So Canada puts McDavid and Marner out there and if we could change, which we can’t, Sullivan would get Eichel out there to match up on McDavid. And we get a different game result I believe.

But instead Matthews and Hughes are out there, a little gassed, the puck moves fast off a Canada face off win, and Matthew’s makes a mental error leaving McDavid wide open in front of the net and no one within 10 feet of him. Game over.

Would love to have got Eichel out there on that face off.

(And the historical irony that those two were one and two in that same draft lottery).

Matthews is winning 57% of draws this year to Eichel’s 46%. He did majorly goof leaving the best player in the world open, though.

 

[Zajacs Bowl Cut]

I know you are being facetious with that, (though he did fall in 1 or 2 key puck holds yesterday where the play died, lol)

But obviously that shouldn't measure out he's been bad, or ineffective. Certainly he wasn't bad, but I think for me his play didn't stand out positively, which was disappointing. Either the first or second game he looked pretty good for spurts but last two not as much.

I think what some fans here are coming at is jack hasn't been solidly clutch in the big moments, at least recently. Both in recent weeks with the NJD prior to the tournament and recently with the tournament. There have been moments that he could have sealed the deal and confidently ended the game with a big goal or two, if he could just bury those chances. He had a few last night early, and a lot of those in some of our NJD games OT recently.

In a way he was a bit like Matthews in this tournament. Not bad, but never buried and closed out those key offensive chance moments.

I'm interpretation I think some of our fans are frustrated that he isn't having the full impact we want. He was just not standing out and it was a disappointment to some of our fans.

yeah sorry, I don't buy this. He literally scored an OT GWG not even a month ago with a bum finger.

Again, I just don't really understand the "he didnt dominate a 10 day tournament so that means he is a disappointment" stuff (not saying you said this, just in general since last night). Yeah, he wasn't great but he wasn't bad either. Like 90% of the players didn't stand out good or bad in this tournament, its whatever. It's a good thing that no team we face in the playoffs is going to have all of McDavid, Crosby, MacKinnon, Makar, etc.

 

[SteveCangialosi123]

yeah but did you see when he fell down tho!?!?

I was actually very annoyed with how often he was falling, because that has not happened that much as a Devil for some time. But he was still getting pretty good results, especially considering that he was at wing and has been mostly horrible at wing his whole career.

You’d think the coach would be aware of this? He’s one of the most puck dominant players in the sport. Just stick him with Miller or Larkin to take draws if you’re that concerned about that.

 

[SansaStark]

Watched the game but missed the whole 2nd period. Jack had a great chance to score to put USA up in the 2nd period 2 to 1 and got denied. Wasnt surprised to see him be a -2 this game either on the boxscore. He had a bad a tournament , got top 6 minutes practically every game/powerplay time and did nothing with it. f***ing Chris Kreider scored more than him while barley even touching the ice in 2 games.

Jack is still one of the better/exciting players in the league and I love having him as a Devil and being able to watch him play but he isn't on the same level as some of the elite centers in this league.

He looked like he was over thinking the game when trying to drive the net and play on the cycle. Just took weird routes to the net and would try to get lost down low on the sides of the goal looking for tap in goals. It was frustrating not seeing him hardly ever screen the goalie either. He sucked in the dirty areas of the ice. He also tried to pull his blind risky shuffle passes up the ice instead of making safe plays. ThIs was probably the hardest competition for hockey he has ever played in. It's very easy to critique his game but he is our franchise player and he needs to be better if we are ever going to seriously contented for a Cup.

Couldn't agree more. I watched the tournament trying to keep an open mind about his play after the first game and put some perspective that the level of competition was best-on-best.

I have shifted slightly more towards the middle of my stance on jack, whereas now I think I'm more just in the acceptance phase that this team has no choice but to build around him. Whether he is in that elite tier or not. With Luke, and maybe Quinn down the road - this is a Hughes' & Hischier (he will be resigned) team.

If this iteration of the core is ever going to get to where we want its going to be because of depth and defensive structure. We are not going to be a star-led cup winner. Something akin to the panthers last year although we have no Tkachuk (Timo? ehh ) or Barkov (Nico, yes closer).

But we need to completely overhaul the forward group starting with a 3C. I want ROR. I know thats a pipe dream and means probably byebye Casey. But if this core is going to have a chance at getting past Carolina, its going to have be due to depth and D/Goaltending.

Back to Jack. There is no doubt he needs to get stronger and stay on his feet. But in all seriousness, he is only 23. I want to see Jack at 27. That being said, we have all seen him get to a higher level and I remain extremely curious why we really haven't seen that this year. I would've thought this far removed from the shoulder stuff, it would be better.

 

[Whaddagoal]

yeah sorry, I don't buy this. He literally scored an OT GWG not even a month ago with a bum finger.

Again, I just don't really understand the "he didnt dominate a 10 day tournament so that means he is a disappointment" stuff (not saying you said this, just in general since last night). Yeah, he wasn't great but he wasn't bad either. Like 90% of the players didn't stand out good or bad in this tournament, its whatever. It's a good thing that no team we face in the playoffs is going to have all of McDavid, Crosby, MacKinnon, Makar, etc.

Soley the disappointment is my interpretation - honestly, I just thought he would stand out a lot more. I agree for sure, and originally stated he wasn't bad. He just felt very pedestrian. Ultimately it is a rando tournament (which players put more stock into than some fans) with elite competition, and I do think we shouldnt dig into too much.

But it did make me reflect on his overall impact potential in big games. Time will tell.

Him and Matthews (last night) missed about 4 grade A/B chances combined together which I thought could have buried Canada before OT. And then Matthews bungled his gimme on the chance before Canada came back and scored.

I remember some NJD chances through January where I thought I remembered jack hitting posts a lot, which would have solidified more wins or leads. (And not just jack).

I forgot about the OT jack goal will need to dig back at that. Impression in my head was he was not a clutch recently.

 

[JrFischer54]

Mercer, Nemec.... And something else? Would need to free up cap. I'm sure I'll get blasted but I would definitely give up those both for Brady.

yeah i figured mercer too would be the foward "throw in" thats 4 million going the other way maybe brady doesn't ask for a big time pay day to get a winner. nemec mercer and a draft pick i think you could avoid a first rounder with those two pieces going back. definitely will get blasted for this proposal

 

[Guttersniped]

There were serious threads at Jack’s peak in 22-23 asking whether he was #2 behind McDavid haha.

Listen, I’m not here to tear him down. I love him as a player, and when he’s on, he’s a game breaker. I just don’t understand the need to go full Baghdad Bob when he doesn’t play well. He had a bad four games, oh well. The bottom line is his role is to be a difference maker offensively. I don’t give two shits about shot suppression when he’s on the ice or whatever. If he’s not consistently creating, he’s not playing well. And over that four game tournament, there were a lot of times where the puck was dying on his stick.

And I think Jack would be the first to say he wasn’t playing very well.

I missed the first period of this game but I feel like Jack played a very safe game.

I think he wanted to play responsibly and take what offensive opportunities came. Felt like he didn’t want make notable gaffe that ended in their net.

He’s played better before, and I don’t see us winning with when he’s playing so cautiously, but he wasn’t bad.

 

[ZachaFlockaFlame]

He won player of the game in his 3rd game against the US

Yeah but his xG wasn't that high as we're used to with Bratt in most games, he cooled off a bit from the shot creation standpoint, the goal v the US was a quick strike type of thing.

I was surprised how much speed he has. Kid is going to be a stud if he isn't already.

That's one of the worse draft predictions I had, I didn't think he'd be that good and was a bit afraid of taking him at 7 in 2020. He's been AWESOME since he's turned pro for Ottawa as well.

 

[ZachaFlockaFlame]

There were serious threads at Jack’s peak in 22-23 asking whether he was #2 behind McDavid haha.

Listen, I’m not here to tear him down. I love him as a player, and when he’s on, he’s a game breaker. I just don’t understand the need to go full Baghdad Bob when he doesn’t play well. He had a bad four games, oh well. The bottom line is his role is to be a difference maker offensively. I don’t give two shits about shot suppression when he’s on the ice or whatever. If he’s not consistently creating, he’s not playing well. And over that four game tournament, there were a lot of times where the puck was dying on his stick.

And I think Jack would be the first to say he wasn’t playing very well.

This Baghdad Bob shit has to f***ing stop, there's clear reason why the dude looked out of sorts. He was playing out of position, we've seen first hand him sucking donkey balls on the wing in NJ with far inferior players. Just because you place a guy on Auston Matthews wing doesn't automatically make them play good. He needs to be a center at any level he plays at. If the US is so f***ing worried about his face-offs, play him with Miller on his wing so he can have someone to shadow him like Haula. Playing out of position on purpose and then being surprised Jack can't be the Jack we see in NJ most of the time is borderline asinine commentary and just fatalistic.

 

[Satans Hockey]

What momentum?

There was never any momentum to begin with.


Saturday is just going to be the NHL season resuming.

The Devils are in a good spot in the standings still.


But if you want to talk momentum anyway?

How about BRATT bringing his "momentum" off that game-winner against the U.S., and using it against Dallas this Saturday?

Consistently the worst takes in this thread about this tournament. Constantly downplaying how big this tournament ended up being and how much this tournament was talked about with different forms of media on TV and social media and how many new eyes were watching because of it so there's no doubt you wouldn't understand that USA winning would bring even more eyes to it.

 

[ZachaFlockaFlame]

I missed the first period of this game but I feel like Jack played a very safe game.

I think he wanted to play responsibly and take what offensive opportunities came. Felt like he didn’t want make notable gaffe that ended in their net.

He’s played better before, and I don’t see us winning with when he’s playing so cautiously, but he wasn’t bad.

He also went from having Auston Matthews and Jake Guentzel on his wing to Brock Nelson/Trocheck/Miller with him, the US was also playing with virtually 10 forwards since Matt Tkachuk pulled himself out again and Kreider is a useless turd

 

[Satans Hockey]

Also pretty crazy that the designated home team went 0-7 for this whole thing.

 

[Whaddagoal]

Couldn't agree more. I watched the tournament trying to keep an open mind about his play after the first game and put some perspective that the level of competition was best-on-best.

I have shifted slightly more towards the middle of my stance on jack, whereas now I think I'm more just in the acceptance phase that this team has no choice but to build around him. Whether he is in that elite tier or not. With Luke, and maybe Quinn down the road - this is a Hughes' & Hischier (he will be resigned) team.

If this iteration of the core is ever going to get to where we want its going to be because of depth and defensive structure. We are not going to be a star-led cup winner. Something akin to the panthers last year although we have no Tkachuk (Timo? ehh ) or Barkov (Nico, yes closer).

But we need to completely overhaul the forward group starting with a 3C. I want ROR. I know thats a pipe dream and means probably byebye Casey. But if this core is going to have a chance at getting past Carolina, its going to have be due to depth and D/Goaltending.

Back to Jack. There is no doubt he needs to get stronger and stay on his feet. But in all seriousness, he is only 23. I want to see Jack at 27. That being said, we have all seen him get to a higher level and I remain extremely curious why we really haven't seen that this year. I would've thought this far removed from the shoulder stuff, it would be better.

The last point is what jack should focus on. He can never completely change his build type, but he can definitely bulk up on his own frame.

Jack is a phenomenal talent, but I am not resigned that we are anchored to him as a remotely bad thing. He has so much untapped path forward, just need to figure out how to build around him, Nico, Bratt, Luke.

Meier was a good first attempt by Fitz, It hasn't fully planned out yet the way we thought it would (I believe timos injuries have really hampered his game a lot more, maybe it will always be that way or get better). Same with Pesce for Luke. I think the current team is getting there, we saw spurts of brilliance from the team in December.

I agree this is a Jack and Nico and Bratt team (potentially with Luke added to it)

Timo is a partial Brady, and not quite the Matthew Tk, neither are completely equivalent. Timo is more skilled but a step below the physicality to Brady. And less skilled and around, slightly less physicality as Matthew T.

Honestly not a bad place to be for him. I wish we had an additional Timo that was closer to the Brady, then you'd have the older holik style bruising line with decent skill.

Nico is close to Barkov, very close.

Need 3rd line depth and probably someone who is better than 3C to play on 3rd line, Whomever that is.

 

[NjDevsRR]

Trocheck broke his finger

 

[Satans Hockey]

Trocheck broke his finger

That makes sense, I remember him going to the bench vs Sweden and was staring at his hand after he blocked a shot.