HF Habs: 4 Nations Face-Off: Canada beats Finland 5-3; advances to Finals vs USA

[HabsCode]

Marchand & Stone shouldn't be here. They're too slow & can't forecheck. Both were perimeter players last night.

Hyman, Suzuki, Wilson, and Schiefele should all be here over Marchand, Stone, Cirelli & Jarvis.

Basically the guys a lot of people said shouldn't be on this team are proving they shouldn't be on this team.

Despite average goaltending, Montreal has the 8th best pk in NHL. Suzuki is a big part of that. He's also an inside player and strong on the boards. Kid's a bull.

Wilson is a huge part of Washington's pk can play with elite players, can skate & can bring jam. This team is missing a lot of jam.

I was going with players already selectioned (and taught for some reason mistakenly that Sheifele was invited).

 

[VT]

The US has 10x our population. It was only a matter of time (and money) that they'd catch up and surpass us. They're putting a lot of money into development, and Hockey Canada has been a huge mess for years. I saw an article recently that said that there are 70% less goalies in Canadian youth hockey now than there were 20 years ago.

I don't know what Hockey Canada can do to become the #1 hockey nation again, but it won't be easy.

But in Canada, hockey is the #1 sport; in the U.S., american football, basketball and baseball, including college competitions, are ahead of it. Especially in the southern states. Also the popularity of soccer is increasing.

And soccer can be played everywhere. You take a ball, 4 stones on two nets and play. And there are enough immigrants from Central America in the southern states where soccer is the #1 sport.

 

[LaP]

But in Canada, hockey is the #1 sport; in the U.S., american football, basketball and baseball, including college competitions, are ahead of it. Especially in the southern states. Also the popularity of soccer is increasing.

And soccer can be played everywhere. You take a ball, 4 stones on two nets and play. And there are enough immigrants from Central America in the southern states where soccer is the #1 sport.

Yes but there's 334 millions people in US and 40 in Canada,

10% of US population gives you a pool of 34 millions people. 90% of Canadian population gives you a pool of 36 millions people. A sports can be totally irrelevant in the US and still have a pool of athletes bigger than most countries. Always found cringe to compare countries with less than 10 millions people like Finland to countries with cities bigger than that. When i look at what Finland does with 5 millions people and what Sweden does with 10 millions people i think they are easily number 1 and 2 when it comes to hockey program and it's not even close tbh.

 

[HuGo Sham]

Tough to lose Makar, Theodore, and Pietrangelo.

I thought Morrissey looked very slick and mobile. Toews has a good mix of mobility and toughness.

With the need for both speed and toughness, Guhle could get a spot in his prime - if the injuries don't start to take their toll.

The injury losses are 100% true. But all 4 teams are dealing with injury issues.
I didn't find Canada to be that slow, but I found many of the forwards kind of soft. Once the US decided (as did Sweden) to clog the neutral zone and collapse in front of the goalie, it was going to be up to the team to get in the dirty areas.
Hellebuyck doesn't give up bad goals - unless it's the playoffs .
Canada has always had that blend of power and skill but this team lacks it.
Throw in the injuries on D and a goalie who can't make key saves, and they were in trouble against another elite team.
The US couldn't compete with a McD and McK but they didn't't have to - and once they scored the 2nd goal, they implemented a system that negated the forwards, we were doomed. Makar would've been very helpful as he can play rover and play in the slot once the US collapsed down low, but what ifs are irrelevant now.
I had already posted the nepotism element as well. Cooper went with 3 players he knows well, looking for guys who can gel immediately - that's another factor here. We can certainly debate those choices

 

[SpeedyPotato]

Hutson should be a lock very soon as well. Canada will get more talented, but not harder to play against. The US have so many studs coming up as well it won't matter much. Team Canada has always been an 'old boys' club, will never change

Hutson is American

 

[dinodebino]

The US has 10x our population. It was only a matter of time (and money) that they'd catch up and surpass us. They're putting a lot of money into development, and Hockey Canada has been a huge mess for years. I saw an article recently that said that there are 70% less goalies in Canadian youth hockey now than there were 20 years ago.

I don't know what Hockey Canada can do to become the #1 hockey nation again, but it won't be easy.

They haven’t surpassed us . Lots of noise in this forum from some posters about the greatness of the USDP. Fine and dandy. But 4 of the last 5 first overall draft choices have been Canadian. Bedard and Celebrini are superstars in the making. Makar is still young. The core that is this team (big three players) has no competition on the international scene, aside from Q. Hughes. And they will be a factor in 2026, no doubt.

This edition is suffering from bad picks as usual.

Canada had a lull from 2016 to 2019 in talent development, probably and that is why the US team seems better right now.

Yes, we lack goaltending strength, but it’s a cycle and it’ll come back. I mean, the Finns were IT about 3-4 seasons ago, and now, it’s all about the Russians.

Where Hockey Canada needs to be better is not relying on coaches’ biases. It killed us in 1996-1998-2006. Let’s remember that these are the last editions where we did not win the gold. Been a while.

US has been good at hockey for more than 30 years. The 1996 team was elite. Twice as good as this squad is. Not even close. Look at how many HOF played for that US team. Nothing new here: Leetch, Hatcher bros, Housley, Chelios, Modano, LeClair, Amonte, Guerin, Hull, LaFontaine, Tkachuk, Suter; Otto, Ritcher. That was a HELL of a team. So no, they have not surpassed us; they’ve been our equals for years. We did beat them at every important pro comp since then.

 

[The Gr8 Dane]

Maybe we should start putting more kids in hockey ( My kids will be playing soccer thank you very much ).

American school hockey programs >>>>> Paying 20K a year for your kid to play juniors in a rinky dinky village

 

[VT]

Yes but there's 334 millions people in US and 40 in Canada,

10% of US population gives you a pool of 34 millions people. 90% of Canadian population gives you a pool of 36 millions people. A sports can be totally irrelevant in the US and still have a pool of athletes bigger than most countries. Always found cringe to compare countries with less than 10 millions people like Finland to countries with cities bigger than that. When i look at what Finland does with 5 millions people and what Sweden does with 10 millions people i think they are easily number 1 and 2 when it comes to hockey program and it's not even close tbh.

They were comparing population numbers overall, which was statistically incorrect.

 

[ChesterNimitz]

Canada never ices the best team possible.

Canada never ‘ices’ the best management team.

Anyone with a half a brain could foresee that the team selected would be caught slow.

As I noted above, it was painful to watch the coaches looking up and down their bench to find anyone who could skate and keep up with McDavid and McKinnon. The type of speed you need to win today’s game. The U.S. knew it and gang tackled McDavid when he was on the ice and they didn’t care about anyone else on his line because they knew that that player couldn’t beat their defenceman in one on one rush situations. Take-a- away McDavid and you beat Canada.

It’s an awful feeling to realize that you’ve been caught slow. And the fools who selected this team are now sick with that realization.

It will take a superhuman effort from McDavid, McKinnon and Makar to win this tournament. They won’t be receiving much help from anyone else.

 

[Ozmodiar]

The US has 10x our population. It was only a matter of time (and money) that they'd catch up and surpass us. They're putting a lot of money into development, and Hockey Canada has been a huge mess for years. I saw an article recently that said that there are 70% less goalies in Canadian youth hockey now than there were 20 years ago.

I don't know what Hockey Canada can do to become the #1 hockey nation again, but it won't be easy.

15 years ago USA hockey came up with their ADM (American development model). They looked at Finland and Sweden, their own NTDP, and other sports, to see what could be put to use in US hockey development.

Some keys are athletic development, technical skill development, and retention.

It’s paying dividends now.

Canada is a dinosaur- focus on “elite” at young age, players locked into positions, win-loss focused. Took forever to move tykes to small ice. I’ve heard one organization ask a u13 BB coach candidate “can you get the team to .500?”. Not “what’s your development plan?”.

 

[overlords]

Tkachuks, if you're going to start fights, at least learn to fight. Hagel is not a fighter and even if it looked like a draw, is embarrassing. Bennett likes the rough stuff but is also not really a fighter and Brady barely won.

Should have brought Wilson

 

[Ozmodiar]

Marchand & Stone shouldn't be here. They're too slow & can't forecheck. Both were perimeter players last night.

Hyman, Suzuki, Wilson, and Schiefele should all be here over Marchand, Stone, Cirelli & Jarvis.

Basically the guys a lot of people said shouldn't be on this team are proving they shouldn't be on this team.

Despite average goaltending, Montreal has the 8th best pk in NHL. Suzuki is a big part of that. He's also an inside player and strong on the boards. Kid's a bull.

Wilson is a huge part of Washington's pk can play with elite players, can skate & can bring jam. This team is missing a lot of jam.

Yeah, I really believe Suzuki’s IQ would have seen him gel another top end player.

 

[OldCraig71]

@Habs, Team Canada should have added our star Pezzetta to the roster.

 

[Canadienna]

Punched his own helmet off lol

 

[Habs]

Hutson is American

yeah sorry i meant to brag how good USA will be with him and Cole coming lol ended up coming out wrong. Some really good Dmen coming for Canada from last year's draft, plus Dupont !

@Habs, Team Canada should have added our star Pezzetta to the roster.

Pezz, Jackeye!

 

[Ozmodiar]

They haven’t surpassed us . Lots of noise in this forum from some posters about the greatness of the USDP. Fine and dandy. But 4 of the last 5 first overall draft choices have been Canadian. Bedard and Celebrini are superstars in the making. Makar is still young. The core that is this team (big three players) has no competition on the international scene, aside from Q. Hughes. And they will be a factor in 2026, no doubt.

This edition is suffering from bad picks as usual.

Canada had a lull from 2016 to 2019 in talent development, probably and that is why the US team seems better right now.

Yes, we lack goaltending strength, but it’s a cycle and it’ll come back. I mean, the Finns were IT about 3-4 seasons ago, and now, it’s all about the Russians.

Where Hockey Canada needs to be better is not relying on coaches’ biases. It killed us in 1996-1998-2006. Let’s remember that these are the last editions where we did not win the gold. Been a while.

US has been good at hockey for more than 30 years. The 1996 team was elite. Twice as good as this squad is. Not even close. Look at how many HOF played for that US team. Nothing new here: Leetch, Hatcher bros, Housley, Chelios, Modano, LeClair, Amonte, Guerin, Hull, LaFontaine, Tkachuk, Suter; Otto, Ritcher. That was a HELL of a team. So no, they have not surpassed us; they’ve been our equals for years. We did beat them at every important pro comp since then.

20 years ago 15% of NHL’ers were US born.
Now it’s up to 29%. Mostly at the expense of Canada.

They’re on pace to surpass Canada in a little over 10 years.

 

[BozoTheClown]

This is such a bad team after line 1 lol

Brandon Hagel – Brayden Point – Mark Stone
Sam Bennett – Anthony Cirelli – Travis Konecny
Seth Jarvis

Yeah!
Scheifele, Suzuki and Wilson would have been better than Jarvis, Bennett and Cirelli. I also think Powers, Bouchard, Chychrun and Hamilton over Toews and Sanheim.

 

[LaP]

Canada never ‘ices’ the best management team.

Anyone with a half a brain could foresee that the team selected would be caught slow.

As I noted above, it was painful to watch the coaches looking up and down their bench to find anyone who could skate and keep up with McDavid and McKinnon. The type of speed you need to win today’s game. The U.S. knew it and gang tackled McDavid when he was on the ice and they didn’t care about anyone else on his line because they knew that that player couldn’t beat their defenceman in one on one rush situations. Take-a- away McDavid and you beat Canada.

It’s an awful feeling to realize that you’ve been caught slow. And the fools who selected this team are now sick with the realization.

It will take a superhuman effort from McDavid, McKinnon and Makar to win this tournament. They won’t be receiving much help from anyone else.

Slow is not the only problem of this team. Hagel is not slow and every games i was left wondering wth he was doing on the team. At this level of competition he loos like an AHL player.

 

[JianYang]

Man bring back the days of

Pronger-MacInnis
Bourque-Blake
Stevens-Foote


Shoutout to Keith-Weber

People talk about goaltending drop but we don't talk about the drop on defence.

With or without makar, the top 4 today compared to the top 4 a decade ago is not as good.

Keith, Weber, Prime Doughty, and pieterangelo is an excellent top 4, and the generation before that was insanely good too.

The top end talent at forward still holds up for Canada today but everything else has taken a dip.

 

[Rapala]

Canada never ices the best team possible.

My wife asked me if an American picked our team earlier this morning.

 

[Skip Bayless]

This has probably been posted ad nauseum since last night. But I want nothing to do with Mitch Marner on this team, not even at a discount.

 

[dinodebino]

20 years ago 15% of NHL’ers were US born.
Now it’s up to 29%. Mostly at the expense of Canada.

They’re on pace to surpass Canada in a little over 10 years.

Fair. Nothing to do with talent. I can also add that international talent will also grow in numbers. I find that awesome. Look at MLB: US doesn’t have the upper hand anymore. Even in pure talent. Heck, arguably the best baseball player EVER could be Japanese! I find that refreshing.

 

[Gravity]

20 years ago 15% of NHL’ers were US born.
Now it’s up to 29%. Mostly at the expense of Canada.

They’re on pace to surpass Canada in a little over 10 years.

That's also a consequence of the majority of NHL teams being situated in the US. Canadian player gets drafted to US team, settles down there and has kids born in the states. Those kids now become NHLers who represent 'Murica internationally.

 

[llwyd]

From a Finnish perspective your junior system is brutally wasteful - we need to nurse our talent, you have the masses just to let them fight it out which can be bit random actually. Anyway, the numbers are so different that we can't probably make meaningful comparisons.

 

[HabsCode]

This has probably been posted ad nauseum since last night. But I want nothing to do with Mitch Marner on this team, not even at a discount.

Marner gets too much shit in this tournament. He wasn’t brought to be the leader of this team. A lot of player on team Canada performed under expectations in this tournament, and he did score the only Canadian GWG so far.

Marner is a skilled forward good for 95+ points in the reg season. Not bad in playoffs either (near PPG). He isn’t a leader powerforward but definitely a winger any team would benefit having at the right price.

While it won’t happen because someone will break the bank for him and it won’t be Hughes, he would instantly be the best winger on the team.