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4 Nations Cup Discussion

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Are you excited about 4 Nations Cup?

  • Yes

    Votes: 72 31.2%

  • No

    Votes: 65 28.1%

  • Indifferent

    Votes: 91 39.4%

  • Other: Explain your reasoning with a post

    Votes: 3 1.3%
  • Total voters
    231
Martin Skoula said:
So is it just laziness then? He wants to put in the work to play D but flicking his wrists is just too much work for him?
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I think we all watch enough Matthews to see there’s a lot going on there.

First, he’s got an incredible skillset, prototypical franchise center build, can be a bull out there, greatest goal scorer of his generation, half generation whatever. Leafs big hope in winning a championship. Probably our best player of all time. If not on cruise control get there statistically. All that stuff.

He can play the game any way he wants 200 feet and has always been above average defensively, with some whispering Selke. I personally don’t, but not a big deal. He can win faceoffs. Block shots, dabbles in penalty killing.

Problem is he can struggle with consistency in effort and intensity. A lot of stretches it’s hard to predict what version of the above you get. Also pound for pound isn’t what you would call tough, doesn’t have an ability to elevate emotionally, so looks flat when everyone else cranks it up.

The other factor that has crept in lately is his injuries. Contrast with Ovechkin, Russian Machine Never Breaks, Matthews is American Made In Need of Shop Time. You can’t go a run with the conditioning or the health or the interest level fading.

And now on the American team he’s entered into his maintenance cycle in a 4 game tournament where he’s taking on backseat support duties while others shine. Meanwhile, Sidney Crosby is 38 and still finding ways to step up massively when the moment calls for it.

Maybe we just take a step back and say this guy isn’t a Top 10 or 15 or 20 player in the game right now.
 
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Stephen said:
I think we all watch enough Matthews to see there’s a lot going on there.

First, he’s got an incredible skillset, prototypical franchise center build, can be a bull out there, greatest goal scorer of his generation, half generation whatever. Leafs big hope in winning a championship. Probably our best player of all time. If not on cruise control get there statistically. All that stuff.

He can play the game any way he wants 200 feet and has always been above average defensively, with some whispering Selke. I personally don’t, but not a big deal. He can win faceoffs. Block shots, dabbles in penalty killing.

Problem is he can struggle with consistency in effort and intensity. A lot of stretches it’s hard to predict what version of the above you get. Also pound for pound isn’t what you would call tough, doesn’t have an ability to elevate emotionally, so looks flat when everyone else cranks it up.

The other factor that has crept in lately is his injuries. Contrast with Ovechkin, Russian Machine Never Breaks, Matthews is American Made In Need of Shop Time. You can’t go a run with the conditioning or the health or the interest level fading.

And now on the American team he’s entered into his maintenance cycle in a 4 game tournament where he’s taking on backseat support duties while others shine. Meanwhile, Sidney Crosby is 38 and still finding ways to step up massively when the moment calls for it.

Maybe we just take a step back and say this guy isn’t a Top 10 or 15 or 20 player in the game right now.
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I’m not addressing the intensity or the emotional leadership or whatever, some of it I agree on and there’s some omissions I might even add regarding the things that leave you wanting. I’m talking purely about drops in production where 90% of the difference is that he’s flicking his wrists not so good and missing the net instead of flicking his wrists real good and going top corner in his sleep. Connecting purely that one element to a bad work rate is a strange argument. If he was half assing it on D, not skating, and not getting open for shot attempts ok fair point. But he is doing those things for the most part he’s just missing open nets when he gets the shot, I question how that’s a laziness/lack of intensity thing when it’s quite literally supposed to be the easiest lowest effort part of the game for a goal scorer.

The goal per game streaks, I don’t find that he’s playing significantly differently, just everything he touches is a threat to go in regardless of how bad the pass was or how many bodies there are between him and the net. Honestly some of his best playoff style hockey has been when the shot isn’t clicking and he turns into Kreider Deluxe around the net instead. The middle ground version where he can shoot for brief spurts but isn’t banged up enough to go full Holmstrom every game is the worst of the 3 options between can shoot, can’t shoot, and sometimes can’t but not often enough to adjust his game.
 
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Martin Skoula said:
I’m not addressing the intensity or the emotional leadership or whatever, some of it I agree on and there’s some omissions I might even add regarding the things that leave you wanting. I’m talking purely about drops in production where 90% of the difference is that he’s flicking his wrists not so good and missing the net instead of flicking his wrists real good and going top corner in his sleep. Connecting purely that one element to a bad work rate is a strange argument. If he was half assing it on D, not skating, and not getting open for shot attempts ok fair point. But he is doing those things for the most part he’s just missing open nets when he gets the shot, I question how that’s a laziness/lack of intensity thing when it’s quite literally supposed to be the easiest lowest effort part of the game for a goal scorer.

The goal per game streaks, I don’t find that he’s playing significantly differently, just everything he touches is a threat to go in regardless of how bad the pass was or how many bodies there are between him and the net. Honestly some of his best playoff style hockey has been when the shot isn’t clicking and he turns into Kreider Deluxe around the net instead. The middle ground version where he can shoot for brief spurts but isn’t banged up enough to go full Holmstrom every game is the worst of the 3 options between can shoot, can’t shoot, and sometimes can’t but not often enough to adjust his game.
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Oh I’m not supporting the idea that he’s “too lazy to shoot.” That’s reductive and shooting wouldn’t be one of the harder tasks anyway. I think his big flaw even when healthy is he’s got an inconsistent drive. Compared to Mike Babcock’s elite drive train player, I think it’s the opposite. He’s an elite player with an inconsistent drive train.

In any case I think the key to whether he’s on or not is not shooting but his skating.
 
notDatsyuk said:
Everywhere except for a few posters here, they consider goals to be worth more than assists, so they rank them that way. Willy is still tied for 20th.
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francis246 said:
Did you ever notice that whenever Matthews goes through a stretch when he is lacking offensively, he suddenly is nursing an injury? His PR team is incredible at that.
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His track record would say that when healthy he is the best goal scorer in the league so I would guess that there is some validity to it.

His worse season in the past 5 has been 40 goals ( I doubt he gets there this year) which most players would kill for, and for the most part he still plays a strong two way game.

I understand that until they collectively win in the playoffs, they will be scrutinized and under the microscope but I don't quite understand why we question players injuries when it's a common occurance in sports
 
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Jozay said:
All 3 look unimpressive in this tourney so far. Par for the course.
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Of all the things said in this thread, I have to agree with this the most. The tourney as a whole has been outstanding, but our boys don't seem to perform compared to their price point s. I'm not singling one of them out in particular, they're all guilty imo.

1g 3a combined isn't better than 37 year old Crosby and our boys are on average $4M more each.

Pretty crazy when you break it down.
 
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ACC1224 said:
Reading Coopers comments confirmed the logical thought that the line shakeup is more finding the right mix than any ridiculous demotion fantasy.
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The actual in fact demotion including loss of TOI and quality of linemate and competition is a fantasy?

That's the best one yet lol

ACC does the jedi mind trick and the Naked Gun Nothing to see here.
 
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Smif said:
Of all the things said in this thread, I have to agree with this the most. The tourney as a whole has been outstanding, but our boys don't seem to perform compared to their price point s. I'm not singling one of them out in particular, they're all guilty imo.

1g 3a combined isn't better than 37 year old Crosby and our boys are on average $4M more each.

Pretty crazy when you break it down.
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Because they are simply not as good as many Leaf fans thing they are……..hence the 1 round win in 8 years
 
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thewave said:
The actual in fact demotion including loss of TOI and quality of linemate and competition is a fantasy?

That's the best one yet lol

ACC does the jedi mind trick and the Naked Gun Nothing to see here.
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Some people just can’t handle the truth so they turn to the old standard…..the truth is what I say it is. Lol
 
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ACC1224 said:
It’s weird the struggle some are having with plain English.
In my experience the obvious answer is usually the right one, Cooper just confirmed it.
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Sure, it's all we really have. It's possible that Cooper has come to the same conclusion as some on the board, but that is an extremely remote possibility. I'm also certain that what he communicates to the media is carefully selected, considered, and measured; however, that does not lead to a conclusion that aligns with those who have an anti-Marner agenda.

Racer88 said:
Some people just can’t handle the truth so they turn to the old standard…..the truth is what I say it is. Lol
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Truth. They even make up stuff and spin quotes to confirm their bias and advance their agendas.
 
Leaf Fans said:
Sure, it's all we really have. It's possible that Cooper has come to the same conclusion as some on the board, but that is an extremely remote possibility. I'm also certain that what he communicates to the media is carefully selected, considered, and measured; however, that does not lead to a conclusion that aligns with those who have an anti-Marner agenda.
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Yeah it’s all so weird.

Anyway sounds like the same lineup for Thursday which seemed to be the best we seen so far.
 
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ACC1224 said:
Yeah it’s all so weird.

Anyway sounds like the same lineup for Thursday which seemed to be the best we seen so far.
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Yup, at least to start the game.

LeafEgo said:
So Marner didn't get demoted, it just so happens that playing the least amount of minutes at the bottom of the lineup is the 'best fit' for him?

I have about a hundred follow up questions but will sit on it for now. Still one more game to play out!
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He didn't play the least amount of minutes.
 
Don’t agree on 34. He has been good especially on the D side Not generating many quality shots but overall I think he has played well with Hughes.

Marners goal got them here. But I do find it interesting that for the first time in his career he isn’t just granted top pp and top line status. His play didn’t warrant staying in the top six. Watched mins fade and was over looked several times in the dying minutes trying to protect the lead.

Many Leaf fans see him as entitled. Think he needed a reality check. Finally some accountability. If he sees himself as a top 5 paid player in the league prove it
 
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