4 Nations Cup Discussion

[usernamezrhardtodo]

Funny cuz Mitch got everything a superstar of his calibre should want to get for Canada (playing with the best player in the game and one fo the top goal scorers) and by game 3 he is basically in the 8-12 forward slot.

From 3-5 to 8-12 in 3 games.

12+ million dollar player though LMAO

I really don't understand how this showing (unless he goes nuts in the final) by Marner isn't the semi-final nail in his Leafs coffin. If he does this in the playoffs ...again...how can you consider keeping him, let alone paying him more than AM?

He is great during the free skating periods like the 3 v 3 or regular season but just isn't who you need when the going gets rough.

We missed the boat on trading him multiple times...but I think keeping him for some crazy contract is going to make things worse.

 

[thewave]

The tourney is so short, we can actually have a memory of all the games.

I didnt really see any Matthews errors leading to goals against (more McDavid being McJesus on the only goal against he was on for), Nylander had a rough goal against Canada and Marner had the EN drop pass gaffe. (we sentence you to play with Cirelli!)

Overall they havnt been a problem in that department for their teams.

Nylander was a mess vs Canada and reasonably good in the other games.

Matthews has been solid. Probably playing injured as was anticipated by some. Still playing good competitive minutes less the goals.

Marner looked slow and lost like Alex Nylander did when he was up. McDavid just moves far to fast for Marner to keep up, they have zero chemistry. He had some solid special teams shifts and that's about it. The EN drop pass was the final nail in the coffin. He is not at the top 20-30 players level in the league when it's on. He just isn't that guy, in this tournament Nylander looks to be the better player actually.

 

[1specter]

I would lump the 11.5 million PPG player in, personally.

I don't really care what you say, because you've shown you glaze Marner and love to make Willy your whipping boy.

 

[ULF_55]

Nylander was a mess vs Canada and reasonably good in the other games.

Playing his off-side on the smaller ice might help set up changes with the Leafs.

He's played off-wing on the Olympic surfaces, but those 13 feet differences must come into play.

Maybe it gives Berube / Treliving options going forward?

 

[thewave]

Playing his off-side on the smaller ice might help set up changes with the Leafs.

He's played off-wing on the Olympic surfaces, but those 13 feet differences must come into play.

Maybe it gives Berube / Treliving options going forward?

I hope so. Berube and Tre have jerked him around a lot this season. I hope this tournament opens their minds a bit about what they really have. It's been an eye opener for me.

 

[ACC1224]

Is there a 3rd place game or have those players gone back to their teams?

 

[Zybalto]

Nylander was a mess vs Canada and reasonably good in the other games.

Matthews has been solid. Probably playing injured as was anticipated by some. Still playing good competitive minutes less the goals.

Marner looked slow and lost like Alex Nylander did when he was up. McDavid just moves far to fast for Marner to keep up, they have zero chemistry. He had some solid special teams shifts and that's about it. The EN drop pass was the final nail in the coffin. He is not at the top 20-30 players level in the league when it's on. He just isn't that guy, in this tournament Nylander looks to be the better player actually.

I didnt think Nylander looked all that great vs. Finland either.

Reinhart looked worse than Marner and was pulled off the line in the 2nd (while Marner stayed till the end of the period) after blowing his defensive assignment before the lines went in the blender.

In the end the lines looked good the last game (the 4th the one having any real issues IMO) and thats whats most important.

 

[Stephen]

The tourney is so short, we can actually have a memory of all the games.

I didnt really see any Matthews errors leading to goals against (more McDavid being McJesus on the only goal against he was on for), Nylander had a rough goal against Canada and Marner had the EN drop pass gaffe. (we sentence you to play with Cirelli!)

Overall they havnt been a problem in that department for their teams.

To me, the biggest problem with this Matthews focus on being a matchup center is it’s an abdication of being an impact player for the US, leading with offense, being the straw that stirs the drink. Someone else is doing that job and those guys are division rivals.

We don’t have another guy on the Leafs who is going to be the star centerman in the playoffs, to do all the emotional uplift, so Matthews can play the role of quiet captain and defensive conscience.

 

[Zybalto]

To me, the biggest problem with this Matthews focus on being a matchup center is it’s an abdication of being an impact player for the US, leading with offense, being the straw that stirs the drink. Someone else is doing that job and those guys are division rivals.

We don’t have another guy on the Leafs who is going to be the star centerman in the playoffs, to do all the emotional uplift, so Matthews can play the role of quiet captain and defensive conscience.

When you have a deep star studded lineup like the states, you do have that luxury. Theres more than enough scoring, D and all backed up by the best goalie in the world so its actually the perfect role for Matthews, the best defensive center on the team.....and its played out perfectly with him in the lineup.

Hard to argue with success.

 

[Zybalto]

I don’t know. I heard he was headed to Boston according to coach Sullivan.

Didnt Harley get word to travel to Montreal and be ready but had to wait for permission? He wasnt even allowed to practice as long as Makar was on the ice when he landed.

Weird rules here.

 

[HolyCrap]

The Olympic team will be stronger.

Scheifele, Hyman, Thomas, Bedard, Wilson, Kyrou, Cellebrini, Chychrun, Fantilli??, Guenther, Johnson, Strome, Vilardi, Harley, Bouchard, etc should get strong consideration IMO.

Plus Marner will most likely be wearing the C and will be an excellent Crosby replacement.

 

[Nineteen67]

Oh for sure.

Interestingly, Marner doesnt just have good 5v5 results, he got some of the best 5v5 results of any forward in the playoffs.



Much like it was up in the air when Theodore went down and we were only allowed a replacement once we lost Makar as well, I thought you needed 2 injuries to insert a new player.

I’m not sure, I heard Sullivan say Hughes was on his way to Beantown.

 

[Zybalto]

Id like to add that Harley was pretty solid that night.......I just think Makar is far more needed as a puck mover with us down Theodore already.

I wonder if either of the Tkachuks are injured or not which could draw Hughes in.

 

[arso40]

Is there a 3rd place game or have those players gone back to their teams?

Gone

 

[notDatsyuk]

Again. Marner started off with first line minutes and worked his way down to the 4th line due to play.

What part of that are you getting lost at?

1st game: 21:06
2nd game: 19:29
3rd game: 12:46

His ice time is declining every game. That is a fact. Last game he was the second lowest among all Canadian players.

If his ice time went in the opposite direction - wouldn't that be a better sign?

But this was a nothing game, because if they hadn't won in regulation they would not be playing on Thursday.

 

[notDatsyuk]

No coincidence that he's also the only one who consistently cheats for offense .

Actually, Mitch and Matty do too, but they don't have the speed to make it look obvious.

Did you notice that on the GWG he was the only forward back at his own blueline?

 

[JT AM da real deal]

Go Canada Go! We will rise or fall on Binner and Crosby .. watch and learn .. Binner just needs to make the regular normal save he does not need to be superman .. Crosby must lead team by example and set da tone for game early

 

[notDatsyuk]

No Leafs in the Top 20 in tournament scoring. Quiet tourney for Big Money Leafs so far.

View attachment 978925

Nylander tied for 20th with Aho with 2 assists, and was +1.

Matty and Mitch with only 1 point each.

 

[Stephen]

When you have a deep star studded lineup like the states, you do have that luxury. Theres more than enough scoring, D and all backed up by the best goalie in the world so its actually the perfect role for Matthews, the best defensive center on the team.....and its played out perfectly with him in the lineup.

Hard to argue with success.

Was prime Joe Sakic a checking center in the Olympics? No he wasn’t. When others are thrust into leading roles and Matthews is put into a role, this is not a good sign.

 

[Tie Domi Esquire]

When you have a deep star studded lineup like the states, you do have that luxury. Theres more than enough scoring, D and all backed up by the best goalie in the world so its actually the perfect role for Matthews, the best defensive center on the team.....and its played out perfectly with him in the lineup.

Hard to argue with success.

2 games = success. The highest paid player in the world in a league with a hard salary cap is a checking center when it matters. This is not a success even with the shambles some people try and place on our brains.

The fanboys got mad at me when I suggested he should play this role btw.

 

[notDatsyuk]

Nylander is technically tied for 14th with a slew of others

Everywhere except for a few posters here, they consider goals to be worth more than assists, so they rank them that way. Willy is still tied for 20th.

 

[Zybalto]

Was prime Joe Sakic a checking center in the Olympics? No he wasn’t. When others are thrust into leading roles and Matthews is put into a role, this is not a good sign.

So far he captained a team that crushed Finland and beat Canada all while Matthews played the most minutes of any forward and the hardest minutes of any forward playing a style that's not giving the other team anything.

He's not playing for himself, he's playing to win IMO. If he does it one more time, he's not gonna care what people say about him, he's going to be a winner.

Can McDavid and company break through the strat and, more importantly, beat the heart of it which is Helle?

We will see.

 

[Zybalto]

2 games = success. The highest paid player in the world in a league with a hard salary cap is a checking center when it matters. This is not a success even with the shambles some people try and place on our brains.

The fanboys got mad at me when I suggested he should play this role btw.

It's so few games anything can happen.

He's had chances too. What if he pots a couple in the gold medal game to win it for the Americans?

Is he then the MVP?

Hell what if Marner gets another GWG for the tourney winner. How could he not be MVP?

Anything can happen in such a short tourney.

 

[notDatsyuk]

why does ice time matter so much to everyone? who gives a f*** if marner plays 12 minutes or matthews plays 18 if both do nothing when on the ice? I don't want to have our best players be David Kampf, or Philip Danault's on their teams.

Marner is the 6th highest scoring player in the league right now and he has been reduced to a 3rd line checker, how does that make sense? With his numbers he should be penciled in on the top 6 in at least the Mark Stone spot but he isn't. On top of that, when he played with Mcdavid he wasn't able to adjust his playstyle the slightest and just sticked to being at the point and doing nothing offensively. Someone brought up David Kampf and that was perfectly describing marner here. He looks like a good 4th liner doing his job playing 50/50 hockey. That is what our "top 10 player in the league rn" has resorted to in this best on best tournament.

Matthews is literally the highest paid player in the league right now, and he looks like a ho hum defensive 3C. Swap him and the other ho him 3C in Elias Pettersson and I wouldn't notice a difference. Swap him and 37 year old sidney crosby and USA is better off. He has 1 assist where he made a normal pass to Guentzel and has done almost nothing else. This is the supposed best goal scorer in the world and he has 0G and like 3 shots. He has given the leadership role up to Guentzel, Tkachuk's, and Eichel. Those are the 3/4 guys leading this team right now, they are hitting, fighting, battling, and SCORING. Matthews is supposedly a mackinnon level talent and his job is to just go and hold off Mcdavid??? That just sounds so stupid it makes no sense.

Nylander I'll barely touch on because it's clear as day he isn't as good as the other two and no G totals won't change my opinion.

Our guys should be the ones needing to be matched against in this tournament, not them matching other players.

It's not ice time. But Marner was playing on the top line, and did nothing. He's been reduced to a third line checker because that's what he has earned in these games.

Matthews I suspect is still nursing a bit of an injury, and he is at least still doing a good job defensively. Certainly we'd like him to start potting two or three goals each game, but he hasn't been bad.

Nylander is showing in these games, as with the Leafs in the playoffs, that he is as good (and likely better) than the other two, even with lesser linemates. He is, by the way, the one "needing to be matched against in this tournament".

 

[francis246]

It's not ice time. But Marner was playing on the top line, and did nothing. He's been reduced to a third line checker because that's what he has earned in these games.

Matthews I suspect is still nursing a bit of an injury, and he is at least still doing a good job defensively. Certainly we'd like him to start potting two or three goals each game, but he hasn't been bad.

Nylander is showing in these games, as with the Leafs in the playoffs, that he is as good (and likely better) than the other two, even with lesser linemates. He is, by the way, the one "needing to be matched against in this tournament".

Did you ever notice that whenever Matthews goes through a stretch when he is lacking offensively, he suddenly is nursing an injury? His PR team is incredible at that.