1specter
Registered User
- Sep 27, 2016
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Wouldn't lump Nylander into this, he's been pretty good for Sweden and at least noticeable while not having as good of a roster as Marner or Matthews.
4 Nations Cup Discussion
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Stephen
Moderator
- Feb 28, 2002
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Team USA scored 9 goals in the 2 games he played and he scored 1 assist. And then he got load managed. Just feels so Boston series last year.
Funny cuz Mitch got everything a superstar of his calibre should want to get for Canada (playing with the best player in the game and one fo the top goal scorers) and by game 3 he is basically in the 8-12 forward slot.
From 3-5 to 8-12 in 3 games.
12+ million dollar player though LMAO
BraveCanadian
Registered User
- Jun 30, 2010
- 15,806
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I would lump the 11.5 million PPG player in, personally.
Typical Nylander though, looks good but at the end of the day doesn't equate to all that much. Just like his play in general, has the talent of Matthews/Marner with arguably more heart (not saying much), but seldom puts it together outside of some small spurts, an awesome game or amazing 5-10 game stretch. Nothing long term.
This would be fine if he was 20-21-22-23, but he's closer to 30 than he is 20 and paid like he's one of the best players in the world (he's not come playoff time).
leafs in five
Registered User
Yeah personally I don't mind that he treats a blood and soil Canada-USA game differently than he did an all star game
Stephen
Moderator
- Feb 28, 2002
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I wish he had actually played a Team USA team leading role the first two games.
ULF_55
Moderator
If you saw what I said it’s not about depending on anyone he made domi and bertuzzi like top line wingers so who’s depending on who exactly?
ULF_55
Moderator
Over the past 5 playoffs, for players who have played in 20 games over those 5 years Nylander is in the top 10 for Goals per Game.
I'm not claiming this makes him a good playoffs performer, others can debate their feelings on that.
Matthews also led all team USA forwards in icetime through 2 games and was hard-matched against the other teams best line. Considering hes going to get the McDavid assignment again, we'll see how it goes.
Mess
Global Moderator
The big knock on Nylander would probably be his 5v5 on ice numbers:
19 goals scored, 25 goals against 5v5 over the last 5 years.
His playoff numbers are oddly everything people are saying Marner is. rough 5v5 numbers, good everything else.
Compared over the last 5 years:
Marner 5v5: 24 goals scored and15 against
Matthews 5v5: 22 goals scored and16 against.
thewave
Toronto Maple Leafs Toy Co.
- Jun 17, 2011
- 44,061
- 14,615
I hope he plays to his true ability and does not cause us to make a huge mistake. I want an honest performance that will reflect what he will or will not do for us going forward, and hopefully that includes not being a liability out there. I want to win Thursday.
It's a no win discussion.
He was asked to go against teams best and they held Finland and Canada to one goal.
He played well in a defensive role and threw a few hits along the way.
The Sweden game was meaningless so they decided to rest him. If he played and re-injured himself, people would be up in arms.
Salary means nothing in this tournament. You just have to execute the task at hand.
Would be it be nice if he appeared on the scoresheet more? Sure. But the team was 2-0 with him in while leading all forwards in icetime and they lost without him.
ACC1224
Super Elite, Passing ALL Tests since 2002
- Aug 19, 2002
- 78,205
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lol, you're not fooling anyone
Aashir
Backcheck, Forecheck, Paycheque
- Apr 19, 2019
- 13,799
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why does ice time matter so much to everyone? who gives a f*** if marner plays 12 minutes or matthews plays 18 if both do nothing when on the ice? I don't want to have our best players be David Kampf, or Philip Danault's on their teams.
Marner is the 6th highest scoring player in the league right now and he has been reduced to a 3rd line checker, how does that make sense? With his numbers he should be penciled in on the top 6 in at least the Mark Stone spot but he isn't. On top of that, when he played with Mcdavid he wasn't able to adjust his playstyle the slightest and just sticked to being at the point and doing nothing offensively. Someone brought up David Kampf and that was perfectly describing marner here. He looks like a good 4th liner doing his job playing 50/50 hockey. That is what our "top 10 player in the league rn" has resorted to in this best on best tournament.
Matthews is literally the highest paid player in the league right now, and he looks like a ho hum defensive 3C. Swap him and the other ho him 3C in Elias Pettersson and I wouldn't notice a difference. Swap him and 37 year old sidney crosby and USA is better off. He has 1 assist where he made a normal pass to Guentzel and has done almost nothing else. This is the supposed best goal scorer in the world and he has 0G and like 3 shots. He has given the leadership role up to Guentzel, Tkachuk's, and Eichel. Those are the 3/4 guys leading this team right now, they are hitting, fighting, battling, and SCORING. Matthews is supposedly a mackinnon level talent and his job is to just go and hold off Mcdavid??? That just sounds so stupid it makes no sense.
Nylander I'll barely touch on because it's clear as day he isn't as good as the other two and no G totals won't change my opinion.
Our guys should be the ones needing to be matched against in this tournament, not them matching other players.
Marner is the 6th highest scoring player in the league right now and he has been reduced to a 3rd line checker, how does that make sense? With his numbers he should be penciled in on the top 6 in at least the Mark Stone spot but he isn't. On top of that, when he played with Mcdavid he wasn't able to adjust his playstyle the slightest and just sticked to being at the point and doing nothing offensively. Someone brought up David Kampf and that was perfectly describing marner here. He looks like a good 4th liner doing his job playing 50/50 hockey. That is what our "top 10 player in the league rn" has resorted to in this best on best tournament.
Matthews is literally the highest paid player in the league right now, and he looks like a ho hum defensive 3C. Swap him and the other ho him 3C in Elias Pettersson and I wouldn't notice a difference. Swap him and 37 year old sidney crosby and USA is better off. He has 1 assist where he made a normal pass to Guentzel and has done almost nothing else. This is the supposed best goal scorer in the world and he has 0G and like 3 shots. He has given the leadership role up to Guentzel, Tkachuk's, and Eichel. Those are the 3/4 guys leading this team right now, they are hitting, fighting, battling, and SCORING. Matthews is supposedly a mackinnon level talent and his job is to just go and hold off Mcdavid??? That just sounds so stupid it makes no sense.
Nylander I'll barely touch on because it's clear as day he isn't as good as the other two and no G totals won't change my opinion.
Our guys should be the ones needing to be matched against in this tournament, not them matching other players.
ULF_55
Moderator
We know marner's defense is one of his strengths, probably why on Canada he's on the PK. (Surprised Nylander PK;d for Sweden).
Do you think playing with a Selke candidate impacts goals against?
- Dec 12, 2017
- 25,983
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Oh for sure.
Interestingly, Marner doesnt just have good 5v5 results, he got some of the best 5v5 results of any forward in the playoffs.
Much like it was up in the air when Theodore went down and we were only allowed a replacement once we lost Makar as well, I thought you needed 2 injuries to insert a new player.
Fogelhund
Registered User
- Sep 15, 2007
- 24,246
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Playing primarily with JT at C, who is poor defensively, and then Kerfoot as the second most likely C in that time probably has an impact there.
Oddly enough, JT is probably playing the best D of his career the last 2 years but over the last 5 years, yea, I wouldnt call JT a good defensive player over that stretch. Always been an "outscore your problems" kinda guy....kinda like Nylander to be fair.
ULF_55
Moderator
They all have their weaknesses.
Nylander is hardly a Selke candidate, and he doesn't play with one.
marner has been called Selke like, but isn't much of a goal scorer in the big games. Ranks 101st. in the past 5 playoffs (min 30 games).
Matthews is an all around player, who ranks 22nd. the past 5 years in goals per game, well below the elite goals scorers in the playoffs.
Back to the 4 Nations, if marner and Matthews are being asked to be their teams shutdown players, then that what their coach is after.
Canada and the other team have other goal scorers.
Just for S&G ...
Four Nations:
Nylander +1
marner -2
Matthews +0
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The tourney is so short, we can actually have a memory of all the games.
I didnt really see any Matthews errors leading to goals against (more McDavid being McJesus on the only goal against he was on for), Nylander had a rough goal against Canada and Marner had the EN drop pass gaffe. (we sentence you to play with Cirelli!)
Overall they havnt been a problem in that department for their teams.
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