GDT: #37 | Flyers at Kings | Sunday, December 29, 2024 (TONIGHT) | 9:00 PM Hateful Time | NBCSP, 97.5 FM

[FlyerNutter]

Is Tippet really all that different from Wade Allison?

Other than he stayed healthier.

 

[ellja3]

How do we know you're not a Russian Bot?

Found it. Nothing special, very short ''politically correct'' answers. You can read everything you need to know from his body language. What/how he says in Russian matches that.

 

[deadhead]

Is Tippet really all that different from Wade Allison?

Other than he stayed healthier.

A lot faster.
Tippett has flaws, which is why he makes $6M and not $9M.

Since he became a Flyer starter, tied for 59th in NHL with 66 goals, imagine if the Flyers had a decent PP.
At ES, TK is 36th and Tippett tied for 39th.

EH (no empty net goals), tied for 33rd at ES with Ovechkin, Tuch, Horvat, Hagel, Caufield, Skinner, Bratt, Hintz and Meier.
TK tied for 49th with 3 less goals scored.

Tippett can score goals, that's what they're paying him to do.

 

[Beef Invictus]

The deal with Cates is that he can go out and play and his team will score the majority of goals when he is on the ice, which is great. Its mostly strong defensively play. If he can continue to chip in offense, then he can be a 3C. If not, then he is a strong 4C or a 3rd line winger. The issue is that Tortorella will play the crap out of a player like that. He loves to elevate and favor role players. That is his philosophy. Over play checkers and grinders. Defend and block shots and hope the goalie plays well. With just enough of a sprinkling of skill players to score

High value asset to a contending team to lock down a bottom six. Doesn't really do much to fix our roster problems, though. Given that he's going to be 30 as Michkov enters his prime. We should not gamble he will have this value at that point.

A brave and rebuilding team would sell him to speed along the rebuild. The Flyers will extend him with too much term and make him a marketing centerpiece.

 

[freakydallas13]

I'll never understand the need to prop up a 50 point winger who brings nothing other than goal scoring to be more than he is. Tippet isn't some savior or play driving wizard, he's a 25 year old winger who will give you 50 points a year, give or take. Fine player. Good even, under specific circumstances.

Not someone you trot out as one of your premier players, and also not someone you should be signing for 8 years at a time.

 

[deadhead]

I'll never understand the need to prop up a 50 point winger who brings nothing other than goal scoring to be more than he is. Tippet isn't some savior or play driving wizard, he's a 25 year old winger who will give you 50 points a year, give or take. Fine player. Good even, under specific circumstances.

Not someone you trot out as one of your premier players, and also not someone you should be signing for 8 years at a time.

Why wouldn't you lock up someone who's in the top 40-50 in goal scoring at 23-24 years old at a reasonable price?

Caufield, who's primarily a goal scorer just like Tippett, signed a 8 year $62.8M contract which included more RFA seasons than Tippett's deal.

The two are dead even in ES goals scored since Tippett became a starter.
And there is no reason to think Caufield has more upside, given how raw Tippett is, there's more room for improvement, Caufield is close to a finished product.
And given their bodies, is Caufield more likely to be durable?

 

[freakydallas13]

Why wouldn't you lock up someone who's in the top 40-50 in goal scoring at 23-24 years old at a reasonable price?

Caufield, who's primarily a goal scorer just like Tippett, signed a 8 year $62.8M contract which included more RFA seasons than Tippett's deal.

The two are dead even in ES goals scored since Tippett became a starter.
And there is no reason to think Caufield has more upside, given how raw Tippett is, there's more room for improvement, Caufield is close to a finished product.
And given their bodies, is Caufield more likely to be durable?

You can keep calling him a top 40-50 goalscorer until you are blue in the face, he's still a 50 point winger.

But sure, keep proving my point for me.

Caufield has nothing to do with Tippet being a 50 point winger or you constantly trying to prove how much better he is than he looks.

 

[JojoTheWhale]

Caufield is 2 full years younger. I'm not even the biggest fan of his, but this is nutty.

 

[deadhead]

Goals have more value than assists, especially secondary assists.
Tippett scores goals, that has real value.
He's not a great player, but if Caufield gets almost $8M with 2 more RFA seasons, $6M for Tippett is fine.
Their scoring rates are almost identical at ES, Caufield gets more PP points b/c he's on a better PP.
Caufield 2.24 pp/60, Tippett 2.19.
And Tippett is more durable.

Caufield is 2 full years younger. I'm not even the biggest fan of his, but this is nutty.

And I'm not sure he'll age well, he's really small and already has missed half a season.
He also came into the league as more of a finished product.
Now maybe he's the next Jesper Bratt, but Bratt has 3" and about 15 lbs on him.

Point is there isn't a huge gap between the two as far as production.

 

[FlyerNutter]

Would be cool if they had a Pastrnak to go along with Michkov, instead of the Tippets.

 

[Hollywood Cannon]

Wayne Gretzky gets more PP points than Nic Deslauriers because he’s on a better PP.

 

[freakydallas13]

Part of the reason Caufield is on a better powerplay is because it's Caufield and not Tippet on the powerplay.

 

[JojoTheWhale]

He also came into the league as more of a finished product.

You're trying to tell me that being good right away is a negative. No. Never.

We cannot just assume the bigger guy has more "upside" in his mid 20s because there's a 99th percentile outcome technically on the table.

 

[deadhead]

Part of the reason Caufield is on a better powerplay is because it's Caufield and not Tippet on the powerplay.

Think it has more to do with Suzuki and Hutson, Caufield is primarily a shooter.
28 goals, 26 PP assists in 241 games. 857 minutes. Mostly on PP1.
Tippett
13 goals, 11 assists, in 192 games. 472 minutes. Mostly on PP2.

 

[deadhead]

You're trying to tell me that being good right away is a negative. No. Never.

We cannot just assume the bigger guy has more "upside" because there's a 99th percentile outcome technically on the table.

Smaller skill guys do seem to adjust faster, maybe because they're drafted high and given a chance primarily due to their offensive production. So self-selection. Bigger guys more likely to get drafted and developed based on "potential," not immediate production.

I think there's also a body control thing, smaller players tend to physically mature earlier (one reason they're smaller is a limited growth spurt, a lot of athletes go through a phase where they adjust to "shooting up"). Would be an interesting study.

 

[freakydallas13]

You're trying to tell me that being good right away is a negative. No. Never.

We cannot just assume the bigger guy has more "upside" in his mid 20s because there's a 99th percentile outcome technically on the table.

We can and we will.

 

[VladDrag]

Tippett and TK pass too much these days, forcing passes instead of taking the good shot and creating rebounds.

No - not even close. Tippett has the 5th most shot (at 5v5) among forwards who have played 300+ minutes for this season… he’s also 6th most since Black Friday.

 

[Curufinwe]

Since PPP don't matter and Tippett has scored at 2.02 P/60 at 5on5 under Torts and got 8 x $6.2m, I await the thesis explaining why Frost doesn't deserves 8 x $5.8m when he has scored at 1.89 P/60.

Player Season Totals - Natural Stat Trick

Frost also has much better defensive results than Tippett, making him one of only four forwards to have a GF% of 50 or more in the Torts era (minimum 400 minutes at 5on5).

Player Season Totals - Natural Stat Trick

1. Guess! - 52.31%
2. Foerster - 52.17%
3. Frost - 50.25%
4. Cates - 50%

 

[Magua]

I cannot believe I’m reading that Tippett was ever a “raw” player, compared to [imaginary small skill player X]. He was NHL size in his draft year. He was a top 10 pick. He is one of the fastest players in the league — even one of the better rush players. He is a one dimensional skill player! Nothing about his game has changed from the Steelheads. That his journey to NHL middle 6 player (a mild disappointment for a top 10 pick) took far longer than expected (key word) does not make him raw.

It’s year 3 of the exact same production, with all the usage in the world, as he’s well in his prime approaching age 26. This is Owen Tippett, for better or worse. The idea that others will age poorly, but Tippett will age well (a guy whose game is entirely based on out-sprinting opponents), is another laugher. Maybe if he didn’t reek on the power play, but there’s no soft landing when he loses half a step.

I'll never understand the need to prop up a 50 point winger who brings nothing other than goal scoring to be more than he is. Tippet isn't some savior or play driving wizard, he's a 25 year old winger who will give you 50 points a year, give or take. Fine player. Good even, under specific circumstances.

The team treats him as the 2nd most important u27 *crazy laugh* player in an organization pathetically short on talent and the vision to acquire more. The whole house of cards falls down if he acknowledges that preposterousness. Propping up Tippett has little to do with Tippett the Player.

 

[Flyerfan4life]

Since PPP don't matter and Tippett has scored at 2.02 P/60 at 5on5 under Torts and got 8 x $6.2m, I await the thesis explaining why Frost doesn't deserves 8 x $5.8m when he has scored at 1.89 P/60.

Player Season Totals - Natural Stat Trick

Frost also has much better defensive results than Tippett, making him one of only four forwards to have a GF% of 50 or more in the Torts era (minimum 400 minutes at 5on5).

Player Season Totals - Natural Stat Trick

1. Guess! - 52.31%
2. Foerster - 52.17%
3. Frost - 50.25%
4. Cates - 50%

we dont talk facts here...

 

[freakydallas13]

I cannot believe I’m reading that Tippett was ever a “raw” player, compared to [imaginary small skill player X]. He was NHL size in his draft year. He was a top 10 pick. He is one of the fastest players in the league — even one of the better rush players. He is a one dimensional skill player! Nothing about his game has changed from the Steelheads. That his journey to NHL middle 6 player (a mild disappointment for a top 10 pick) took far longer than expected (key word) does not make him raw.

It’s year 3 of the exact same production, with all the usage in the world, as he’s well in his prime approaching age 26. This is Owen Tippett, for better or worse. The idea that others will age poorly, but Tippett will age well (a guy whose game is entirely based on out-sprinting opponents), is another laugher. Maybe if he didn’t reek on the power play, but there’s no soft landing when he loses half a step.



The team treats him as the 2nd most important u27 *crazy laugh* player in an organization pathetically short on talent and the vision to acquire more. The whole house of cards falls down if he acknowledges that preposterousness. Propping up Tippett has little to do with Tippett the Player.

It's like romanticizing Joffrey Lupul. Except instead we'd have to pretend Lupul was the second most important forward on those teams, and act impressed when the Flyers resigned him for 8 years.

Okay okay, I am being unfair. To Lupul. He actually managed to put up 67 points one season, 'ol Tipperino's career high is still 53. Which, was actually also Lupul's career high at the same age tippet is now. Wow, they really are similar players.

 

[MJL66]

Is Tippet really all that different from Wade Allison?

Other than he stayed healthier.

Let's not get carried away in criticizing Tippett. Did Allison ever score 27 or 28 goals in an NHL season?

 

[MJL66]

Why wouldn't you lock up someone who's in the top 40-50 in goal scoring at 23-24 years old at a reasonable price?

Caufield, who's primarily a goal scorer just like Tippett, signed a 8 year $62.8M contract which included more RFA seasons than Tippett's deal.

The two are dead even in ES goals scored since Tippett became a starter.
And there is no reason to think Caufield has more upside, given how raw Tippett is, there's more room for improvement, Caufield is close to a finished product.
And given their bodies, is Caufield more likely to be durable?

Signing Tippett to an 8 year deal was a huge mistake by the Flyers. That's a deal that a smart team doesn't make. It's a deal that a team that only cares about marketing makes.

Caulfield put up his first 20+ goal season and has 3 20+ goal seasons and a career high of 28 at 23 years of age. He's on his way this season to a 40 goal season at age 24 and he is younger than Tippett. But Caulfield is close to a finished product and Tippett has more room for improvement? Could you possibly be a bigger homer? Tippett is not raw, he just lacks overall talent. Caulfield has a really good chance to be a regular 35 goal 70 point player while Tippett has virtually zero chance to reach that level.

 

[FlyerNutter]

Let's not get carried away in criticizing Tippett. Did Allison ever score 27 or 28 goals in an NHL season?

Yes

 

[MJL66]

Yes

You said Wade Allison, not Jason Allison, right? When did Wade Allison score 27 goals in an NHL season?