GDT: #34 | Blue Jackets vs Flyers | Saturday, December 21, 2024 | 7:00 PM | NBCSP, 93.3 FM

[Ghosts Beer]

Of course Owen Tippett is a “flawed” player.

He’s also a 25-yr-old former 10th overall pick who already has seasons of 27 & 28 goals under his belt the last two seasons.

And he gives the Flyers an explosive goal-scoring /power forward dynamic they aren’t exactly loaded in.

Yeah he’s frustrating when he’s missing the net. But he’s at least usually visible & puts teams on their heels even when he’s on a cold streak.

How many of these 25-year-olds are available who scored 55 total goals in their 23 & 24 yr old seasons & have his explosion?

 

[Beef Invictus]

Of course Owen Tippett is a “flawed” player.

He’s also a 25-yr-old former 10th overall pick who already has seasons of 27 & 28 goals under his belt the last two seasons.

And he gives the Flyers an explosive goal-scoring /power forward dynamic they aren’t exactly loaded in.

Yeah he’s frustrating when he’s missing the net. But he’s at least usually visible & puts teams on their heels even when he’s on a cold streak.

How many of these 25-year-olds are available who scored 55 total goals in their 23 & 24 yr old seasons & have his explosion?

He's good but he's not this level of player

 

[Ghosts Beer]

Tip isn’t perfect, by any means, but there’s more there — he’s only 25 & essentially a 30-goal scorer already at ages 23 & 24.

He could easily become a yearly 35-goal scorer.

JVR only hit 30 goals 2x in his life, & Flyers gave him a huge contract starting at age 29. And that’s when the cap was even lower. And Tippett is the better player, much younger, more upside.

Hard to find goal scoring. Especially with players who are only 25.

 

[Flyerfan4life]

Tip isn’t perfect, by any means, but there’s more there — he’s only 25 & essentially a 30-goal scorer already at ages 23 & 24.

He could easily become a yearly 35-goal scorer.

JVR only hit 30 goals 2x in his life, & Flyers gave him a huge contract starting at age 29. And that’s when the cap was even lower. And Tippett is the better player, much younger, more upside.

Hard to find goal scoring. Especially with players who are only 25.

now do Ghost..

oh yea

 

[Ghosts Beer]

now do Ghost..

oh yea

What about Ghost?

Think Tippett would go unclaimed if they waived him?

Ha!

 

[freakydallas13]

Tip isn’t perfect, by any means, but there’s more there — he’s only 25 & essentially a 30-goal scorer already at ages 23 & 24.

He could easily become a yearly 35-goal scorer.

JVR only hit 30 goals 2x in his life, & Flyers gave him a huge contract starting at age 29. And that’s when the cap was even lower. And Tippett is the better player, much younger, more upside.

Hard to find goal scoring. Especially with players who are only 25.

JVR was also in his prime when scoring around the NHL was much lower compared to today. He would have likely had noticeably better numbers playing in an NHL were points are scored at today's rate.

 

[VladDrag]

Of course Owen Tippett is a “flawed” player.

He’s also a 25-yr-old former 10th overall pick who already has seasons of 27 & 28 goals under his belt the last two seasons.

And he gives the Flyers an explosive goal-scoring /power forward dynamic they aren’t exactly loaded in.

Yeah he’s frustrating when he’s missing the net. But he’s at least usually visible & puts teams on their heels even when he’s on a cold streak.

How many of these 25-year-olds are available who scored 55 total goals in their 23 & 24 yr old seasons & have his explosion?

I agree with the majority of this. Calling him not as good as TK is not an attack.

 

[MJL66]

Of course Owen Tippett is a “flawed” player.

He’s also a 25-yr-old former 10th overall pick who already has seasons of 27 & 28 goals under his belt the last two seasons.

And he gives the Flyers an explosive goal-scoring /power forward dynamic they aren’t exactly loaded in.

Yeah he’s frustrating when he’s missing the net. But he’s at least usually visible & puts teams on their heels even when he’s on a cold streak.

How many of these 25-year-olds are available who scored 55 total goals in their 23 & 24 yr old seasons & have his explosion?

In my opinion, stating that Tippett give the Flyers an explosive goal scoring/Power forward dynamic is hyperbole. He's not a power forward. He uses his speed on the rush and can occasionally beat a defenseman one on one. Almost all of his goal come from individual effort rather than working off of teammates. It's not about whether Tippett is a valuable player or if players like him are available. It's about his prospects of becoming more than he is now. It's also untrue that he puts teams on their heels when he's not scoring. He is very ineffective when he's not scoring because he lacks any semblance of any kind of an all around game,

 

[MJL66]

Tip isn’t perfect, by any means, but there’s more there — he’s only 25 & essentially a 30-goal scorer already at ages 23 & 24.

He could easily become a yearly 35-goal scorer.

JVR only hit 30 goals 2x in his life, & Flyers gave him a huge contract starting at age 29. And that’s when the cap was even lower. And Tippett is the better player, much younger, more upside.

Hard to find goal scoring. Especially with players who are only 25.

There really isn't more there. In order to be a 30 goal scorer, don't you have to score 30 at least once. He really doesn't have the offensive game to become a yearly 35 goal scorer. Maybe he could be elevated if he played with an elite playmaker but he would have to drastically improve his ability to play off of linemates. It is hard to find goal scoring but a player like Tippett, who is a one dimensional player should not have gotten an 8 year deal. Other than when he's scoring goals, he's not a very good player.

 

[Danko]

Tip isn’t perfect, by any means, but there’s more there — he’s only 25 & essentially a 30-goal scorer already at ages 23 & 24.

He could easily become a yearly 35-goal scorer.

JVR only hit 30 goals 2x in his life, & Flyers gave him a huge contract starting at age 29. And that’s when the cap was even lower. And Tippett is the better player, much younger, more upside.

Hard to find goal scoring. Especially with players who are only 25.

Good luck with this argument, I posted something similar that i believed he could get to 35/40 with better focus on his shots placement and finding the right lane when not in motion.

I see the error of my ways.

 

[deadhead]

Since he became a starter in 2022-23:
76th in total ES points
36 (tie) in ES goals
69th in ES pp/60 (2000 minutes) 2.23 (G is 2.25 over the same period)
[JVR, from 2018-2021, 2.53, good for 53rd, however, Tippett scores goals at a higher rate]

That's above the median for a 2nd line forward.
Somewhere in the 3-4th forward range for most teams.
Well worth $6M with a rising cap.

 

[Ghosts Beer]

There really isn't more there. In order to be a 30 goal scorer, don't you have to score 30 at least once. He really doesn't have the offensive game to become a yearly 35 goal scorer. Maybe he could be elevated if he played with an elite playmaker but he would have to drastically improve his ability to play off of linemates. It is hard to find goal scoring but a player like Tippett, who is a one dimensional player should not have gotten an 8 year deal. Other than when he's scoring goals, he's not a very good player.

Well, Owen Tippett is tied for 57th in the NHL in goals scored over the last 3 seasons, with 66 goals.

That ties him with Mitch Marner and Martin Necas.

It puts him 1 goal behind Alex Debrincat, Alex Tuch, and Jack Eichel.

It puts him 2 goals behind Stutzle and Boeser.

Just 4 goals behind Suzuki and 5 goals behind Cole Caufield.

It puts him ahead of players like Fiala, Kopitar, Giroux, Marchand, and Malkin.

Soooo.....maybe fans on this board are being a little too harsh on Tippett and his contract.

 

[freakydallas13]

Tippet is a player who is 25 and his career high in points is 53, which is what he's on pace for this year again.

He's also a career -44 and because of his lack of awareness routinely kills offensively plays and offers basically nothing if he isn't scoring goals.

He's worth exactly what a 53 point player who brings nothing else is.

 

[MJL66]

Well, Owen Tippett is tied for 57th in the NHL in goals scored over the last 3 seasons, with 66 goals.

That ties him with Mitch Marner and Martin Necas.

It puts him 1 goal behind Alex Debrincat, Alex Tuch, and Jack Eichel.

It puts him 2 goals behind Stutzle and Boeser.

Just 4 goals behind Suzuki and 5 goals behind Cole Caufield.

It puts him ahead of players like Fiala, Kopitar, Giroux, Marchand, and Malkin.

Soooo.....maybe fans on this board are being a little too harsh on Tippett and his contract.

Necas is on pace for a 109 point season. Marner is perennial top point getter in the NHL and one of the best two way players in the league. He has been a Selke trophy finalist. Stutzle has had 90 and 70 point seasons in the league and is currently on pace for a 96 point season. Kopitar has won cups and the Selke trophy and has actually scored 35 goals and 90 points. Giroux has had a 102 point season and been a Hart trophy finalist. I could go on and on with the players you named. I don't think you have a very good argument

 

[Ghosts Beer]

Necas is on pace for a 109 point season. Marner is perennial top point getter in the NHL and one of the best two way players in the league. He has been a Selke trophy finalist. Stutzle has had 90 and 70 point seasons in the league and is currently on pace for a 96 point season. Kopitar has won cups and the Selke trophy and has actually scored 35 goals and 90 points. Giroux has had a 102 point season and been a Hart trophy finalist. I could go on and on with the players you named. I don't think you have a very good argument

Yeah, and how much do they make compared to Tippett?

A ton more.

Getting so upset about Tippett earning a paltry $6.2M as a 25-year old who is 57th in the whole NHL in goal scoring the last 3-seasons, right there with some of the biggest names in hockey, is absurd, IMO.

Who are you going to replace him with for $6.2M?

This is the whole, "I could walk on water, and you'd say it's because I couldn't swim" type of situation.

So many want to bash Tippett and his contract for what he isn't, instead of appreciating what he is.

 

[Curufinwe]

It's hard to imagine the nonsense level in the posts you guys are replying to.

The point, which you obviously know and are avoiding, is that TK is clearly 2-3 steps above where Tippett is as a player.

TK gets a ‘pass’ because he’s a much better player than Tippett.

If that's the case, how come OT is on TC and not TK?

Oh wait.

 

[MJL66]

Yeah, and how much do they make compared to Tippett?

A ton more.

Getting so upset about Tippett earning a paltry $6.2M as a 25-year old who is 57th in the whole NHL in goal scoring the last 3-seasons, right there with some of the biggest names in hockey, is absurd, IMO.

Who are you going to replace him with for $6.2M?

This is the whole, "I could walk on water, and you'd say it's because I couldn't swim" type of situation.

So many want to bash Tippett and his contract for what he isn't, instead of appreciating what he is.

I don't think you're understanding. I didn't state I had an issue with his cap hit. I stated that I had an issue with the Flyers signing him to an 8 year deal. All of those other players make a lot more because they have other elements to their game. Making them far more valuable. Tippett can score goals at a solid level, in a one dimensional manner, which is going to keep him from getting better. He has no other value to his game. Yet I routinely read that he can be a perennial 30 goal goal or even a 35-40 goal scorer. I don't think he has that ability or will ever be that player. If he had that potential, Zito would've never traded him. This is what poor and mediocre run franchises to. They hitch their wagon with 8 year deals to a player like Tippett. Because they're so desperate for scoring. It's short sighted and all a player like Tippett is going to do is help you stay in the mediocre middle ground, the worst place you can be in pro sports. Preventing you from obtaining the high end elite talent that you really need. His contract is a major issue and a mistake by this team. I'm bashing the team for the contract, not Tippett. I'm just opining on the reality of what Tippett is as a player.

 

[Ghosts Beer]

Tippet is a player who is 25 and his career high in points is 53, which is what he's on pace for this year again.

He's also a career -44 and because of his lack of awareness routinely kills offensively plays and offers basically nothing if he isn't scoring goals.

He's worth exactly what a 53 point player who brings nothing else is.

Are all points created equal?

What's more valuable: goals, or secondary assists?

And again, who are you going to replace him with for $6,2M?

 

[Curufinwe]

Is Foerster going to get 8 x $6m+ as well?

 

[deadhead]

+/- of course is silly.

xGA/60 for Tippett the last three seasons, 2.69, 2.55, 2.34.

He started this season in a shooting funk as well as too many bad plays leading to HDCA.
Last few weeks not only is he on a scoring heater, his bad plays are substantially reduced.

Tippett is fine. He's one of the fastest players in the NHL, good size, is playing a more physical game, working to get closer to the net rather than just fire away from 20', has improved his passing.

No, he's not going to become an allstar player, but he's a solid #3/#4 forward on any team.

 

[Ghosts Beer]

I don't think you're understanding. I didn't state I had an issue with his cap hit. I stated that I had an issue with the Flyers signing him to an 8 year deal. All of those other players make a lot more because they have other elements to their game. Making them far more valuable. Tippett can score goals at a solid level, in a one dimensional manner, which is going to keep him from getting better. He has no other value to his game. Yet I routinely read that he can be a perennial 30 goal goal or even a 35-40 goal scorer. I don't think he has that ability or will ever be that player. If he had that potential, Zito would've never traded him. This is what poor and mediocre run franchises to. They hitch their wagon with 8 year deals to a player like Tippett. Because they're so desperate for scoring. It's short sighted and all a player like Tippett is going to do is help you stay in the mediocre middle ground, the worst place you can be in pro sports. Preventing you from obtaining the high end elite talent that you really need. His contract is a major issue and a mistake by this team. I'm bashing the team for the contract, not Tippett. I'm just opining on the reality of what Tippett is as a player.

You need to have some goal scorers and guys with explosiveness who get to the net on the wing.

Tippett is both, and most good teams have a player or two like Tippett.

Is he a superstar, no. But he's only 25 and he gave them a break on his cap hit in exchange for 8 years. There's no reason he should completely fall apart in his early 30s. He'll be 33 when the contract ends, not over 35.

And I disagree that he's already reached his ceiling. I think he's still figuring it out, and with his physical tools there's upside.

I don't think his contract is going to prevent them from anything. It actually ultimately will give them room as the cap rises and they reach the stage where they're ready to sign a big-name FA. Because you need complementary pieces like Tippett when you're ready to compete.

 

[freakydallas13]

Are all points created equal?

What's more valuable: goals, or secondary assists?

And again, who are you going to replace him with for $6,2M?

Don't be upset because of the facts. I didn't say he was over or underpaid, he is a 53 point player in his prime who doesn't offer anything other than those 53 points. He could score 53 goals and 0 assists a year and it would still be true.

 

[MJL66]

Are all points created equal?

What's more valuable: goals, or secondary assists?

And again, who are you going to replace him with for $6,2M?

What's more valuable? Goals or goals and secondary assists? You don't look to replace him for 6.2M. You look to draft elite level talent and then develop them.

+/- of course is silly.

xGA/60 for Tippett the last three seasons, 2.69, 2.55, 2.34.

He started this season in a shooting funk as well as too many bad plays leading to HDCA.
Last few weeks not only is he on a scoring heater, his bad plays are substantially reduced.

Tippett is fine. He's one of the fastest players in the NHL, good size, is playing a more physical game, working to get closer to the net rather than just fire away from 20', has improved his passing.

No, he's not going to become an allstar player, but he's a solid #3/#4 forward on any team.

If you want to be a legit contending team, then no, you don't want a player like Tippett in your top 6. Also signing a player like Tippett to an 8 year deal is not how you build a legit contending team

 

[Ghosts Beer]

Don't be upset because of the facts. I didn't say he was over or underpaid, he is a 53 point player in his prime who doesn't offer anything other than those 53 points. He could score 53 goals and 0 assists a year and it would still be true.

You sure seem to be trying your hardest to diminish the value of a 25 year old winger with size and speed, who was a 10th overall pick, who scored 27 and 28 goals at ages 23 and 24, and who is 57th in the NHL in goal scoring the last 3 seasons.

Maybe I'm wrong. Please clarify: Are you not implying it's a bad contract?

 

[MJL66]

You need to have some goal scorers and guys with explosiveness who get to the net on the wing.

Tippett is both, and most good teams have a player or two like Tippett.

Is he a superstar, no. But he's only 25 and he gave them a break on his cap hit in exchange for 8 years. There's no reason he should completely fall apart in his early 30s. He'll be 33 when the contract ends, not over 35.

And I disagree that he's already reached his ceiling. I think he's still figuring it out, and with his physical tools there's upside.

I don't think his contract is going to prevent them from anything. It actually ultimately will give them room as the cap rises and they reach the stage where they're ready to sign a big-name FA. Because you need complementary pieces like Tippett when you're ready to compete.

Tippett rarely gets to the net offensively. Signing him to an 8 year deal was a mistake and the type of mistake that the Flyers routinely make. Which is why they're one of the most poorly run teams in the league, There isn't much more to Tippett. Poor all around play and poor hockey sense. If you have a player or two like Tippett signed to 8 year deals. You aren't going to be that good. If you're going to be a 25-28 goal 50 point scorer on a legit contending team as a building piece, you need other factors in your game. Tippett doesn't have it. Tippett's contract actually ultimately giving them room must be the new cap math. When you're ready, you don't want complimentary pieces like Tippett. They prevent you from ever being ready. I don't know about you but I'm looking for more than just competing.