34 & 16

[Aashir]

Perhaps they are kept together because they also form the best line defensively?

But then it creates an awful second line, especially defensively

JT and nylander offensively are hot and cold, but defensively a mess

Marner and Matthews provide stability to the other two and give us two good first lines in all situations vs 1 great first line and a good but flawed second line.

 

[ACC1224]

But then it creates an awful second line, especially defensively

JT and nylander offensively are hot and cold, but defensively a mess

Marner and Matthews provide stability to the other two and give us two good first lines in all situations vs 1 great first line and a good but flawed second line.

I'm certainly not against them being split just throwing out a thought on why coaches don't.

 

[Gabriel426]

I truly think Bérubé knows he can’t split them into three lines bc he doesn’t have players to play with them.

MM with JT and Max/McMann is good
Even AM with Domi and Knies is good
But Willie with whom?

It is not just who Willie will play with but what is the role and identity of that line?

 

[mjd1001]

I don't think thats true they are better apart. I thought someone else posted stats that showed, despite perception, they actually are more productive together. I'll try to find the stats and post them.

 

[mjd1001]

Why can the casual fan see that 16 is better away from 34 and 34 is better away from 16 but every coach after seeing it work goes back to the same 34 & 16

Is there a clause in their contract stating they must play together? I am really baffled why us arm chair QB's can see this but Keefe and now Berube can't see it

If the casual fan can see they are better apart, then the what the casual fan sees goes against reality.

In terms of goal production, its not true they are better apart, at least the last 2 years:

Together:
1175 minutes played even strength the last 2 years. 90 "goals for"

Seperate:
1295 minutes combined (both of them added together) 81 "goals for"

So even strength this year and last year, production is 22% better with them together than apart. As far as goals allowed, they are slightly worse defensively when playing together, but offensively quite a bit better when together.

Line Stats - Natural Stat Trick

 

[Stephen]

Perhaps they are kept together because they also form the best line defensively?

Maybe wait a couple of weeks after the Carolina game to make that statement.

 

[ACC1224]

Maybe wait a couple of weeks after the Carolina game to make that statement.

I figure people are bright enough not to put too put weight on a one off night that will never occur again.

 

[Cap'n Flavour]

Great timing on the thread, lol.

 

[ryno23]

But then it creates an awful second line, especially defensively

JT and nylander offensively are hot and cold, but defensively a mess

Marner and Matthews provide stability to the other two and give us two good first lines in all situations vs 1 great first line and a good but flawed second line.

I do like this thinking. Matthews and Marner are both good in the D zone so they can help transition each line out of the zone way quicker.

If the casual fan can see they are better apart, then the what the casual fan sees goes against reality.

In terms of goal production, its not true they are better apart, at least the last 2 years:

Together:
1175 minutes played even strength the last 2 years. 90 "goals for"

Seperate:
1295 minutes combined (both of them added together) 81 "goals for"

So even strength this year and last year, production is 22% better with them together than apart. As far as goals allowed, they are slightly worse defensively when playing together, but offensively quite a bit better when together.

Line Stats - Natural Stat Trick

ok now do production for the 2nd line. Then do production for 34 & 88 and 91 & 16.

it's not about how they produce together it's how breaking them up would spread the offense

 

[Stephen]

I do like this thinking. Matthews and Marner are both good in the D zone so they can help transition each line out of the zone way quicker.


ok now do production for the 2nd line. Then do production for 34 & 88 and 91 & 16.

it's not about how they produce together it's how breaking them up would spread the offense

I think it’s about realizing Matthews and Marner’s effectiveness as a duo is cyclical and goes in phases of dominant to completely ineffective.

So a team needs to have a flexible philosophy and just have different stacked vs spread out configurations depending on whether these guys are on or off.

Also technically the OT winner was a Marner to Nylander stretch pass so there’s an argument for having 34 and 16 apart as well.

 

[Stephen]

I figure people are bright enough not to put too put weight on a one off night that will never occur again.

Putting aside extreme cases and glib comments aside for a moment, the month of December was not a good defensive month for Matthews or Marner.

 

[Mugzy97]

Why wouldn’t you play them together lol

 

[Schennanigans]

Top 6 is way better balanced when their on their own lines.

 

[mjd1001]

I do like this thinking. Matthews and Marner are both good in the D zone so they can help transition each line out of the zone way quicker.


ok now do production for the 2nd line. Then do production for 34 & 88 and 91 & 16.

it's not about how they produce together it's how breaking them up would spread the offense

Its in there. When you break them up, you are getting less than the sum of their parts. Total goals, you are getting less total goals spread out than you do when they are together.

I'll sacrifice "X" goals from my 2nd line if it means I get "more than X extra" from my first line.

 

[thewave]

Have they ever tried MM and WN together? Maybe try Willy at C with him. They need a C anyways. Maybe with how we'll Marner plays D they can make it work effectively

 

[Menzinger]

Have they ever tried MM and WN together? Maybe try Willy at C with him. They need a C anyways. Maybe with how we'll Marner plays D they can make it work effectively

When the team acquires it's next 2C, be it at the tdl or over the summer they should definitely experiment with that, then leave JT and Matthews to run their own lines