Post-Game Talk: #30 - 12/10/19 | RANGERS @ kings | 10:30 - MSG 2

[ViD]

Extremely dangerous play by Brown on Panarin. Thankfully, Artemi looked fine.

by the way, he can throw even with guys from different weight classes.

 

[RGY]

Impossible for me to agree more adamantly.

Having 3 competent players on each line is important. You have Howden getting knocked on his ass every shift. Overpowered. But having that 3rd competent player is important when youre playing a dump and chase game. First man in goes to tie up the defender. 2nd guy is helping retrieve that puck and then move it to the 3rd guy. This could start in the corner and swing behind the net and to the other side. Problem is we have Howden and Smith injected into any one of those roles. Each one they become the breakdown of the play. First man in, they cant tie up physically and win enough, especially Howden and less Smith. 2nd man in, Howden is never able to scoop the puck, he just gets buried or knocked off the puck so easily he cant even make a play with the puck. Smith cant pass for shit, he is in constant panic mode when he has the puck. 3rd man, again both cant handle the puck and get pucks toward the net.

You cant play the north south game with only 2 forwards. Especially when the opposition is going into a defensive shell with 5 man back. And thats exactly what was happening in the 3rd period.

 

[CasusBelli]

Having 3 competent players on each line is important. You have Howden getting knocked on his ass every shift. Overpowered. But having that 3rd competent player is important when youre playing a dump and chase game. First man in goes to tie up the defender. 2nd guy is helping retrieve that puck and then move it to the 3rd guy. This could start in the corner and swing behind the net and to the other side. Problem is we have Howden and Smith injected into any one of those roles. Each one they become the breakdown of the play. First man in, they cant tie up physically and win enough, especially Howden and less Smith. 2nd man in, Howden is never able to scoop the puck, he just gets buried or knocked off the puck so easily he cant even make a play with the puck. Smith cant pass for ****, he is in constant panic mode when he has the puck. 3rd man, again both cant handle the puck and get pucks toward the net.

You cant play the north south game with only 2 forwards. Especially when the opposition is going into a defensive shell with 5 man back. And thats exactly what was happening in the 3rd period.

We have AP, Z and moochers.

 

[aufheben]

Extremely dangerous play by Brown on Panarin. Thankfully, Artemi looked fine.

by the way, he can throw even with guys from different weight classes.

McAvoy is another POS lol.

Panarin.

 

[Machinehead]

They don't #ShootDaPuck because the other team has it so much more than they do.

Quinn approaching the point.

 

[Whoot Whoot]

my fault - every time i go to a game they lose

what a dead arena to see a game

 

[Machinehead]

@will1066 Donnie isn't my dog but I'll see what I can do

He only likes to come out after wins

 

[aufheben]

Panarin needs to practice in isolation because everyone else apparently thinks they can pass like him.

 

[Whoot Whoot]

I hope the LA Kings entire team gets the bubonic plague from the bums that roam the streets of LA, that is all

i don’t know if this was a joke but there is actually plague downtown - north and to the east of staples center

 

[Whoot Whoot]

is Kreider the new Staal yet?

 

[egelband]

Extremely dangerous play by Brown on Panarin. Thankfully, Artemi looked fine.

by the way, he can throw even with guys from different weight classes.

What happened? Didn’t see the game/working.

 

[Matt Rentfree]

is Kreider the new Staal yet?

No, but the Kings are the new Devils. I've watched more entertaining golf matches.

 

[Maximus]

How much does anyone really think Kreider will net us once we deal him hypothetically if is his play continues at this level?

I'm in agreement with alot of you guys that he seems to have mailed it in and is playing soft as if to try and not to get injured or something like that. Once upon a time I thought we could defintily get a #1 pick from some playoff bound team at the deadline but now? I dunno, we might get lucky and some team will be desperate and give us a #1 but he better pick up his play quite a bit for this to happen.

The only thing that gives me some hope is that Hayes got us a #1 pick plus Lemieux last year and tho his game did pick up before the deadline last year which helped us, he is not the player that a motivated Kreider is.

I gotta be honest...I'm concerned about this and Kreider is f***ing with us right now with his pathetic play. Would be nice if he showed some damn pride and started to play like he's capable of.

 

[bobbop]

I thought the 1-4 trap had faded from the game. All night all I could think of was how boring the New Jersey Devils made hockey. Just brutal hockey to watch and the Rangers played into the Kings hand. Too many passes, not enough shots.

At the other end, the Rangers simply have to do a better job cleaning up rebounds. Too many, way too many. One area when The King just isn’t as sharp as he used to be is directing rebounds out of high traffic areas. And he gets no help from several of his defensemen.

 

[Anzi]

So I took a look at some goalie stats from NHL Goalie Statistics

Lundqvist has created 1.906% more rebounds per save above expectation which is the 7th worst in the league. He also has a save % above expectation of -0.148%. Creating more rebounds than expected while also allowing more goals than expected. Not a good combination. Lundqvist has been awful on the penalty kill, with a save percentage above expectation of -4.44% which is 3rd worst in the league. He's been solid 5v5 with 0.324% above expectation which is 14th in the league.

Georgiev on the other hand creates 0.771% more rebounds but leads the league by a significant margin in save percentage over expectation at 1.253%. Georgiev's save percentage above expectation on the penalty kill is 2.201% which is top 3 in the league. 5v5 he is 0.68% above expectation which is 7th in the league.

It seems that those charts that have floated around about goalie performance and have Lundqvist as the better goalie are not representative of reality since they only take into account 5v5 performance. Georgiev has a 6.641% differential in save percentage above expectation on the penalty kill compared to Lundqvist which is massive. Georgiev is basically saving 96% of shots on the penalty kill compared to just 90% for Lundqvist, despite a slightly higher difficulty of shots faced.

He didn't allow any power play goals this game but his overall level of play has been down. Still a relatively small sample size but Lundqvist has simply not been very good this season.

 

[gravey9]

Was at game. A few observations.

1 - Lundqvist was really having trouble with rebound control. Left so many juicy rebounds all night. He needed to retain control or kick out with more authority. But it seemed like he was a bit slow/beind the play all night -- like, he'd kick out his pad at the very last moment. He wasn't in control and it created a lot of havoc for the D. Just not a great game from him. The 2nd goal is on him. He needed to catch the initial shot more cleanly. And on the first goal, I wonder if Hank of 5 years ago keeps himself upright and instead pushes off to get back over to the other post (as opposed to the desperation lunge). I don't exactly fault him for that one.

2 - I've watched a lot of Kings games this year. I said if the Kings get the lead, it's going to get boring. They are a slow, heavy-ish team with limited skill. They dump and chase. They sit back and play a 1-4. They clog the middle of the ice in their zone and blog shots. Once they had the lead it was a good test for this young team and we didn't look great. When the opposing team isn't giving up shooting lanes you need to get the puck to the net and get rebounds and screen shots and dirty goals. They needed to makes passes off Quick's pads and crash the net. Instead they kept passing it around the perimeter.

3 - The forwards are really suffering from a complete lack of chemistry right now. I'm not sure there's a single combo right now that's clicking. Quinn needs to keep mixing and matching until something clicks. I think they need to put the original KZB back together and put panarin with Chytil and buch. Let the top 6 be about speed, speed and more speed. Then, strome kakko and lemiuex.

4 - Kreider. Man, just not playing with the focus and fortitude one would expect. Yes, he skates hard. But once he gets there, he's missing with his stick, with his body, just not very effective. I don't care if he's scoring. But he needs to find a more effective game. I qA really disappointed by his play this evening.

5 - Team needs to shoot and push for rebounds. There's just no dirty goals. no rebound goals. And it makes them easier to defend.

6 - Buch. For as effective as Buch is at times - which is often -- he also has a habit of floating a bit. Being too easy to play against, not getting back to defend, et. Watching him live, you can see why Quinn might get frustrated with him.

7 - Kakko -- He had a lot of shots. But he passed up a few early in the first that he needed to take.

8 - FWIW and it was to be expected, but seeing them live, the Rangers forwards just aren't supporting the D enough. Especially when opposing team is counter-attacking. I don't understand why Quinn is allowing this roster to play so easy against opponents.

9 - Howden needs more man strength. He really had trouble against the Kings size.

 

[EdJovanovski]

Just got home from the Canucks/Leafs game and finished watching this one on PVR. I don’t know what all the pessimism is about, the 1st was one of our best periods of hockey all season. Kakko looked a lot better this game as well. We just ran into a hot goalie.

1) Panarin
2) Kakko
3) Buchnevich

 

[Deleted member 23124]

How much does anyone really think Kreider will net us once we deal him hypothetically if is his play continues at this level?

I'm in agreement with alot of you guys that he seems to have mailed it in and is playing soft as if to try and not to get injured or something like that. Once upon a time I thought we could defintily get a #1 pick from some playoff bound team at the deadline but now? I dunno, we might get lucky and some team will be desperate and give us a #1 but he better pick up his play quite a bit for this to happen.

The only thing that gives me some hope is that Hayes got us a #1 pick plus Lemieux last year and tho his game did pick up before the deadline last year which helped us, he is not the player that a motivated Kreider is.

I gotta be honest...I'm concerned about this and Kreider is ****ing with us right now with his pathetic play. Would be nice if he showed some damn pride and started to play like he's capable of.

Hayes netted what he did because he was a consistent player who improved every year (except his sophomore year) and was one of the few players who managed to improve despite playing for AV. And he was also a solid two-way player...On paper, he was a perfect piece for a contender that was "going for it".

I don't think anyone sees Kreider in that light...Despite getting 1st line minutes, I think most GMs will see him as a reclamation project.

 

[Kaapo Kakko]

So I took a look at some goalie stats from NHL Goalie Statistics

Lundqvist has created 1.906% more rebounds per save above expectation which is the 7th worst in the league. He also has a save % above expectation of -0.148%. Creating more rebounds than expected while also allowing more goals than expected. Not a good combination. Lundqvist has been awful on the penalty kill, with a save percentage above expectation of -4.44% which is 3rd worst in the league. He's been solid 5v5 with 0.324% above expectation which is 14th in the league.

Georgiev on the other hand creates 0.771% more rebounds but leads the league by a significant margin in save percentage over expectation at 1.253%. Georgiev's save percentage above expectation is 2.201% which is top 3 in the league. 5v5 he is 0.68% above expectation which is 7th in the league.

It seems that those charts that have floated around about goalie performance and have Lundqvist as the better goalie are not representative of reality since they only take into account 5v5 performance. Georgiev has a 6.641% differential in save percentage above expectation on the penalty kill compared to Lundqvist which is massive. Georgiev is basically saving 96% of shots on the penalty kill compared to just 90% for Lundqvist, despite a slightly higher difficulty of shots faced.

He didn't allow any power play goals this game but his overall level of play has been down. Still a relatively small sample size but Lundqvist has simply not been very good this season.

Lundqvist has been putrid all season. Sad to say this but he's entering Richter 2004 territory at this point. Great career, but it's time for him to go. He's not going to be the next Rangers goalie to lift the cup. He and the Rangers need to accept that. It doesn't take anything away from his career though. His window was from 2012-2015. Rangers should've had at least 1 cup in that time span. Oh well. That's life. Richter remains the "standard" as far as Ranger goalies go.

 

[jacko23]

That kick by brown to Panarin really ticked me off. He has always been a dirty pos.

Anyone have a video of this? I get up early for work so theres no way i can watch games out west.

 

[eco's bones]

The game could almost be summed up by our two fights. After the second period when asked Skjei said something along the lines he thought by fighting Wagner he could spark the team. I'm not having it--he did not want to fight Wagner. Wagner wanted to fight him though it's pretty much a non fight that neither won. MacDermid is huge and he is a real fighter--the son of goon Paul MacDermid. Smith had no chance. MacDermid grabbed him and used his reach. Bigger, stronger, more experienced at fighting, reach advantage--Smith was more willing than Skjei but then again MacDermid was the one who wanted the fight.

The Kings wanted the game and the fights more than the Rangers did. The refs were shit--still if it weren't for posts and crossbars the Kings could have had a bunch of goals. As for Henrik he was alright. He wasn't great but it's also hard to play when you're constantly crowded in your own crease. I think we should have dressed Haley for this one--I don't think he would have made a difference as far as which team won but he might have extracted some blood from the other side--injected a bit more spirit into ours. We were too weak. Buch and Kreider were awful.

 

[WojtekWolski86]

I wonder if Howden puts extra padding in his hip pants for how much he gets knocked on his ice.

This team has trouble recognizing when their game isnt imposing its will on their opponent. LA clogs the middle and collapses. We needed low shots from the perimeter and create havoc in front of the net. When we did that Quick gave up juicy rebounds thst we simply failed to cash in on. But getting 5 shots in a period because they were looking for the perfect pass every time in the O zone gets old quick.

 

[Morten]

is the instigator rule no longer a thing?

 

[ThirdEye]

Lost to an 11-18 team.... Ugh. There are definitely teams we don't match up to well and the Kings are one of them

They seemed to lack that extra bit of focus today. Quick was good enough to to where they started pressing a bit and trying too hard

 

[cheech70]

Just watched Dvr...My 9 Thoughts

We played a very good first period..we hung in there with the trap and applied decent pressure.
Mika has not reached the level he was at pre injury
K2 has shown why he will be good ..he just runs out of steam in 30 seconds
Pavel no show for 2 periods then presto played well in 3rd.
Filip had great pace ..did not like moving him to wing to accommodate Strome and Howden.....Filip needs to continue to develop at 2c at all costs.
Clifford is a dirt bag.
First young player I lock up before UFA is Fox
If its true that Holland and Gorts are discussing Kreider I'd prefer sooner rather than later