JTBF81
Registered User
It's been 6 games, and he's a better fit in the top 6 imo, as he has been there on other teams in the past. As usual, you weren't right at all about anything Lightning related.
GDT: 3/17/25 - 7:00PM EDT - Philadelphia vs Tampa Bay
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Good point! Also, all of our 2nd round picks should perform like Kucherov, our third round picks Point. Any UFA we sign for league minimum should play like Martin St.Louis.
I am sure you are aware that Hagel played like dog doodoo when we first got him, but now that trade looks like the best deal in Lightning history. This false dichotomy is really laughable, he hasn't even found a place in the lineup yet. Wait and see, we really don't know yet.
Sky04
Registered User
- Jan 8, 2009
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Hagel didn't even play like Hagel his first 50 games here, he was awful. Nice try though.
Your attempts at sarcasm are ridiculous. Two first round picks are pretty significant assets. You expect a player at that price to make a difference. You can get a warm body playing 13 minutes a night for a lot less.
You realize Hagel was a young player right? It's like saying Geekie was bad and Sheary was bad, they're the same. No, you can't compare. Two completely different cases.
It's. Been. 6. Games.
No, I actually don't expect a player to step in and make an immediate huge difference playing 13 minutes a night, which several on here were worried was a possibility. I stated my issues with the cost of the deal when it happened, and I'm also one of the first to point out he's not playing great, I have no problem calling out the negative.
Declaring that we "lost the trade" is more chicken little overreaction from you though.
It's. Been. 6. Games.
DistantThunderRep
Registered User
- Mar 8, 2018
- 18,993
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The f*** are you talking about? The statement holds true if you are a shit team with no firepower on the top line. Bjorkstrand now gives us at minimum 3 lines of pressure and offensive threat. Bjorkstrand also has another season to continuously add that depth. Our Top 9 is pretty much sorted next year if they retain Gourde on a cheap deal too. What was those first round picks going to get us? Push for solely this year and nothing beyond it. Marchand? Taking on Jones? Couldn't possibly sign Rantanen? So who the hell else would have an impact not just today but for a couple years? Did they pay a premium? You damn well right they did, but is the team better because of it not just for this year but next year? Yeah it certainly is.
Cool, so how about we compare what those first round picks could have been then?
Howard - Possibly Great Late First
Nolan Foote - All Star
Cal Foote - All Star rapist
Brett Howden - Bottom 6 NHL'er
DeAngelo - All Star Asshole
Drouin - All Star Uggo
Koekkoek - All Star Flop
Vasy - Hall of Famer
Namestnikov - Great Bottom 6 Player, sucked his second time around here
Connolly - All Star Flop
Hedman - Hall of Famer
Stammer - Hall of Famer.
Helenius - I Completely forgot about this pick
Vladimir Mihalik - Who?
Andy Rogers - Right
Thats the last 20 years of first round picks. Out of those we hit something that doesn't happen too often in the NHL and got 3 legit Hall of Famer's. That isn't normal, that is a huge fluke and outlier. After that there is nothing but flops, a couple of NHL players, a racist, and a rapist. Those firsts are worthless, as a direct comparison to what we do with first round picks is 14% of the time we hit a Hall of Famer, 19% a regular NHL'er, 29% of the time a bust, 5% Racist, 5% Rapist. 6 years we didn't have a first round pick.
If you ask me that is too low of chances with Hall of Famers and too high of odds of Racists and Rapists. Get rid of 1sts, they suck.
JTBF81
Registered User
Those 1st rd picks are doing exactly what they should be doing for Tampa at this point in their window, which is acquiring proven talent in an attempt to.maximize this team's cup chances with this core. Bjorkstrand and Gourde are both very good middle 6 players, and once Bjorkstrand gets more acclimated and hopefully gets a chance in the top 6, he'll be back to the 50 or so point player, with great defensive metrics, that he usually is. Players with term cost, and Seattle had no reason to move any of their guys with term, as did no other team, without high prices coming back. Very few ppl had Bjorkstrand going for less then 1st+good prospect+additional pick, and Gourde wasn't going for less than a 2nd or a bit more.
Bjorkstrand and Gourde are both far more to the team than "warm bodies" that will play 13 minutes a night. They bring much needed depth and, more so in Bjorkstrand's case, but also with Gourde, additional scoring ability and the ability to roll at least 3 lines that can pressure the opponent and put the puck in the net. So as most have said, you proclaiming that the trade was awful and Tampa lost it after 6 whole games is about as accurate as most of your takes on here, which is to say, not very. Did Tampa overpay in a vacuum, yes, but that doesn't mean Tampa is going to, or has, lost the trade. Trades can also be win-win, so there doesn't actually have to be a loser.
JTBF81
Registered User
The fact that JBB was able to negotiate the deal with likely the 2nd 1st rather than having to add any of Howard, Geekie, Gauthier or even Duke is one of the best parts about it imo. The '26 1st was always a goner, but if it came down to the '27 1st or a close to ready prospect, it's fantastic that it's the pick (a player that, as you said, probably has a low % of ever helping the team and certainly not during this window barring sone very lucky breaks). The picks are also top 10 protected, so even if somehow Tampa did fall off for some weird reason one of the next two years, Tampa could still draft an actual impact player. I guess they should have just paid the high premium for Boeser though, and then faced his massive raise this summer lol.
I've never even mentioned Gourde, but somehow you all bring him into the conversation. 2nd round for Gourde is ok, whatever. I have questions about the other part of the deal. I noticed Bjorkstrand 3 times in those 6 games: when he scored on a rebound, when he hit the iron, and when he missed every shot on the PP (Raddysh could do the same).
Well, let's wait until the playoffs, maybe something will change. If not, you'll probably admit that I was right and apologize, right?
Well, let's wait until the playoffs, maybe something will change. If not, you'll probably admit that I was right and apologize, right?
IDK. Maybe Gourde is being brought up because he was part of the deal? There were a lot more moving parts and caveats involved in that trade that you are glossing over but it's pointless to argue about them with you when you've clearly lost the plot.
You like to point out the Hagel deal and how he was worth more because of how young he was, but that also means there was a lot more inherent risk with him. He could have been a product of P Kane, had no draft pedigree to speak of, and for the first half a season here he looked like was a complete bust of a trade like Jeannot.
On the other hand we know what Bjorkstrand is capable of, we know what we're getting because he has many seasons of doing it and is in his prime, it's a win now move. For some reason you're just laser focused on 6 games though
Are you implying that one of the 1sts was traded for him or what? I think it's obvious that his cost was 2nd + 4th for extra retention.
And as far as I remember, unlike me, you claimed that 2nd for Gourde is too expensive. So you really valued draft picks and wanted to trade them for the best players possible, but apparently something changed.
We paid a 4th to Detroit just to cover 25% of the salary, so what do you think we paid to Seattle to cover 50%?? Definitely more than that. Here's a fact, we don't know.
I don't remember exactly what I said about Gourde, but I know I didn't want him due to concerns with the injury, apparently JBB was convinced he was fine. I know that I've actively said that Bjorkstrand is probably the best player available on the market. Nothing has changed, I am still not a big fan of the cost, and I wanted to trade for a younger guy like Zetterlund.
Unlike you however, I can understand why the trade was made, hope that it works out, and will actively cheer that it does. Just because JBB doesn't do what I want him to do doesn't mean I can't be open minded to other ideas working out. That's called a measured response, wow
Nothing. He was basically 4th liner in Seattle. 2nd for him 50% is more than fair.
JTBF81
Registered User
Anyone on here or elsewhere that thought Tampa was getting a player with term that is a solid 2nd line RW and excellent 3rd line RW for some small cost is only fooling themselves. Most trades I made for him and others I saw had a guaranteed 1st (either '25 or '26 depdnding on the team), a prospect ranked reasonably high in the organization, and a pick like a 3rd, plus whatever salary was needed. If Tampa had to pay the '26 1st+a 2nd+3rd+Gauthier+Ace+4th, sure the optics may have looked slightly better to those on here that overvalue 1st rd picks 3 drafts from now, but I'd rather have kept one of the organization's better prospects that might help the team either next year or year after, or could be used in another trade if needed for a better player this summer or maybe next tdl. That '27 1st is some 15 year old right now, and not someone that JBB, Cooper, or any player in this core is remotely worried about helping this team.
Sure, among players who were actually traded, Zetterlund would've also been great, and he went for a good price. While that's all and good, no one knows if JBB was even interested in him or if S.J. had any desire for anything that Tampa would've been willing to deal for him.
In the end, whether this trade leads to another title or.not, I'd much rather see this team continue to push for it rather than hoards future draft picks to try and select a player who maybe has a 20% chance of being helpful to whatever this team may look like in 2030 or 2031. As JBB said at his presser (or something to this effect), I'd rather make these moves and fail knowing we did what we could to improve the team, than fail after having done little to nothing to give them their best chance at more Cups during this windkw.
Sure, among players who were actually traded, Zetterlund would've also been great, and he went for a good price. While that's all and good, no one knows if JBB was even interested in him or if S.J. had any desire for anything that Tampa would've been willing to deal for him.
In the end, whether this trade leads to another title or.not, I'd much rather see this team continue to push for it rather than hoards future draft picks to try and select a player who maybe has a 20% chance of being helpful to whatever this team may look like in 2030 or 2031. As JBB said at his presser (or something to this effect), I'd rather make these moves and fail knowing we did what we could to improve the team, than fail after having done little to nothing to give them their best chance at more Cups during this windkw.
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It's the hfboards way to spam the forum the short while it looks like you were right about something.
I hate that JBB loads first rounders into a shotgun and empties the barrels, but with Vasy playing as good as he is and our team currently 3rd in the league in goal differential (Florida's 7th, Toronto 11th), this is probably the last best shot to take. Gourde and Bjorkstrand don't have to be worth 2 first rounders, they just have to be enough to help get this team to the finals, and then I'd have to admit it was worth it. If we get dominated in the first or second round like we did last year, it will have to make you question JBB's ability to assess this team and the rest of the league, or at least his trade strategy of pay whatever it takes to get the players he wants.
I hate that JBB loads first rounders into a shotgun and empties the barrels, but with Vasy playing as good as he is and our team currently 3rd in the league in goal differential (Florida's 7th, Toronto 11th), this is probably the last best shot to take. Gourde and Bjorkstrand don't have to be worth 2 first rounders, they just have to be enough to help get this team to the finals, and then I'd have to admit it was worth it. If we get dominated in the first or second round like we did last year, it will have to make you question JBB's ability to assess this team and the rest of the league, or at least his trade strategy of pay whatever it takes to get the players he wants.
No, people will still praise him because if you say something bad about JBB or Cooper then you are a hater and not a fan
Stelio Kontos
Registered User
- Nov 6, 2011
- 790
- 328
How would it be Julian Bigballs fault if we lost in the 1st round?? He can’t build over the cap super team every year he gives the coaching staff the players they want. It’s the coaching staffs fault that they can’t utilize them or come up with new game plan besides give the puck to Kuch
JBB top 2 GM in the league.
JBB top 2 GM in the league.
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JTBF81
Registered User
Yeah, regardless of how far the team goes, it won't determine if this trade was good or not. For one, it's likely both of these players will be back next year,.and the team, at least on paper, could be even better than this season. As long as JBB views the team as being in a contention window, he'll keep doing what he can to fill any holes and give them the best chance to win. JBB has provided Cooper with the best team he could given cap constraints and his vision of how the team should function most optimally. With the exception of the Jeannot trade and subsequently trading Colton out, his more significant moves have been good to great.
Stammertime91
TBL: TEAM OF THE CENTURY
We are two points behind 1st in the Atlantic and you wanted Cooper canned at game #27. You and Bartledoo were advocating for Cooper to be fired because we weren't better than Washington.... the same Washington who is #1 in the conference and 13 points clear of Florida.
You must go through bottles of lotion everytime someone responds to your L takes. You just double down on more things that are false.
DistantThunderRep
Registered User
- Mar 8, 2018
- 18,993
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So, wait hold the f***ing phone here. In pretty much every metric this season, the team is at the top. There is next to no metric this season where you can actually shit on the team and bitch about Coop and JBB.
I actually question how you function in life. Like you're wife/husband comes home and brings you home dinner, and you flip out throw it against the wall because you already ate dinner.
If we get dominated in the first round, can I bitch about Coop and JBB?
Stammertime91
TBL: TEAM OF THE CENTURY
"It's supposed to be 89 degrees when it hits my plate! This is only 86! It's not hot enough."
DistantThunderRep
Registered User
- Mar 8, 2018
- 18,993
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You saying like we get swept? So everything is black and white to you? What if the reason we get swept is because Vasy blows out his knee in the next 10 games? Or Heddy and Kuch break their arms? Like is it completely going to be always the Big Bad JBB and Coops fault? Your rage boner for both of them is really blinding you here. Honestly, it actually makes zero sense why you would be talking so much shit now, when the team is performing the best they have in years.
JTBF81
Registered User
I'm sure when the Lightning went b2b, they gave zero credit to either Coop or JBB because those teams were uncommonly stacked for the cap era, and oh right, likely said they were only victorious because they beat sub optimal opponents in the Final those two seasons.
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