Post-Game Talk: #3 - 10/12/19 | oilers @ RANGERS

[GeorgeKaplan]

My main gripe with AV's system (his usage and rotten attitude aside) is that we would back at up at both lines, just let teams waltz into our zone, and then start worrying about it. We still do that.

Either it's a Ruff thing, or the Rangers just don't feel they have the personnel to step up. But then you reach a point where it can't be any worse.

I feel like AV sees shots against as the other team giving up possession and the system is based around the goalie making the stop, and then a defenseman getting the rebound and passing it to a forward that’s already flying out of the zone

 

[Machinehead]

I feel like AV sees shots against as the other team giving up possession and the system is based around the goalie making the stop, and then a defenseman getting the rebound and passing it to a forward that’s already flying out of the zone

Yeah for sure. And now we're still doing that without the pond hockey.

 

[The S5]

Then why can a team with a lack of skill outside of one line execute like the Oilers?

Seems like they have two lines this year, but that is irrelevant. Every coach has systems. Just because a team wins a game doesn't necessarily make the system better or players more talented. There are many factors that go into winning games that can't be seen on a whiteboard or spreadsheet.
You might also ask if it was the Oilers executing or the Rangers not executing. Or, do the Oilers have more talent than the Rangers?

I'm sure Tippet's system wasn't responsible for the last goal against.

 

[will1066]

For sure Tippett's system played a part in the win. I mean Joe said that his defensive system made the Oilers a completely different team defensively than last year. And Joe is the best analyst in the game.

 

[offdacrossbar]

few thoughts on game

Buchnevich needs off that top line step slow all the time and seems predicable and mechanical.

i continue to question his fitness. Always seems gassed. He makes some good passes but too often they are blocked or dont connect.

good for strome and KK. Strome makes alot of subtle plays that lead to chances. Doesnt help kreider has hands of stone.

Speaking of kreider. Hes been bad.

i love quickie but hes a 4th liner. Move him down.

Howden does nothing for me. Really. He does
nothing.

 

[ReggieDunlop68]

Found it for NYR tenure (Zach notes that the last season was a typo and it meant to say 17/18)

Are we still debating whether the team from the 2014 flop until the beginning of the Quinn era was an exponentially decaying pile of rotten ass?

 

[Machinehead]

Frankly, I get Kakko not being on the top line and I think people just look for reasons to go after Buchnevich. He's fine at 5v5.

I would, however, swap them on the PP. Kakko looked electric on the PP in camp and Buchnevich has never really been good there. And he's forced to be a QB being the only lefty.

 

[egelband]

I don’t know about a serious run this year (but I guess you can’t count that out with McDavid and Draisaitl), but from my perspective, they’re definitely on the right track now and maybe a little further down it than people would’ve thought

Maybe Edmonton becomes a buyer soon.

 

[aufheben]

I'm not insinuating that we should contend this year. I came into the year assuming we'd get another top 10 pick. But that's not what I'm getting at. Do you guys not ever watch the Rangers and think that as a team they're just lacking fundamentals as a team? They can't cycle, they give up the blue line defensively, etc etc that all teams do differently. I don't care how young or old you are, I'm talking about a system and how the players are taught to play within it.

I try to watch as many other NHL games as I can daily... a west coast game after the Rangers games, and an east coast game as well if the Rangers aren't playing. I've realized that few things are unique to any one team, and that most teams have things in common: styles, systems, flaws, errors, disagreeable lines, favoritism, etc. Every team plays shit games all the time. Off the top of my head, Boston, Vegas, and maybe Carolina can play their structures and fundamentals to a T most of the time. And there are a LOT of teams I would not trade places with right now.

That doesn't mean the Rangers aren't lacking exactly what you've mentioned, but it's not a hex on the organization, and while it's probably not as extreme or constant as people think, flaws and lack of fundamental play should be expected at this stage. This roster is really, really young. The coaching staff has to juggle the progression of the organization's youth while playing competitively every night at the same time. Their options in a lot of ares are limited due not only the lack of experienced NHLers but the lack of talent on the roster. Coaching decisions and team play should not be disregarded at all, but they shouldn't be expected to play like the 2008 Red Wings either. The rebuild is clearly far from over, and might never be fully completed, but there's something to be said for being somewhat contented with the pace and fortune of it to this point.

I'm not surprised that people are upset with losing and X coaching choices, but that game honestly became a win for me as soon as Kakko scored.

 

[Amazing Kreiderman]

Frankly, I get Kakko not being on the top line and I think people just look for reasons to go after Buchnevich. He's fine at 5v5.

I would, however, swap them on the PP. Kakko looked electric on the PP in camp and Buchnevich has never really been good there. And he's forced to be a QB being the only lefty.

NYR PP1: Lamborghini
NYR PP2: Chevy Spark with Kakko being the upgraded display with built-in GPS

 

[Larrybiv]

My main gripe with AV's system (his usage and rotten attitude aside) is that we would back at up at both lines, just let teams waltz into our zone, and then start worrying about it. We still do that.

Either it's a Ruff thing, or the Rangers just don't feel they have the personnel to step up. But then you reach a point where it can't be any worse.

I am no coach, but the Rangers need to "identify" opposing teams "likely players" that have a tendency to dump and chase. Then, have at least 1 defenseman delegated to stepping up at the blue line (the slowest ones, least likely to turn around and go get it)
We have to be better at retrieving pucks, not allowing teams to cycle on us and controlling play.
Seems we have better speed in the neutral zone, but absolutely cannot turn the puck over as it goes the other way, and we are too inexperienced to expect good results. Sooner or later those turnovers cost.
I wonder if secretly Quinn doesnt want Ruff. I mean, does he have say so in regard to Ruff? Is it that it would "look bad" if he wanted him out? I believe something has got to be done there. Ruff is way too "old school" and doesnt have the horses which coincide with his way of thinking. I have no proof of anything I have said, its just my gut telling me that Ruff is NOT the best suited for this young team. Might be hard to relate to most of them. I'm simply not a Ruff fan. Period.

 

[Kovalev27]

It’s silly to think that Quinn was brought in here to be a development coach yet that doesn’t apply to the defense and it’s all Ruff. That’s not what’s happening. This is Quinn’s system. He’s got a young blueline and an old blueline. Those have been the issues. Either guys are young and are showing growing pains or guys are old like Staal smith and shattenkirk and can’t defend anymore.

finally he’s got a Trouba who’s in his prime to lean on. Why he didn’t on Saturday though is beyond me. Should have been glued to the top line.

 

[offdacrossbar]

I actually think staal and ADA played pretty well against the mcdavid line.

quinn matching those guys up makes sense. Staal was given the assignment to play matchup d and for the most part did just that. ADA moved the puck well and was all over kassian. Those 2 did an admirable job against that top line.

Matching trouba and hajek poses a more difficult assignment for the young dman against the top player in the world. Hajek would have been exposed.

i give quinn a hard time frequently but this time i agree with his decision.

this game was ALOT closer than the score. I think this rusty nyr team did well to be 1-1 as long as they were against a very very talented and improved oilers team

as an aside, both nyr PP units are fun to watch and will be the key to this team hanging around all season scratching for a playoff spot

the puck movement and passing of those 2 units is intoxicating.

 

[Kovalev27]

I actually think staal and ADA played pretty well against the mcdavid line.

quinn matching those guys up makes sense. Staal was given the assignment to play matchup d and for the most part did just that. ADA moved the puck well and was all over kassian. Those 2 did an admirable job against that top line.

Matching trouba and hajek poses a more difficult assignment for the young dman against the top player in the world. Hajek would have been exposed.

i give quinn a hard time frequently but this time i agree with his decision.

this game was ALOT closer than the score. I think this rusty nyr team did well to be 1-1 as long as they were against a very very talented and improved oilers team

as an aside, both nyr PP units are fun to watch and will be the key to this team hanging around all season scratching for a playoff spot

the puck movement and passing of those 2 units is intoxicating.

they defended ALOT that’s not exactly doing well. The Mika line got pinned a ton with 18 and 77. Instead of driving offensive zone time.

they didn’t break until late but they didn’t generate anything compared to the time they’ve spent with Trouba on ice.

 

[Kovalev27]

And by the way once again this schedule is horrific and is the main reason we played the way we did and will probably play the same on Thursday. While also making me and everyone else on this board insufferable right now

 

[Megustaelhockey]

I understand that we aren't living in a golden age of coaching right now, but I feel that the revolving door behind the bench has been a huge problem for this team historically. Just because the cheese doesn't taste like you thought it would, that doesn't mean it has mold on it yet.

Fred Shero
Mike Keenan
Glen Sather
John Tortorella
Lindy Ruff
Alain Vigneault

All Rangers coaches (or assistants, in Ruff's case) who have won the Jack Adams when they have been somewhere else. At a certain point, the burden of accountability has to lie somewhere else.

 

[offdacrossbar]

they defended ALOT that’s not exactly doing well. The Mika line got pinned a ton with 18 and 77. Instead of driving offensive zone time.

they didn’t break until late but they didn’t generate anything compared to the time they’ve spent with Trouba on ice.

Defending ALOT against mcd and dri isnt unusual.

best player in the world and his 50 goal scorer side kick have a way of making things tough on defenders.

1-1 at the start of the 3rd with 18 and 77 matching plus the mika line holding the mcd line to 2 shots on goal thru 2 periods.

imo our top line outplayed their top line for most of the game

 

[Raspewtin]

Defending ALOT against mcd and dri isnt unusual.

best player in the world and his 50 goal scorer side kick have a way of making things tough on defenders.

1-1 at the start of the 3rd with 18 and 77 matching plus the mika line holding the mcd line to 2 shots on goal thru 2 periods.

imo our top line outplayed their top line for most of the game

Draisaitl and McDavid absolutely globetrotted TDA and Staal from the drop of the puck. Those "two shots through two periods" just mean they missed a lot; which they did.

That line had 4 High Danger chances at even strength, the Rangers as a team had 5.

They got really, really lucky that Kassian is absolute garbage because this game could've been 6-1.

 

[will1066]

Frankly, I get Kakko not being on the top line and I think people just look for reasons to go after Buchnevich. He's fine at 5v5.

I would, however, swap them on the PP. Kakko looked electric on the PP in camp and Buchnevich has never really been good there. And he's forced to be a QB being the only lefty.

Kakko has had some minutes with Mika and Panarin, coming from delayed line changes and the odd shift from line juggling. What has he shown in those minutes? Nothing.

 

[offdacrossbar]

Draisaitl and McDavid absolutely globetrotted TDA and Staal from the drop of the puck. Those "two shots through two periods" just mean they missed a lot; which they did.

That line had 4 High Danger chances at even strength, the Rangers as a team had 5.

They got really, really lucky that Kassian is absolute garbage because this game could've been 6-1.

thru 50 mins it was 1-1

hank played great and he had alot of pipe but thats part of the deal.

thru 50 mins the oil scored 1 and it was klefbom.

The game turned on the PP but until that, it was an even game and the 18/77 pair did pretty well

overall not unhappy with the effort at all.

ill see your kassian is garbage and raise you with kreider has been more garbage.

panarin had an off game too. The PP didnt score enough

 

[Oilers in NS]

If I was a betting man I’d say he will be

I like him. Piwerful

 

[Cloned]

It was a winnable game.
Tippett changed up the game plan up midway through the game and stuffed it down Quinn's throat.
Tippett played the hand in front of him while Quinn didn't do ****..

Oilers fan here, I don't have the same tactical eye for the game that you do, just wondering what it was exactly that Tippett changed up?

 

[Kovalev27]

Frankly, I get Kakko not being on the top line and I think people just look for reasons to go after Buchnevich. He's fine at 5v5.

I would, however, swap them on the PP. Kakko looked electric on the PP in camp and Buchnevich has never really been good there. And he's forced to be a QB being the only lefty.

yeah I don’t see an issue with Buch at 5 on 5 being on the top line. Kakko though is so much more dangerous on the pp that’s probably just a matter of time. But the pp has been producing other than in game 3 so hard to complain about it. We just haven’t played many games so this is getting over analyzed

 

[NYR]

Oilers fan here, I don't have the same tactical eye for the game that you do, just wondering what it was exactly that Tippett changed up?

Tippett coached a really smart game, not that Quinn made it all that tough on him.
He made adjustments as the game went on and EDM was really able to ramp up the pressure without any answer from Quinn in the least.
Then once they got the lead they stuffed the NYR at the blue line.
This isn't necessarily a talent thing.
In those instances, when teams stack up on the blue line, you have no choice but to dump and chase.
Did Quinn change up his game plan at any point after he "recognized" what was going on? Na.
Did he adjust for match-ups? Na.
Put his best dman against the top line? Na.
Fwds backcheck? Na.
Does anyone even know where to be in all this craziness?? Naa! Lol
Quinn is green AF..

 

[NYR]

It’s silly to think that Quinn was brought in here to be a development coach yet that doesn’t apply to the defense and it’s all Ruff. That’s not what’s happening. This is Quinn’s system. He’s got a young blueline and an old blueline. Those have been the issues. Either guys are young and are showing growing pains or guys are old like Staal smith and shattenkirk and can’t defend anymore.

finally he’s got a Trouba who’s in his prime to lean on. Why he didn’t on Saturday though is beyond me. Should have been glued to the top line.

I'm not advocating for Ruff but people just don't get this..