28 Years ago today, Mario Lemieux returned to play from cancer treatment
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The Panther
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I feel like the NHL Mario entered in '84, the NHL he (still) dominated in the mid-90s, and the NHL he had his comeback-era in from '01 to '04 (plus an old-man blip post-Lockout) were all quite different eras, but it doesn't matter to a player of his skill-set. Even if he wasn't fast anymore, he was still fast enough, and the hands were just better than anyone. There were a lot of low-skill, average-hands players by the dead-puck era who were there on account of size only, and Mario could just shred those kind of players, whether he was still fast or not. He was big, too, but had the softest hands around.
I would describe him physically as a 'freak of nature' (in the best possibly way), in that it should be completely impossible for a heavy man, in his mid-30s, to come back after 3.5 years and dominate for over half a season, at his former peak level. That's just unheard of.
I would describe him physically as a 'freak of nature' (in the best possibly way), in that it should be completely impossible for a heavy man, in his mid-30s, to come back after 3.5 years and dominate for over half a season, at his former peak level. That's just unheard of.
The Panther
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You know why Mario wanted that scoring title over Lafontaine?
QMJHL 1982-83 League Leaders at hockeydb.com
Big Phil
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That could be it for sure. Of course, there were players like Oates right in the mix as well for the Art Ross minus Mario. He dominated them all and 1993 was a top heavy year for talent and career years. It doesn't matter with a guy like Mario. 1996 was one of those years too and he was still shredding the NHL at that time.
Here is a quote from Paul Kariya in regards to the 2002 Olympics. I remember distinctly Kariya was surprised at how fast Mario still was at that stage. He stated he could "flat out fly" on the ice.
Kunta Kinte
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Remarkably, that was not the only noteworthy NHL moment on 3/2/1993
we got not only Lemieux’s return but also that same night had Teemu Selanne’s historic rookie record goal record breaker and his iconic celebration
Two memorable moments, each uniquely different but also ones we won’t forget
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He did, 100%.
But it was payback for an even greater theft, Lemieux stealing the Pearson in 86 - so it evens itself out in the end?
Voight
#winning
He completely turned around the Kings. Yea Mario had one of the best seasons ever, but you can certainly make the argument Gretzky was the "most valuable" that year. Either would have been a great pick, but lets not act like its some travesty Gretzky took home the Hart in '89
Gretzky had a better team around him because he was on the team. He elevated the likes of Kurri to elite and eventually HHOF status. Yea Slats did some great drafting but Gretzky just elevated the play of everyone around him. Mario didn't accomplish crap 9team wise) until his team loaded up with the likes of Francis, Jagr, Murphy, Coffey etc. Even individually; he didn't win any scoring titles until the Pens acquired Coffey.
Both were amazing in their own way & were going to score an insane amount regardless of who they were playing with but I just hate when people say "Gretzky had a better team around him" as a default (non)argument.
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Dingo
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you will get killed here.
you might even be joking.
(either way, i agree. he was very good defensively, and, of the truly elite offensive defensemen - Orr, Potvin, Coffey, Karlsson, Bourque - he may have been the best defensively. I dont think he was as good as Stevens, Lidstrom, Pronger, Chelios, though)
Kunta Kinte
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ThisIsMyAlibi
Fan of the worst organization in the NHL
Didn’t Paul Coffey tie them a lot for him??
And he didn’t always have back issues.
If you’re going to
Mr. Fancy Pants
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I can't remember where I heard this so I don't know how true it is but apparently Lemieux hated playing against Kasparaitis so much that, when Lemieux was part owner of the Pens and playing, he ordered his GM at the time to trade for him.
haha, isn't that the truth at all levels. I've played against guys I'm sure were the biggest jerks ever and then I meet them outside the game and they'll be the friendliest guy around.
shills
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And he sure didn't forget in 83-84 when he blew the doors off those LaFontaine totals!
Amazing to think what Mario's numbers would have been in 92-93 had he not had to miss those games. If he was that motivated to surpass LaFontaine, what might he have done as he got to 200 points and saw 215 in the distance?
Nathaniel Skywalker
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But, Gretz only had 4 players around him. And he made them better. Everyone trying to lift Mario and downplay Gretz are grasping.
Actually, not to detract from his amazing comeback as he was my favourite player growing up and who I believe is legitimately the best of all time, but he arguably wasn't the best player on his line that season. Jagr had 84 points in 45 games after Lemieux's return.
Spirit of 67
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I just remember seeing a quote about his first ever goal. It went something like: On his first shift he had a break away and scored his first NHL goal and immediately surpassed Burgess Meredith as the greatest Penguin of all time.
Yeah except the fact that the team won the Cup after he left Edmonton while Gretzky never won another cup... LOL. To be fair though if you look at what he did in 1981-82 before the team around him became what it was he clearly didn't need a great team to dominate, but conversely the league at that point was still a far cry from what it would become in the next 10-15 years so it's hard for me to consider someone dominating at that point the absolute "best".
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BraveCanadian
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Pretty lousy pro-Lemieux argument as usual.. Lemieux didn't win a thing until the team around him was stacked, either. Hockey is a team sport - who knew.
Gretzky seemed to do just fine against the best in the world every tournament of his prime until being Sutered in '91 so there is that..
On the topic of the thread: it was incredible how Lemieux came back that year. What a time to be a fan of the NHL the early to mid-90s was..
"Gretzky had a better team around him because he was on the team" is demonstrably false, was the point. You are literally arguing the point I was making, not even Gretzky and Lemieux alone make as much of a diference as was implied by that poster.
BraveCanadian
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I think it is fairly safe to say that the Oilers developed the way they did, at least in part, because of Gretzky. A bigger portion would probably go to good drafting and to Sather's approach, but I think seeing how hard the best player in the world practiced, seeing how he approached certain game situations etc. rubs off. As someone said up thread, Lemieux himself says he learned a lot from playing with top players in the Canada Cup and his development took a sharp upward trajectory afterwards. And no, it is not demonstrably false. I don't think you know that that means.
The Gretzky "debate" really needs to end. There is no debate, he's the greatest to ever lace em up. It amazes me with all the records Gretzky holds that people still try arguing that (insert player here) is better. I mean, it seems to me there are far better things hockey related to debate.
