Around the League, 2024-25

[The Zetterberg Era]

McDavid is a better player than all of the players from the early 90s. He is maybe a half-step below a Mario/Gretzky/Jagr talent. Full stop.

He is on his 5th straight season about to hit 100 pts, and would have been 9th straight had it not been for injury; he was pacing for 124 points that year. Sergei Fedorov and Pavel Bure are not even remotely close to this player. I'm not sure what you are on about.

McDavid is the first Mount Rushmore challenger since Lindros in my opinion. Obviously we know injuries took him out but McDavid is in the Mario, Gretzky, Orr, Howe tier in threatening that.

I remember thinking Eichel would be close, I was wrong. McDavid is the most exciting player I think I have watched.

 

[Oddbob]

I am not saying the players of previous eras would be bad now. I never made that argument. I agree that Coffey would be great today - he would be Makar/Hughes+. I agree Gretzky would be dominant today.

I am simply saying that Connor is an all-time talent just like those guys you are describing, and would have been just as good in those eras. For soem reaosn, you seem to think that MacInnis/Gretzky/Coffey would destroy today's NHL, but that 1990s McDavid would suddenly be pedestrian because his skating talent would be nullified by *checks notes * hot dogs?

Honestly just kind of ridiculous. Phil Kessel ate hot dogs his entire career and was still one of the fastest players in the NHL. These things matter to some degree, but they do not matter for the absolute best talents that the world has ever seen, which McDavid is. I agree that Gretzky/Lemieux/etc are those talents. I am saying that McDavid is also one of those talents, and it's pure nostalgia to pretend like he isn't.


No, it isn't. His actual speed might not be faster, but his ability to play with the puck at that speed is MUCH better than anyone in history, by a massive, massive margin. Fact. Obviously the raw speed isn't the only feature of his game, otherwise Michael Grabner would have been the next Pavel Bure and Dylan Larkin would be just as good as McDavid. Didn't think I had to spell that out.

No, the difference is not about hooking and holding. Again, looks like you don't watch him play at all. Guys are constantly trying to hook and hold him and simply cannot make a connection because he is moving too quickly with the puck.

Hold on, hold on, I never said he wouldn't be great. I personally consider McDavid just below, Gretzky, Lemieux, and Orr, because he dominates his peers like those 3 before him in a way that no other has since those first 3. My dislike is how people on HF, (not necessarily you) always put the stars of today with everything of today back in that era, but then put Gretz and Mario and company in todays game with everything of yesterday. If you go one way, you have to go the other in reverse.

I already said, Connor is by far the best player at speed with the puck that I have ever seen. Aside from that though, I don't think he is better at passing or general offensive IQ than for example, MacKinnon or Crosby level players as Connor's game is heavily reliant on speed for dominance. That isn't a knock on Connor either.

 

[SirloinUB]

It really isn't. He plays the same now as 2-3 seasons ago. Yours is a fake narrative that HF produces about top end guys being better than they are at defence, just because they are really good players. It was the same the season Ovy won the Cup, they magically said he was better at defence just cause he won. When I watch Ovy play then and now, he is exactly the same level of defence as he ever was.

I watch the oilers as much as the Red Wings. It's not a fake narrative.

 

[RedHawkDown]

Hold on, hold on, I never said he wouldn't be great. I personally consider McDavid just below, Gretzky, Lemieux, and Orr, because he dominates his peers like those 3 before him in a way that no other has since those first 3. My dislike is how people on HF, (not necessarily you) always put the stars of today with everything of today back in that era, but then put Gretz and Mario and company in todays game with everything of yesterday. If you go one way, you have to go the other in reverse.

I already said, Connor is by far the best player at speed with the puck that I have ever seen. Aside from that though, I don't think he is better at passing or general offensive IQ than for example, MacKinnon or Crosby level players as Connor's game is heavily reliant on speed for dominance. That isn't a knock on Connor either.

Yeah then we don't really disagree. I think Mario and Gretz would be destroying the league today, too. People in the 80s and 90s were very lucky to have two (maybe 3 if you count Jagr) talents of this level in the league at the same time.

 

[Oddbob]

Yeah then we don't really disagree. I think Mario and Gretz would be destroying the league today, too. People in the 80s and 90s were very lucky to have two (maybe 3 if you count Jagr) talents of this level in the league at the same time.

I think Jagr had a 6 year run that is up with Gretzky and Mario, unfortunately his game became much less after that and then he played way too long as just a good player which makes people forget how good he was. During that run I don't think there was anyone better than Jagr.

I watch the oilers as much as the Red Wings. It's not a fake narrative.


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I never care about these fancy stat charts. When you watch him play he floats a lot. Making a smart play here and there doesn't make you good at defence. Matthews just finished 3rd in Selke voting last season and he isn't good at defence either. They float which isn't even running them down as not everybody needs to be a stud, but pretending they are something they aren't is just silly. Larkin isn't even a Selke level guy by league view, but he is miles better than both Matthews and McDavid in his own end.

 

[Frk It]

And they cannot stop him, with legal means or otherwise, because people cannot get close enough to him to hook or hold him the vast majority of the time.

This.

 

[SirloinUB]

I think Jagr had a 6 year run that is up with Gretzky and Mario, unfortunately his game became much less after that and then he played way too long as just a good player which makes people forget how good he was. During that run I don't think there was anyone better than Jagr.



I never care about these fancy stat charts. When you watch him play he floats a lot. Making a smart play here and there doesn't make you good at defence. Matthews just finished 3rd in Selke voting last season and he isn't good at defence either. They float which isn't even running them down as not everybody needs to be a stud, but pretending they are something they aren't is just silly. Larkin isn't even a Selke level guy by league view, but he is miles better than both Matthews and McDavid in his own end.

Connor McDavid is not a floater. He is in the 99th percentile for speed bursts over 32 km/h and the 98th percentile for total distance skated. He's among the league leaders (95th percentile) for Average distance/60 skating 1 km more than league average.

He is also at the top of the league for speed bursts. League average speed bursts of 32-35 km/h is 54. Connor has 255 lol.

 

[Hazy Little Thing]

I can’t believe we still have dinosaurs that think McDavid isn’t fantastic, if not elite, defensively. And it’s not a new thing either.

 

[Hazy Little Thing]

Connor McDavid is not a floater. He is in the 99th percentile for speed bursts over 32 km/h and the 98th percentile for total distance skated. He's among the league leaders (95th percentile) for Average distance/60 skating 1 km more than league average.

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He is also at the top of the league for speed bursts. League average speed bursts of 32-35 km/h is 54. Connor has 255 lol.

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And it’s not just the speed bursts, it’s the speed at which he can handle the puck at an elite level that Bure, and even Fedorov, couldn’t do at his level.

Some people need to appreciate watching the best player of time in his prime and not wait til after he hangs em up to realize what you were witnessing.

 

[jkutswings]

Some people need to appreciate watching the best player of time in his prime and not wait til after he hangs em up to realize what you were witnessing.

You're assuming that everyone here are fans of the sport at large, simply enjoying talent regardless of tier or team.

I'm a Detroit Red Wings fan. I couldn't care less about Connor McDavid or an Avalanche/Stars matchup on a random Tuesday. (It's also why I didn't watch any of the Four Nations Tournament, but that's a story for another thread.)

If you enjoy watching McDavid, cool. Soak it all in for however you choose to be a fan. But don't declare who or what others should follow. Each person can choose that for themselves.

 

[Hazy Little Thing]

You're assuming that everyone here are fans of the sport at large, simply enjoying talent regardless of tier or team.

I'm a Detroit Red Wings fan. I couldn't care less about Connor McDavid or an Avalanche/Stars matchup on a random Tuesday. (It's also why I didn't watch any of the Four Nations Tournament, but that's a story for another thread.)

If you enjoy watching McDavid, cool. Soak it all in for however you choose to be a fan. But don't declare who or what others should follow. Each person can choose that for themselves.

This is a new one for me, how can you like a team but not the sport the team plays.

 

[Oddbob]

I can’t believe we still have dinosaurs that think McDavid isn’t fantastic, if not elite, defensively. And it’s not a new thing either.

HAHAHAHAHAHA ELITE defensively! WOW!

 

[HoweFan]

McDavid is a great player, no doubt, but I've also watched a lot of goals of his where, had he been playing on the same ice as Scott Stevens, Darian Hatcher, Chris Pronger, etc, he would have gotten his head knocked off.

I could make the opposite argument, that if Fedorov, Bure, or Jagr had been playing in today's game, where flying elbows and water-skiers weren't allowed, then they'd still be miles ahead in the goals/points race.

Grets didn’t have to worry about those boys cause there was an unwritten rule in the league not to hit him. Grets upped the salaries of every player in the nhl. Don’t hit him he’s making us money. McDavid doesn’t have that luxury. Don’t mind me though I have an unhealthy hatred of Gretzky at the moment

 

[Hazy Little Thing]

HAHAHAHAHAHA ELITE defensively! WOW!

When stats and pretty much everyone disagrees with you maybe it’s time for some introspection?

 

[Oddbob]

When stats and pretty much everyone disagrees with you maybe it’s time for some introspection?

Most agree with me about his defence. Watching him play and he is not even close to elite at anything called defence. Only by one or 2 non Oiler fans right in this thread have I ever heard about him being good at defence. Who are all these that disagree with me, that don't include Oiler fans?

 

[jkutswings]

This is a new one for me, how can you like a team but not the sport the team plays.

I didn't say that I don't like hockey. I said that I'm not a FAN (fanatic) of it. My interest and loyalty is confined within the scope of a single franchise, so I'm just concerned with the success of the Red Wings and what details impact that success.

So if Edmonton losing a specific game helps Detroit in the standings... cool. But how McDavid plays in said game... irrelevant.

I don't pay any attention to Grand Rapids based on interest in the Griffins themselves, just for how Red Wings prospects are coming along. How a former Red Wing does once he leaves the team doesn't really matter, unless it's in a game against Detroit. And so on.

Again, anybody else can do whatever they please. But even if I DID want to watch every last hockey game that I could, between work and having a wife and three kids and two dogs a bunch of other things in life that I consider more important than sports... It's simply not possible. So part of it is pragmatic, limiting the indulgence to what has a better chance of fitting in within life's priorities.

But whatever. I hope the Wings have a productive trade deadline and a great home stretch of the season.

 

[TCNorthstars]

This is a new one for me, how can you like a team but not the sport the team plays.

I like hockey, but I only tend to watch the Red Wings until the playoffs. The other games seem to not hold my attention.