24/25 Waivers/Rumors/TDL Thread.

[norrisnick]

That doesn’t mean they are equivalent. Hague is billed as smart. Chiarot was always billed as tuff n realgud. Never smart.

No claims of equivalence. Just that the same was said about Chiarot at one point.

 

[SirloinUB]

That doesn’t mean they are equivalent. Hague is billed as smart. Chiarot was always billed as tuff n realgud. Never smart.

Im not going to argue they're equivalent. Im not going to argue Chairot is better than Hague.

I will argue that if we had Hague and the team isn't solidly in the playoffs the fanbase would turn on Hague just as fast and be just as hard on him as they are with Chairot.

This fanbase has very little appreciation/tolerance for midlevel players

 

[19 for president]

Im not going to argue they're equivalent. Im not going to argue Chairot is better than Hague.

I will argue that if we had Hague and the team isn't solidly in the playoffs the fanbase would turn on Hague just as fast and be just as hard on him as they are with Chairot.

This fanbase has very little appreciation/tolerance for midlevel players

I agree with this to some extent. I think this fan base overvalues what certain positions do typically like #2 centers and #3 dmen. We had so much depth for so long that we had guys like Z, Yzerman, Kronwall, etc in those roles and we took that to be the norm for those positions which it is not.

With that said though, I think especially on D, this fan base has just gotten sick of players being put in a position way over their head and then under eval them. I'd argue Chia is a decent 4/5 but he should not be on a 1st pair. Petry is an ok 3rd pair guy but should never be higher than that. Because both are routinely put higher in the lineup people get annoyed and label them as scrubs. There is a big difference between them and say Holl who legit is a borderline NHL player. So if Hague got paired with Seider and looked over his head defensively, the fan base would definitely come down on him.

 

[Rzombo4 prez]

Im not going to argue they're equivalent. Im not going to argue Chairot is better than Hague.

I will argue that if we had Hague and the team isn't solidly in the playoffs the fanbase would turn on Hague just as fast and be just as hard on him as they are with Chairot.

This fanbase has very little appreciation/tolerance for midlevel players

100%. This fanbase romanticizes the average NHL player without question. Bottom six is pejorative term around here when literally, more than half of the forwards in the league are bottom six forwards. Wings fans also think you can just order good bottom six/bottom pair players off of the Wendy's dollar menu. We are an odd lot.

 

[better Red than Dead]

Im not going to argue they're equivalent. Im not going to argue Chairot is better than Hague.

I will argue that if we had Hague and the team isn't solidly in the playoffs the fanbase would turn on Hague just as fast and be just as hard on him as they are with Chairot.

This fanbase has very little appreciation/tolerance for midlevel players

Hague plays a hard nosed game and sticks up for his teammates, he’s difficult to play against. This was something the Wings thought they were getting in Chairot and haven’t.

 

[OldnotDeadWings]

This fanbase has very little appreciation/tolerance for midlevel players

That's how it is with all fanbases, heightened in our case by youngish fans suffering through a playoff drought after growing up when the team was being led by HOFers and winning Cups.

 

[Frk It]

No claims of equivalence. Just that the same was said about Chiarot at one point.

1) Chiarot gets more shit than he should (same thing with Compher/Copp)
2) I think we are at the point where we could use a younger/cheaper replacement for Chiarot. I am not sure Hague is or will be a ton better than Chiarot. I do think he might fit better with Seider though, and if the cost via trade is reasonable, than it is worth exploring.

 

[Winger98]

Hanifin and Pietrangelo eat up the big minutes. Hague is realgud. He’d be our 3rd best D now and is a legit #4 guy.

And Shea Theodore. Maybe Hague is better than how he's deployed, but I've seen Vegas repeatedly go out and bring in more guys for their blueline, and re-sign guys like McNabb, over giving Hague a larger role. That makes me a bit leery of dumping assets for him with the goal of pushing him into a top4 spot when a contending team clearly doesn't see him in that spot. Maybe if it's like a 3rd or something, but no serious assets.

If we want to re-work our blueline and want him as part of it, like on the third pair...yeah. But if we're looking to grab a guy to definitely plug into the top4 and eat 20+ minutes a night, I'd target a guy who has already shown the ability to do that.

 

[Reddwit]

1) Chiarot gets more shit than he should (same thing with Compher/Copp)
2) I think we are at the point where we could use a younger/cheaper replacement for Chiarot. I am not sure Hague is or will be a ton better than Chiarot. I do think he might fit better with Seider though, and if the cost via trade is reasonable, than it is worth exploring.

Copp and Compher absolutely do not get too much shit for the performances they’re giving us. I have time for Chiarot, he has good games here and there, but Copp and Compher? Hell no. They’ve been ass in like 95% of the games they’ve played. We didn’t give Copp $5.6M so he could struggle to break 30 points. Compher is on pace for 35, and I can’t think of a single good game he’s had this year. They are both bloated anchors whose lack of efficacy costs this team points almost nightly. Horrible players, horrible contracts.

 

[Reddwit]

And Shea Theodore. Maybe Hague is better than how he's deployed, but I've seen Vegas repeatedly go out and bring in more guys for their blueline, and re-sign guys like McNabb, over giving Hague a larger role. That makes me a bit leery of dumping assets for him with the goal of pushing him into a top4 spot when a contending team clearly doesn't see him in that spot. Maybe if it's like a 3rd or something, but no serious assets.

If we want to re-work our blueline and want him as part of it, like on the third pair...yeah. But if we're looking to grab a guy to definitely plug into the top4 and eat 20+ minutes a night, I'd target a guy who has already shown the ability to do that.

Spot on. And management has, of late, proven time and time again that they suck at identifying pro players who are in lesser roles here or elsewhere that have the potential to move up the lineup. They’ve signed a pack of players who were supposed to come to Detroit to play a role, only to prove they can’t hack it at said role. Even guys like Veleno and Ras were signed with the expectation they could grow into bigger roles and it’s been a disaster. I’m not sure I trust our pro scouts to properly identify underused diamonds in the rough playing elsewhere (or here) anymore.

 

[Coach Reggie Dunlop]

Hypothetical trade for my fellow wings fan, Larkin for Johnson, bichsel, and a 1st. Would you do this trade? I personally would.

Copp and Compher absolutely do not get too much shit for the performances they’re giving us. I have time for Chiarot, he has good games here and there, but Copp and Compher? Hell no. They’ve been ass in like 95% of the games they’ve played. We didn’t give Copp $5.6M so he could struggle to break 30 points. Compher is on pace for 35, and I can’t think of a single good game he’s had this year. They are both bloated anchors whose lack of efficacy costs this team points almost nightly. Horrible players, horrible contracts.

I hate copp but he’s easily better than compher this year. At least copp can play some sort of defense.

 

[Reddwit]

Hypothetical trade for my fellow wings fan, Larkin for Johnson, bichsel, and a 1st. Would you do this trade? I personally would.


I hate copp but he’s easily better than compher this year. At least copp can play some sort of defense.

Who cares if he’s better than Compher? Everyone’s better than Compher! The bar is in hell if that’s where you’re drawing the line. Like I said, the Wings didn’t give Copp 5.6M so he could put up 4C numbers. He ranks 127th in ppg among centers, and 108th in raw scoring among centers. Those are 4C numbers in todays NHL. He was signed to be a two-way player, remember? He gives us one-way hockey almost every game, if we’re lucky, and he isn’t even a standout there, a la Helm. Copp is basically a Nic Dowd level player, a guy who makes less than a quarter of what Copp makes. He deserves every bit of criticism thrown his way on this board.

 

[Coach Reggie Dunlop]

Who cares if he’s better than Compher? Everyone’s better than Compher! The bar is in hell if that’s where you’re drawing the line. Like I said, the Wings didn’t give Copp 5.6M so he could put up 4C numbers. He ranks 127th in ppg among centers, and 108th in raw scoring among centers. Those are 4C numbers in today’s NHL. He was signed to be a two-way player, remember? He gives us one-way hockey almost every game, if we’re lucky, and he isn’t even a standout there, a la Helm. Copp is basically a Nic Dowd level player, a guy who makes less than a quarter of what Copp makes. He deserves every bit of criticism thrown his way on this board.

I think they both are awful. I don’t think it matters which one is better than the other truthfully. I just see more use out of copp, albeit very little. Our pro scouting is terrible. We would be blessed to get out of their contracts.