24/25 Season - Red Wings Stats & Advanced Stats

cjm502

Holy Jumpin!
Jun 22, 2010
1,963
1,344
Mid Michigan
xGF%
Chiarot 36%
Compher 38%
Kane 41%
Gustafsson 42%
Copp 43%
Tarasenko 43%
Petry 43%
Holl 44%

Pretty much makes sense, the 2nd line and 2nd pair are sinking this team. Looks even worse if you look at HDCF%. Maybe we shouldn't look to UFAs to solve our problems...

Edit: The further you look at the advanced stats, the worse it looks for Chiarot
The previous two seasons Chiarot has had his moments as a somewhat steady guy can eat up decent minutes and is willing to clear the crease, but he has completely fallen off the rails this season. Numbers can sometimes be a little misleading, but not in this case.
 
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Oddbob

Registered User
Jan 21, 2016
16,888
11,464
The previous two seasons Chiarot has had his moments as a somewhat steady guy can eat up decent minutes and is willing to clear the crease, but he has completely fallen off the rails this season. Numbers can sometimes be a little misleading, but not in this case.

Chiarot was terrible his whole first season here. Passable last year and not as good this year.
 

raymond23

lgrw
Sponsor
Sep 28, 2017
7,246
7,873
Grand Rapids, MI
After a fat 11% xGF last night, Chiarot-Petry is now officially the single worst pairing in the league (min 60 minutes)

Last in CF% (37.29) and SF% (33.81)
2nd last in FF% (33.62)
3rd last in xGF% (37.86)

(Imagine if they didn't have a 94.5% save percentage from their goalies...)
 
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Frk It

Mo Seider Less Problems
Jul 27, 2010
36,959
15,910
The coaching staff had to see Ed and Seider being a pairing as decently likely.

If so how the hell do you think you can form a middle pair out of the rest of these guys?

Still annoyed at not addressing this in the off season.
 

Gniwder

IN TODD WE TRUST
Oct 12, 2009
15,439
8,562
Bellingham, WA
Wings are:
- 4th worst in goals per game
- 2nd worst shots per game
- 5th worst shats against per game (I accidentally misspelled this, but seems appropriate)
- 3rd worst PK%

7th best PP and Talbot are the only things keeping this team in the playoff hunt. Stats back the eye test, this team is really hard to watch.
 
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Oddbob

Registered User
Jan 21, 2016
16,888
11,464
Wings are:
- 4th worst in goals per game
- 2nd worst shots per game
- 5th worst shats against per game (I accidentally misspelled this, but seems appropriate)
- 3rd worst PK%

7th best PP and Talbot are the only things keeping this team in the playoff hunt. Stats back the eye test, this team is really hard to watch.

It is actually shats against, haha.
 
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JediOrderPizza

Registered User
Apr 15, 2012
7,185
9,562
Tampa, Fl
If you wanna feel a little worse about everything, go take a look at the advanced stats for Gostisbehere and Walman
No thanks. Ghost also plays the same role he had with us on Carolina so not shocked.

I just don't get this missing you old defenders thing that some have. Our defense was abysmal with those guys. The problem isn't sending those guys away, the issue is not upgrading when you did.
 
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RED WINGS STOMP

Registered User
Nov 28, 2022
1,323
1,771
Those two provided some decent secondary offense from the blue line last year.

Our blue line offense this year outside of Mo is pretty much non existent.
 

Holden Caufield

Registered User
Oct 9, 2020
1,620
2,252
Ontario
- 4th worst in goals per game
- 2nd worst shots per game
- 5th worst shats against per game (I accidentally misspelled this, but seems appropriate)
- 3rd worst PK%
7th best PP and Talbot are the only things keeping this team in the playoff hunt. Stats back the eye test, this team is really hard to watch.

giphy.gif
 
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Frk It

Mo Seider Less Problems
Jul 27, 2010
36,959
15,910
I think the problem is what our other options are.
I am crossing my fingers for a trade. I have heard Trouba's name pop up again, and that Rangers might be looking to move some people?

Here is to hoping.
 
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Winger98

Moderator
Feb 27, 2002
23,538
5,916
Cleveland
I am crossing my fingers for a trade. I have heard Trouba's name pop up again, and that Rangers might be looking to move some people?

Here is to hoping.

With Lalonde appearing safe, I have to think Yzerman will be dealing people at some point. Maybe not to "fix" this season, but to reset things a bit.
 

Frk It

Mo Seider Less Problems
Jul 27, 2010
36,959
15,910
With Lalonde appearing safe, I have to think Yzerman will be dealing people at some point. Maybe not to "fix" this season, but to reset things a bit.
I was just going to post that in the TDL thread, but yeah absolutely. We need to add a top 4 defenseman ASAP if we want this season to not be a wash. That middle pairing is just getting outplayed too badly. It sucks Petry could not have been more of the guy he was for Montreal a few years back, because that player was really good. But he looks really bad to me right now.

We need to add someone who can elevate one of those 2 guys to make that pairing functionable.
 
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Winger98

Moderator
Feb 27, 2002
23,538
5,916
Cleveland
I was just going to post that in the TDL thread, but yeah absolutely. We need to add a top 4 defenseman ASAP if we want this season to not be a wash. That middle pairing is just getting outplayed too badly. It sucks Petry could not have been more of the guy he was for Montreal a few years back, because that player was really good. But he looks really bad to me right now.

We need to add someone who can elevate one of those 2 guys to make that pairing functionable.

Petry aged like a dog over the summer, got seven years older and slower. Chiarot deserves some flak, but there's no one we can put with him who actually helps him.
 

Henkka

Registered User
Jan 31, 2004
32,429
13,484
Tampere, Finland
Petry aged like a dog over the summer, got seven years older and slower. Chiarot deserves some flak, but there's no one we can put with him who actually helps him.

They have looked well together with Holl.

It's just insanity, that why does the coaching staff not use them together, and shelter Johansson with Petry. Because Petry is still good at offensive end if he could maximize his ice-time from there.

Now it's Johansson-Holl starting from O.zone, and Holl does not belong there.

Chiarot - Holl from D.zone
Albert - Petry from O.Zone

Ed-Seider as hybrid, both zones.

It's already almost like that, but Petry and Holl are just on wrong roles.

This is a no-brainer for me. If they don't change that, they are tanking. Trying to lose on purpose.
 

Henkka

Registered User
Jan 31, 2004
32,429
13,484
Tampere, Finland
Okay, it's time to push this thread up.

4 games of Todd McLellan era, and what we are seeing in stats?

He has just made an incredible turnaround with this team. I was very sceptical to wait for anything significant change, you can't do much with the same player core.

But suddenly, Red Wings have started to control the games, just like that. They dominate the xGF% in "tied" situations. They are hunting for the leads and when they get the lead, they start playing more passive way, controlling the lead. They have been losing the leads, like against the Pens, but instantly, when the game is back tied, they start dominating and taking the lead again.

1735948082319.png


We have been the best team at NHL on last 4 games, on "tied" situations, with 77,8% xGF%. That's phenomenal number. GF% has been 78,7%, and best on last 4 games after Colorado. But nothing is luck-based, xGF% is even with GF%, so we got what we deserve.

I'm really stunned of this change. Those changes are kind of minimal, but the results have been huge. Everything is just clicking. And it's not any kind of fake statistics, like many team will have high expected goals numbers, when they are trailing, because the contenders act like that same way. They give up of that puck control on the lead.

We are now acting like a contender. We are aggressive, we are taking the leads, and then "resting" when we lead. And if we lose the lead, we go to agressive hunt for the lead mode again. And we get those leads. THIS IS THE CONTENDER WAY.

What comes to the roster, the biggest moves McLellan did was putting Veleno to the top line. And he clicks there. They are fast and aggressive with Larkin and Raymond. This did flow some talent (mostly DeBrincat) to lower lines, and I really liked the Copp-idea between Cat and Kane already at summer. Now they are there, and they are clicking. Thanks Todd, you did read my posts from here. :)

So there's no more that Lalonde-vision bulldozer-line (Ras - Copp - Fischer, which seemed to be Derek's biggest failure), and they are going more towards a deep Top9 offence, when all these moves will leave Berggren - Compher - Tarasenko to be the 3rd line. That's a damn good quality 3rd line for any team!

So we are more reminding of the deep offence corps from last season, just with some different players. Ras - Kasper - Motte is a fine 4th line.

Also, they did split Edvinsson and Seider on two pairs, and damn, two quality kids are now carrying 2 struggling vets to have 2 decent pairs. They can overload these pairs to shelter more the 3rd pair, and I think the combination of this is better as a whole. Edvinsson and Seider on different pairs will eat huge load of minutes and we can better pick the easy spots for our poor defencemen. And it just works.

So kind of minor changes, but still big effects. I somehow see, that this team is now more what Yzerman planned at summer, and McLellan is completing it. Lalonde shomehow lost his vision, doing tweak on totally wrong directions, or just couldn't change his vision to fit on these roster changes. I think he just fell off from his rails. Now we are more as "default setup" with this team, when McLellan was brought in.

Interesting to see, how long this will last but it's really really promising, based on stats. Jets on the next game is the best and hardest possible test. They are probbaly the best coached - all the time overachieving - team at NHL.

Can we outcoach them - is the big question.
 
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WF19

Registered User
Nov 18, 2009
1,365
1,063
Couple observations--

  • Kane might be toast? He has a career low 33.3 CF% 5 on 5 this year. We are also getting outshot badly at 5 on 5 when he is on the ice (80 shots against compared to 45 shots for). I think we should look at moving him at the deadline, I am guessing some teams will be interested.
  • Tarasenko is doing well, I would keep him on the 2nd line and try rotating different players with him.
  • 2nd pairing is getting chewed up. Chiarot and Petry pairing needs to die.
  • Johansson and Berggren are doing pretty well with the sheltered minutes they are getting, probably worth giving them a bump.
  • Fischer and Holl might deserve more of a shot?
Lol at first glance I thought it said Chiarot and Petey need to die. A little excessive but I still laughed out loud reading it.

Okay, it's time to push this thread up.

4 games of Todd McLellan era, and what we are seeing in stats?

He has just made an incredible turnaround with this team. I was very sceptical to wait for anything significant change, you can't do much with the same player core.

But suddenly, Red Wings have started to control the games, just like that. They dominate the xGF% in "tied" situations. They are hunting for the leads and when they get the lead, they start playing more passive way, controlling the lead. They have been losing the leads, like against the Pens, but instantly, when the game is back tied, they start dominating and taking the lead again.

View attachment 955634

We have been the best team at NHL on last 4 games, on "tied" situations, with 77,8% xGF%. That's phenomenal number. GF% has been 78,7%, and best on last 4 games after Colorado. But nothing is luck-based, xGF% is even with GF%, so we got what we deserve.

I'm really stunned of this change. Those changes are kind of minimal, but the results have been huge. Everything is just clicking. And it's not any kind of fake statistics, like many team will have high expected goals numbers, when they are trailing, because the contenders act like that same way. They give up of that puck control on the lead.

We are now acting like a contender. We are aggressive, we are taking the leads, and then "resting" when we lead. And if we lose the lead, we go to agressive hunt for the lead mode again. And we get those leads. THIS IS THE CONTENDER WAY.

What comes to the roster, the biggest moves McLellan did was putting Veleno to the top line. And he clicks there. They are fast and aggressive with Larkin and Raymond. This did flow some talent (mostly DeBrincat) to lower lines, and I really liked the Copp-idea between Cat and Kane already at summer. Now they are there, and they are clicking. Thanks Todd, you did read my posts from here. :)

So there's no more that Lalonde-vision bulldozer-line (Ras - Copp - Fischer, which seemed to be Derek's biggest failure), and they are going more towards a deep Top9 offence, when all these moves will leave Berggren - Compher - Tarasenko to be the 3rd line. That's a damn good quality 3rd line for any team!

So we are more reminding of the deep offence corps from last season, just with some different players. Ras - Kasper - Motte is a fine 4th line.

Also, they did split Edvinsson and Seider on two pairs, and damn, two quality kids are now carrying 2 struggling vets to have 2 decent pairs. They can overload these pairs to shelter more the 3rd pair, and I think the combination of this is better as a whole. Edvinsson and Seider on different pairs will eat huge load of minutes and we can better pick the easy spots for our poor defencemen. And it just works.

So kind of minor changes, but still big effects. I somehow see, that this team is now more what Yzerman planned at summer, and McLellan is completing it. Lalonde shomehow lost his vision, doing tweak on totally wrong directions, or just couldn't change his vision to fit on these roster changes. I think he just fell off from his rails. Now we are more as "default setup" with this team, when McLellan was brought in.

Interesting to see, how long this will last but it's really really promising, based on stats. Jets on the next game is the best and hardest possible test. They are probbaly the best coached - all the time overachieving - team at NHL.

Can we outcoach them - is the big question.
I was kinda meh with the Todd hiring and it's only been 4 games but the change has been nothing short of phenomenal.. Lalonde must feel like a huge pile right now 🤣
 

14ari13

Registered User
Oct 19, 2006
14,313
1,359
Norway
What's your stats say?

Mine says -4 in 4 games with 5 GA ES. Kasper has been the worst player since the coaching change and gets the least ice time.

Time to send him down. Play Fish, have Watson as the spare.
Fisher, Motte and Rasmussen can be a good energy line. Kasper can play 20 min for a week or 2 and then it can reevaluated.
 
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Henkka

Registered User
Jan 31, 2004
32,429
13,484
Tampere, Finland
What's your stats say?

Mine says -4 in 4 games with 5 GA ES. Kasper has been the worst player since the coaching change and gets the least ice time.

Time to send him down. Play Fish, have Watson as the spare.

I didn't even bother to look too much on the 4th line, because it has been used with so small ice-time. Or I just didn't look on player stats yet that much, the team overall data is more important.

What I think about Kasper, when he was sidelined for the flu(?) or something, he hasn't been good since that.

1735991568928.png


But yeah, now when looking on advanced stats, He has been definitely the worst forward since coaching change. Maybe they should just give him a break against the Jets, and put Fischer there.
 
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