Salary Cap: 24-25 Salary Thread Crosbicles Volume MXVI: Sad Penguins, no Ploffs, got tariffed instead

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If this is Dubas' method he needs to target players that have high upside.

There have been players available like Strome and Chychrun since Dubas has taken over and he's settled for familiar pieces.

Timmins, Novak, Tomasino. These are decent moves in the right direction. Building your depth out of young cast offs that can either play a part here or up value is essential.


Instead of the Kevin Hayes of the world he should be targeting useful utility guys he can flip. Mikheyev was someone I said we should have been all over last year. He put up 20 goals this year. Dubas did well with Cody Glass.

Continue those methods. Invest your 1sts and hope you hit some wins.
First of all, Strome was not available since Dubas has taken over. The Capitals signed him in 2022. Second of all, Chychrun wasn't a "buy low" option, he was a win-now acquisition. To get him we would have needed to give up Pettersson in return, the Sens were targeting Jensen to play with Chabot. Chychrun wasn't playing to his capability in Ottawa (although again I think he is another Capital who has gotten lucky as hell this year) but he was no reclamation project.

Dubas did what we wanted him to, which is degrade his lineup big-time while getting players on the periphery he can move for picks later on.
 
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I've been disappointed since Hextall didn't fire Sullivan after the Islanders or Rangers fiascos and Dubas nose dived the franchise's future in 2023.

Just kinda going with the flow at this point.
The Rangers were favored highly going into that series. They only won because we had a below average AHL goalie in net in Louis Domingue. Not sure how you ever blame that series on Sullys coaching.

I don't see how firing the coach would do anything in that scenario.

I'm not trying defend Sully, but I also don't get the point in letting him go now. Do you want to fire him so we are a better team next year? I thought everyone wanted us to tank? If you bring a new coach in, you are just setting him up for failure. At this point, you let Sully coach while trying rebuild or rebuild on the fly, if/when the roster is at a level that they SHOULD be competitive and they still aren't, then you make the coaching change.

Some of the takes on this board are just on repeat. Everyone just loves to play the hindsight game and say "see, that didn't work".
 
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First of all, Strome was not available since Dubas has taken over. The Capitals signed him in 2022. Second of all, Chychrun wasn't a "buy low" option, he was a win-now acquisition. To get him we would have needed to give up Pettersson in return, the Sens were targeting Jensen to play with Chabot. Chychrun wasn't playing to his capability in Ottawa (although again I think he is another Capital who has gotten lucky as hell this year) but he was no reclamation project.

Dubas did what we wanted him to, which is degrade his lineup big-time while getting players on the periphery he can move for picks later on. We literally got a draft pick with Hayes. Mikheyev cost a 2nd round pick and he's 30. I'd rather have Hayes and two 2nds than Mikheyev.

That's not my point. My point is there are players out there that we could've taken a flier on to get back to a status where we were a playoff team.

Instead, what we did was signed Lars Eller, Noel Acciari, Ryan Graves, Tristan Jarry and Matt Nieto.

The Chicago Blackhawks have acquired forwards Ilya Mikheyev and Sam Lafferty and a 2027 second-round pick from the Vancouver Canucks in exchange for a 2027 fourth-round pick.
 
My optimal offseason

- keep EK & Rakell
- keep Timmins
- rust for late 1st/early 2nd at draft
- buyout Jarry
- trade Ned
- sign 2 journeyman goalies
- sign 1-2 Beauvillier-esque FAs
- trade/let Tomasino walk. Trade 2nd-4th for similar but better player.

Then in season

- suck and trade more guys at TDL (FAs you got, Lizotte, Hayes, Heinen, Acciari, etc) and maybe Rakell
 
The Rangers were favored highly going into that series. They only won because we had a below average AHL goalie in net in Louis Domingue. Not sure how you ever blame that series on Sullys coaching.

I don't see how firing the coach would do anything in that scenario.

I'm not trying defend Sully, but I also don't get the point in letting him go now. Do you want to fire him so we are a better team next year? I thought everyone wanted us to tank? If you bring a new coach in, you are just setting him up for failure.

Some of the takes on this board are just on repeat.
I 100% agree with you on both points (blaming 2022 on Sullivan is beyond idiotic), but I think the answer to the bolded is mostly: the people on this board are sick of seeing Sullivan's face and hearing him talk when they watch Penguins games. Even if they think he's a crappy coach who makes the team worse, they've been furious at him since at least 2020 and it's been boiling for 5+ angry years.

I'm sure there are other points they'd make (wanting the kids to play more, not liking his influence on the organization, worry that he'll stick around after we have a better roster, etc.) but at its core I think people are just done with him and want him gone no matter what
 
The Rangers were favored highly going into that series. They only won because we had a below average AHL goalie in net in Louis Domingue. Not sure how you ever blame that series on Sullys coaching.

I don't see how firing the coach would do anything in that scenario.

I'm not trying defend Sully, but I also don't get the point in letting him go now. Do you want to fire him so we are a better team next year? I thought everyone wanted us to tank? If you bring a new coach in, you are just setting him up for failure.

Some of the takes on this board are just on repeat. Everyone just loves to play the hindsight game and say "see, that didn't work".

Refresh the organization.

I'm not playing the hindsight game. I hated Dubas' summer from day one.
 
My optimal offseason

- keep EK & Rakell
- keep Timmins
- rust for late 1st/early 2nd at draft
- buyout Jarry
- trade Ned
- sign 2 journeyman goalies

- sign 1-2 Beauvillier-esque FAs
- trade/let Tomasino walk. Trade 2nd-4th for similar but better player.

Then in season

- suck and trade more guys at TDL (FAs you got, Lizotte, Hayes, Heinen, Acciari, etc) and maybe Rakell

Don't see the purpose of a buyout.

I'd keep Jarry and Ned because you can probably get value for one of them with the way goalie contracts are going.

I'd definitely try to trade Jarry first this summer even if it involves us taking back a bad contract.
 
That's not my point. My point is there are players out there that we could've taken a flier on to get back to a status where we were a playoff team.

Instead, what we did was signed Lars Eller, Noel Acciari, Ryan Graves, Tristan Jarry and Matt Nieto.

The Chicago Blackhawks have acquired forwards Ilya Mikheyev and Sam Lafferty and a 2027 second-round pick from the Vancouver Canucks in exchange for a 2027 fourth-round pick.
I stand corrected on the Mikheyev trade.

Yeah, we all know the first Dubas offseason was shit. He by all indications knows it too. From what I've heard, he was basically running a skeleton crew front office and was told to push to make the playoffs. Fortunately, he has not followed that pattern since then and he's put together a functional front office.

The stuff that the Capitals have done is exactly what the Pens should have done when JR was fired. 87, 71, and 58 should be surrounded by contributors in their mid to late 20s right now. That didn't happen, so the new plan is evidently to suck for a few seasons and then maybe get Sid to the playoffs again at age 39 or 40.

As for Hayes versus Mikheyev... who really cares. Yeah Mikheyev is better. Terrific. We needed to plug a hole at bottom six centre, not top six wing. For what it's worth, if both players were traded right now it's no guarantee Mikheyev gets a better draft pick in return considering Hayes' reputation around the league and position.
 
Don't see the purpose of a buyout.

I'd keep Jarry and Ned because you can probably get value for one of them with the way goalie contracts are going.

I'd definitely try to trade Jarry first this summer even if it involves us taking back a bad contract.
That’s fine depending on the contract coming back. His buyout is pretty palatable though. After 3 years (term of his contract) it is 797k for 3 years.

I just want him out. It’s time. I don’t care about holding him and getting value. I think he’s a name that no one will ever really give up anything for even if he’s playing well (and as we’re seeing right now him playing well doesn’t really benefit us anyway).
 
The stuff that the Capitals have done is exactly what the Pens should have done when JR was fired. 87, 71, and 58 should be surrounded by contributors in their mid to late 20s right now. That didn't happen, so the new plan is evidently to suck for a few seasons and then maybe get Sid to the playoffs again at age 39 or 40.
I pounded the table for this direction back from ‘18-21. At some point it got too late though.
 
I stand corrected on the Mikheyev trade.

Yeah, we all know the first Dubas offseason was shit. He by all indications knows it too. From what I've heard, he was basically running a skeleton crew front office and was told to push to make the playoffs. Fortunately, he has not followed that pattern since then and he's put together a functional front office.

The stuff that the Capitals have done is exactly what the Pens should have done when JR was fired. 87, 71, and 58 should be surrounded by contributors in their mid to late 20s right now. That didn't happen, so the new plan is evidently to suck for a few seasons and then maybe get Sid to the playoffs again at age 39 or 40.

As for Hayes versus Mikheyev... who really cares. Yeah Mikheyev is better. Terrific. We needed to plug a hole at bottom six centre, not top six wing. For what it's worth, if both players were traded right now it's no guarantee Mikheyev gets a better draft pick in return considering Hayes' reputation around the league and position.

Hayes' reputation around the league has resulted in two teams effectively paying him to leave. And in what world did a team with Eller and Acciari need to plug a bottom six center hole?

But that is largely my issue with Dubas and the archetypes he's bringing in.

Capitals bring in players like Mangiapane, Edmundson, and Chychrun for low costs that may burn picks, but if the Caps were a bad team this year they would've had the flexbility to get back on that return.

We did that with Glass, but some of the free agent signings and stuff are just bizarre. Still shocked we got a 2nd for Beauvillier.
 
That’s fine depending on the contract coming back. His buyout is pretty palatable though. After 3 years (term of his contract) it is 797k for 3 years.

I just want him out. It’s time. I don’t care about holding him and getting value. I think he’s a name that no one will ever really give up anything for even if he’s playing well (and as we’re seeing right now him playing well doesn’t really benefit us anyway).

If we are trying to suck, I don't think there is a goalie I trust more at getting us to that goal available besides Georgiev.
 
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The Rangers were favored highly going into that series. They only won because we had a below average AHL goalie in net in Louis Domingue. Not sure how you ever blame that series on Sullys coaching.

I don't see how firing the coach would do anything in that scenario.

I'm not trying defend Sully, but I also don't get the point in letting him go now. Do you want to fire him so we are a better team next year? I thought everyone wanted us to tank? If you bring a new coach in, you are just setting him up for failure. At this point, you let Sully coach while trying rebuild or rebuild on the fly, if/when the roster is at a level that they SHOULD be competitive and they still aren't, then you make the coaching change.

Some of the takes on this board are just on repeat. Everyone just loves to play the hindsight game and say "see, that didn't work".
Sullivan is not the right man for developing the kids. He's become tired, satisfied and way too powerful in this organization.

The next coach doesn't need to be a winner anytime soon. It's not about that. He just has to slowly help repair this corrupted culture.
Accountability needs to come back. Hunger. Work ethic. The favouritism needs to stop.

This team has lost its standards. They're more focused on sucking off the vets and hanging around than pursuing Cups.
 
Refresh the organization.

I'm not playing the hindsight game. I hated Dubas' summer from day one.

Well, it's a great win-win situation for you. Either Dubas succeeds and you get to watch a great young Penguins team be competitive again or Dubas fails and you get to be right about him (which being right seems to be the more preferred for many regulars on this board).
 
Well, it's a great win-win situation for you. Either Dubas succeeds and you get to watch a great young Penguins team be competitive again or Dubas fails and you get to be right about him (which being right seems to be the more preferred for many regulars on this board).

I'm happy to admit if Dubas turns this thing around, I just think it's weird that people think we are in some better spot than we were two years ago.

If we did nothing in the summer of 22-23 we probably have accumulated more 1sts and are in a better position to rebuild by trading Mikael Granlund for an additional first on top of the Guentzel and MP28 returns, utilizing the EK65 1st on Sam Dickinson, Zeev Buium, or Luchanko, and having another top 10 1st this year.

Dubas hasn't really done much that deserves praise. And the fact he didn't move Rakell again makes me believe he's not as committed to failing completely for McKenna as people hope he is.

This summer is really the big proof in the pudding moment though. If Dubas continues to tear down the team and focus on getting a high 1st, I'll give him props.

I'll also give him props if he tries to make some shrewd deals with the prospects and picks he's assembled to add real young talent like JJ Peterka, Alexis Lafreniere or Matt Boldy for example.
 
Hayes' reputation around the league has resulted in two teams effectively paying him to leave. And in what world did a team with Eller and Acciari need to plug a bottom six center hole?

But that is largely my issue with Dubas and the archetypes he's bringing in.

Capitals bring in players like Mangiapane, Edmundson, and Chychrun for low costs that may burn picks, but if the Caps were a bad team this year they would've had the flexbility to get back on that return.

We did that with Glass, but some of the free agent signings and stuff are just bizarre. Still shocked we got a 2nd for Beauvillier.
We have to ice a team, and our 2024 free agents have allowed us to ice a crappy one and also get some picks. Why should we be spending picks on players that will hurt our draft position? The Capitals bring in those players because they are aggressively trying to make the playoffs, not to flip them again.

Grzelcyk, Beauvillier, Hayes etc. was an indication that we had spots to fill (because we didn't want to rush the kids) but did not want to actually fill them with players good enough to get us into no-man's land. Dubas wants to preserve our draft capital, not throw it around to get mid players that are useless to us.
 
We have to ice a team, and our 2024 free agents have allowed us to ice a crappy one and also get some picks. Why should we be spending picks on players that will hurt our draft position? The Capitals bring in those players because they are aggressively trying to make the playoffs, not to flip them again.

Grzelcyk, Beauvillier, Hayes etc. was an indication that we had spots to fill (because we didn't want to rush the kids) but did not want to actually fill them with players good enough to get us into no-man's land. Dubas wants to preserve our draft capital, not throw it around to get mid players that are useless to us.

I know we've talked about this before and I think we are both stubborn in our opinions and this summer is really the time when we will truly see whether or not this is where Dubas' mindset is.
 
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Ok, let's rebuild on the fly, like Washington. They had Protas and McMichael ready to go for this year, after 4 years of development. They handled 2C and 3C (when they chose). Who is gonna fill those roles for us?
Will Malkin will be a +40 Center with 65 non-PP points next year, at age 39? Cuz he got 34 this year.
Or maybe Novak will be our salvation?
Btw Protas and McMichael combined costed 500k less than Malkin this season, and have 122 points between them.

What is our answer to Dylan Strome, who had 81 points at a 5M price tag?
What about Chychrun at 4.6M, with 20g, 27a and a +20?

How are we off-loading Karlsson and Letang, and then replacing them with guys who actually defend?
That would seem to be a requirement, given the importance of the roles.
From everything Dubas has said, he doesn't seem to wanna move those guys at all.

Who is our .910+ goalie next year making less than 1M, like Logan Thompson? Lindgren also had a 1.1M AAV.

And when is Sullivan and Quinn leaving Pittsburgh?
Capitals aint not gonna make the conference finals. They're a paper tiger. Anyone throwing them kudos has no nuance or context in their respective evaluations. They're not winning a cup.
 
Capitals aint not gonna make the conference finals. They're a paper tiger. Anyone throwing them kudos has no nuance or context in their respective evaluations. They're not winning a cup.

Most teams aren’t winning a cup.

Just because the Penguins built two consecutive “dynasty” type rosters around generational talents does not mean it’ll happen again.

Especially with the way the dilution of talent is occurring in the league.

Look at Bedard.
 
Lol. We used to make jokes about rearranging deck chairs on the titanic, but, uh, guys... My socks are starting to get damp...
The media will tell you you're just too demanding, wanting dry socks.
The Rangers were favored highly going into that series. They only won because we had a below average AHL goalie in net in Louis Domingue. Not sure how you ever blame that series on Sullys coaching.

I don't see how firing the coach would do anything in that scenario.

I'm not trying defend Sully, but I also don't get the point in letting him go now. Do you want to fire him so we are a better team next year? I thought everyone wanted us to tank? If you bring a new coach in, you are just setting him up for failure. At this point, you let Sully coach while trying rebuild or rebuild on the fly, if/when the roster is at a level that they SHOULD be competitive and they still aren't, then you make the coaching change.

Some of the takes on this board are just on repeat. Everyone just loves to play the hindsight game and say "see, that didn't work".
This is a very well thought out response in regards to keeping Sullivan, while also not defending him.

As someone else said, he's just stale, reiterates the same stupid excuses, and is a coach I want nowhere near young players.

This is also a team that promised Crosby they would be competitive again while he was still on the roster, and keeping Sullivan is the antithesis of that promise. Sid probably wants to keep Sullivan, and if that's the case, he better accept that he played his final playoff game in a Penguins uniform that game seven night at Madison Square Garden.
 
Tbh David Carle and FSG = match made in heaven

He is the Dubas, Beane, Theo Epstein of coaching candidates. Maybe we luck out.

If we are trying to suck, I don't think there is a goalie I trust more at getting us to that goal available besides Georgiev.
Yeah maybe true. But I mean he’s been an All Star lmao
 
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