Salary Cap: 24-25 Salary Thread Crosbicles Volume MXVI: Sad Penguins, no Ploffs, got tariffed instead

Status
Not open for further replies.
Tbh, regarding Tomasino, I think the guy's just kind of a whatever nobody. He might be a more offensive-minded 3rd liner, but I think that's about all he's ever gonna be. And we all know how this team deploys their bottom 6 like they have two 4th lines, Tomasino probably has no real spot/use.

He seems like a solid complimentary piece. Better than bottom 6 fillers but worse than your standard top 6 staple pieces.

If you had a third line worth something like on many previous cup teams, he's a guy that probably stands out on the broadcasts as a big time piece or something. On a team like the Pens I think he stands out for the wrong reasons -> there's just a huge hole regarding offensive talent.
 
Tbh, regarding Tomasino, I think the guy's just kind of a whatever nobody. He might be a more offensive-minded 3rd liner, but I think that's about all he's ever gonna be. And we all know how this team deploys their bottom 6 like they have two 4th lines, Tomasino probably has no real spot/use.
The team called him an untouchable earlier this year.... And when I reacted incredulously to such a statement I was flamed hard lol.
 
  • Haha
Reactions: Big Friggin Dummy
The Penguins have been using their 3rd line in much more of a 2-way role this year, Tomasino has one of the highest offensive zone start% on the team. I don't see any issue with his role on the 3rd line or what he is/projects to be.
 
  • Like
Reactions: OtherThingsILike
As a bottom 6 player I have no issues with Heinen, he has played solid in that role everywhere. It's the same issue with him that affects every player on this roster past and present. Coaching.

There's no hope of this team being competitive when it counts unless there's wholesale changes from head coach down to goalie coach. Every aspect of this team suffers from low level coaching effort, ability, preparation, and system.

Anyways, whatever, if that doesn't change, the Karlsson trade, Rakell trade doesn't matter. We are seeing what happens when this moron gets the younger players up... McGroarty is hurt, Pono and Bemstrom get shit minutes, and WBS is going to get wrecked in the playoffs due to shit for brains ruining their progress. Good job team!!!
Well said. Production-wise, Heinen is one of the best bang for buck/minutes Penguins since 2021-22.
Not re-signing him in summer of '23 was stupid. 17g-19a in Boston the following season at 775K.

I think he's hated here for his mannerisms or body language or something. Idk, it's weird.
Well, we replaced him with the Harkins, Nieto, Acciari types, so I hope the board enjoyed the ride.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Duffy13
The Penguins have been using their 3rd line in much more of a 2-way role this year, Tomasino has one of the highest offensive zone start% on the team. I don't see any issue with his role on the 3rd line or what he is/projects to be.

Yeah I don't think anyone cares if he were used in some trade - nor if he's here next year.

Frankly I don't know how much conversation he merits.

Roster is so full of holes that while I'd love to address bottom 6 offense, it's going to need to be part of a bigger plan and somewhat prioritized beneath top 6 offense, decent defenders, goaltending, and coaching lol.

If we just continue with 'the plan(?)' next year then flip him at the deadline for a 2nd because any player is completely pointless at that mark. I said we'd be a 35 win team at best last Summer. If we stay the course into next year I'll put money that we don't break 31 wins.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Jag68Sid87
I mean teams give opportunities to players all the time…like McMichael and Protas getting top six minutes on the Caps and producing 60+ points…some times you just gotta give young players a significant opportunity to contribute…won’t happen with top 2-3 coach here
 
  • Like
Reactions: Jag68Sid87
I mean teams give opportunities to players all the time…like McMichael and Protas getting top six minutes on the Caps and producing 60+ points…some times you just gotta give young players a significant opportunity to contribute…won’t happen with top 2-3 coach here

And then when Sullivan does that with McGroarty and Koivunen, you will complain that they're not trying to intentionally lose games to help their draft pick at the end of the year.
 
  • Like
Reactions: JackFr
I would not jump to the conclusion that just because we didn't move Rakell at the deadline that means we won't move him. Is it not abundantly possible that Dubas and co. put him out there, weren't blown away by the offers (or wanted to move him to CAR but the phone got tied up), and decided that the market for him might actually improve in the offseason?

The NHL is about to experience a bonkers summer of spending. The cap is exploding and in three years $8M is going to be the equivalent of about $6M in 2024-25. The Ryan Donatos of the world are going to get $5M+, the Boesers are going to be looking at $7-9M. Meanwhile we can offer a legit player in Rakell locked up for two more years at $5M. The market could be larger (in terms of more teams), teams will have more cap space, and the player could look even more enticing in comparison to other wing options.

Maybe that turns out to be a miscalculation and they can't get as much as they could have at the deadline. But I don't think we can assume it was now or never, especially if they feel they can get away with Groartsy and Koivunen in the top six keeping Sid happy.
 
And then when Sullivan does that with McGroarty and Koivunen, you will complain that they're not trying to intentionally lose games to help their draft pick at the end of the year.

Nope. Glad they’re there. They’re not preventing the tank. Jarry, Sid and Rust are lol
 
Yeah, I'm less worried that the Pens can trade Rust and/or Rakell for value. I do think it was a pretty big f*** up to not take advantage of Rakell's value and the market at the TDL, but I think they can still recoup significant asset(s).

My issue is that I think this team's just too f***ing stupid and proud to do the work of stripping away value to build future assets and make this team as bad as it can be for a few years as they build through the draft.

I know Dubas isn't exactly JR when it comes to being transparent with the media in pressers, but I lean toward believing him when he speaks about Rust and Rakell as key guys moving forward, and I just simply cannot agree. It's asinine imo.
 
Their presence has sparked the team though, but that's on Dubas for calling them up in garbage time.
It’s almost like mixing in youth should be a necessary requirement to keeping a team hungry, help prevent aging out or getting stale like most of us were saying 5 years ago.

Too little too late now other than to mess up draft position and stay mediocre.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Andy99 and Ryder71
I strongly disagree, here's why. If we get a good player through this draft the vast majority of his time here Sullivan won't be his coach. Sullivan being here next year won't hurt us in that regard.

PPL need to understand that the core is tethered to Sullivan. So, Crosby is as big a reason as to why Sullivan is still here as much as anyone. The core has blood on their hands also. And it's stifling this team in taking a decisive step forward.

Almost like a politician who doesn't want to give up power. They need to move over or just f***in leave!

It amazes me how Sullivan is the only villain in many posters eyes. They can't criticize Crosby or the core even though they're enabling it!
It is my turn to strongly disagree, but hey, that is perfectly OK!

Has ANYBODY ever asked Crosby, Malkin, Rust, Rakell, Letang and Karlsson whether a coaching change would be a complete non-starter for them? And if the answer is a collective yes, then isn't that what YOU (Ryder71) want? You want scorched earth, it ain't happening so long as these guys are the core of this team.

In fact, you REALLY should not want a coaching change. Because a coaching change can do for this squad what Spencer Carberry did for Washington. Yeah yeah, they have more top-end prospects, they have a much better goaltending tandem, etc. etc. Give Dubas the OPPORTUNITY to hire someone else and construct a team as he sees fit, and the results could be very interesting. OR, give Dubas the opportunity to completely rebuild this team as you (Ryder71) want, without a coach who believes Mike Sullivan-types are better for a retool than legitimate prospects, and who knows what can happen.

Sure, let's criticize Crosby for having one of the best seasons ever by a 37-year-old player. Come on, dude.

I honestly cannot tell you whether Dubas is a hero or a villain. Because I still don't believe he is driving this bus. I don't think Dubas acquired Connor Timmins to serve as a LEFT defenseman; I don't think he acquired Conor Dewar because he sees top-six winger upside!; I don't think he acquired Philip Tomasino because he thinks Tomasino is perfect fourth-line winger material; and I don't think he hung onto Rickard Rakell at the trade deadline because he thought it would be a great idea to move him from first-line LW to second-line RW. And I am pretty sure he did not trade for Erik Karlsson because of his SIXTY-point potential, but rather his point-per-game potential. AND, I am pretty sure Dubas hired David Quinn (allegedly) to get the most out of Karlsson, not to bottom out defensively!

But the players enabling seems like a reach to me. Maybe at some point in the past, they were not prepared to move on from Sullivan and were vocal about it. What can ANY of the core players say now, after three consecutive non-playoff appearances and one playoff series win since 2017? EIGHT years is a long long time. How many teams have rebuilt/retooled/remade themselves during these 8 precious years? The Canadiens were in the Stanley Cup finals in 2021 (yeah yeah, it was not a real final blah blah blah. Everybody played by the same rules, though). Four years later, they are on the verge of a playoff spot. I'd argue they are favorites to win the Atlantic Division next regular season. We have already discussed ad nauseum what the Capitals have done. Alex Ovechkin must be SO MUCH smarter than our core guys, because he did not seem to have a MAJOR issue with Peter Laviolette being fired and a raw rookie coming in.

If we continue to lay blame everywhere other than the man behind the bench, then he will NEVER leave. So you're great rebuilding plan (Ryder71) will all be for naught because Sullivan will still be here. Why would they fire him after the core is gone? Not like there is anything to save at that point. Might as well stink for a decade. As long as Liverpool and the Red Sox make FSG money, they won't care.

So no, I completely disagree that this is shared blame. This is about one guy overstaying his welcome in a job that he should have been fired from at least 5 years ago.
 
It’s almost like mixing in youth should be a necessary requirement to keeping a team hungry, help prevent aging out or getting stale like most of us were saying 5 years ago.

Too little too late now other than to mess up draft position and stay mediocre.
100%! The timing and the situational awareness are the issues for me.
 
It is my turn to strongly disagree, but hey, that is perfectly OK!

Has ANYBODY ever asked Crosby, Malkin, Rust, Rakell, Letang and Karlsson whether a coaching change would be a complete non-starter for them? And if the answer is a collective yes, then isn't that what YOU (Ryder71) want? You want scorched earth, it ain't happening so long as these guys are the core of this team.

In fact, you REALLY should not want a coaching change. Because a coaching change can do for this squad what Spencer Carberry did for Washington. Yeah yeah, they have more top-end prospects, they have a much better goaltending tandem, etc. etc. Give Dubas the OPPORTUNITY to hire someone else and construct a team as he sees fit, and the results could be very interesting. OR, give Dubas the opportunity to completely rebuild this team as you (Ryder71) want, without a coach who believes Mike Sullivan-types are better for a retool than legitimate prospects, and who knows what can happen.

Sure, let's criticize Crosby for having one of the best seasons ever by a 37-year-old player. Come on, dude.

I honestly cannot tell you whether Dubas is a hero or a villain. Because I still don't believe he is driving this bus. I don't think Dubas acquired Connor Timmins to serve as a LEFT defenseman; I don't think he acquired Conor Dewar because he sees top-six winger upside!; I don't think he acquired Philip Tomasino because he thinks Tomasino is perfect fourth-line winger material; and I don't think he hung onto Rickard Rakell at the trade deadline because he thought it would be a great idea to move him from first-line LW to second-line RW. And I am pretty sure he did not trade for Erik Karlsson because of his SIXTY-point potential, but rather his point-per-game potential. AND, I am pretty sure Dubas hired David Quinn (allegedly) to get the most out of Karlsson, not to bottom out defensively!

But the players enabling seems like a reach to me. Maybe at some point in the past, they were not prepared to move on from Sullivan and were vocal about it. What can ANY of the core players say now, after three consecutive non-playoff appearances and one playoff series win since 2017? EIGHT years is a long long time. How many teams have rebuilt/retooled/remade themselves during these 8 precious years? The Canadiens were in the Stanley Cup finals in 2021 (yeah yeah, it was not a real final blah blah blah. Everybody played by the same rules, though). Four years later, they are on the verge of a playoff spot. I'd argue they are favorites to win the Atlantic Division next regular season. We have already discussed ad nauseum what the Capitals have done. Alex Ovechkin must be SO MUCH smarter than our core guys, because he did not seem to have a MAJOR issue with Peter Laviolette being fired and a raw rookie coming in.

If we continue to lay blame everywhere other than the man behind the bench, then he will NEVER leave. So you're great rebuilding plan (Ryder71) will all be for naught because Sullivan will still be here. Why would they fire him after the core is gone? Not like there is anything to save at that point. Might as well stink for a decade. As long as Liverpool and the Red Sox make FSG money, they won't care.

So no, I completely disagree that this is shared blame. This is about one guy overstaying his welcome in a job that he should have been fired from at least 5 years ago.
Of course you don't want to blame the players, I'm sure you're rooting for them game in and game out.

But look at it this way. What are the constants regarding this team over the last seven years? The coach, Rust and the Core. Is that opinion OR is it fact?

You don't want to point fingers at the core because it interferes with your fandom. But to not recognize this core has A big PART IN Sullivan being here is manically naive or extremely shortsighted.

If you don't think star athletes have a say in such matters you're just burying your head in the sand.

To be clear Sullivan undoubtedly is a big problem. But if the core didn't want him here this matter would've been resolved years ago. ALL are to blame.
 
Last edited:
Responsibility for this team sucking:
Coaching — 35%
Goaltending — 35%
Defensive player make up and scheme— 20%
Forward age/skill — 10%

I give Dubas 20%of that and Sullivan 45% given responsibility for scheme and player selection, if not more…in other words, firing the coach and getting better goaltending will get this team to playoffs even if they do little with the roster besides bringing up a few prospects
 
Responsibility for this team sucking:
Coaching — 35%
Goaltending — 35%
Defensive player make up and scheme— 20%
Forward age/skill — 10%

I give Dubas 20%of that and Sullivan 45% given responsibility for scheme and player selection, if not more…in other words, firing the coach and getting better goaltending will get this team to playoffs even if they do little with the roster besides bringing up a few prospects
I fail to see the core listed. Are you seriously absolving the dinosaurs for holding the team back? Seriously? As if they had no hand in the coach being here?
 
Yeah, I'm less worried that the Pens can trade Rust and/or Rakell for value. I do think it was a pretty big f*** up to not take advantage of Rakell's value and the market at the TDL, but I think they can still recoup significant asset(s).

My issue is that I think this team's just too f***ing stupid and proud to do the work of stripping away value to build future assets and make this team as bad as it can be for a few years as they build through the draft.

I know Dubas isn't exactly JR when it comes to being transparent with the media in pressers, but I lean toward believing him when he speaks about Rust and Rakell as key guys moving forward, and I just simply cannot agree. It's asinine imo.
I can actually see Dubas' angle of not trading him this deadline unless for a massive overpayment.
Next deadline/off-season there's one less year on his contract and the cap is rising again the following year. And the next draft is supposedly a lot more stronger with higher end talent. Of course you run the risk of injury to him or Sid if you hold Rakell into the regular season.
Hopefully things play out in Dubas' favor.
 
I can actually see Dubas' angle of not trading him this deadline unless for a massive overpayment.
Next deadline/off-season there's one less year on his contract and the cap is rising again the following year. And the next draft is supposedly a lot more stronger with higher end talent. Of course you run the risk of injury to him or Sid if you hold Rakell into the regular season.
Hopefully things play out in Dubas' favor.
Rakell will also be 33 next year, could get injured and no guarantee he'll duplicate the career year he had. No, it was a mistake. He should have been moved and keeping him will cost us in our draft positioning this year.
 
Im not sure how you twist failing to deal Rak was anything less than a big f*** up.

I cant wait til Dubas is defended because of hindsight
 
I fail to see the core listed. Are you seriously absolving the dinosaurs for holding the team back? Seriously? As if they had no hand in the coach being here?

I put age down and mix on defense…that would apply, but I hold them a lot less responsible than Sullivan, Jarry and even Dubas
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Users who are viewing this thread

Ad

Ad