Salary Cap: 24-25 Salary Thread Crosbicles Volume MXVI: Sad Penguins, no Ploffs, got tariffed instead

[Gurglesons]

But those aren't legitimate answers. Rakell is barely a year younger (both May birthdays, one in 1992 and one in 1993) and has minimal trade protections. That's not a reason to trade Rust over Rakell.

Trading Rust for a 2nd and a mid prospect sucks because you can keep Rust and trade Rakell for more than that. Trading Rust for that while keeping Rakell makes no sense at all.

I’d rather move Rust over Rakell. We have more Rust’s on this team than we do Rakell’s in terms of skill sets.

 

[BusinessGoose]

I also feel if anyone is going to fall off from whatever their game is, it'll be Rust. That alone should have us moving him to someone who thinks he's the one piece their missing.

Edit: to clarify, i hate rust for no reason as he's been one of our only effective players... And I'm not sure we'll be better immediately with whatever player/pick it returns, which is a problem if we're trying to compete next couple years.

I just want him moved while we can. It's a Hornqvist situation.

And... Are we really going to be any better with him here vs resetting the age clock with a pick/different player?

Edit2: yes I know we are never getting rid of this blue collar third liner, UNLESS Sullivan is gone.. Which... He also won't be. Pittsburgh Sports (TM) sucks. Too bad the uniforms are so good.

 

[CheckingLineCenter]

I just want him moved while we can. It's a Hornqvist situation.

it’s really not tbh

Horny made 5.3M in a 81.5mm cap league- on a team that wanted to contend. Every cap hit mattered.

Rust will make 5.125M in a 95.5M cap league next season - on a rebuilding team that isn’t as sensitive to the cap

Rust also way better at this point vs Horny at that time

I hope they move Rust but don’t think he and Horny are comparable situations

 

[Jared Grayden]

Unless Dubas intends to be competitive in this upcoming season, both Rust and Rakell should be gone. And this doesn't look like a competitive team to me. At their ages, now is the time to sell high. This team is going nowhere regardless and both should easily get back a 1st with their contract value alone. Might require taking back offsetting bad cap hit but that should happen regardless.

 

[CheckingLineCenter]

Unless Dubas intends to be competitive in this upcoming season, both Rust and Rakell should be gone. And this doesn't look like a competitive team to me. At their ages, now is the time to sell high. This team is going nowhere regardless and both should easily get back a 1st with their contract value alone.

Im comfortable riding out Rakell longer. He should be moved by the 2028 TDL though. Would hold out for a monster return.

Rust I’d move asap. I would not hold out for a big return.

 

[Gurglesons]

it’s really not tbh

Horny made 5.3M in a 81.5mm cap league- on a team that wanted to contend. Every cap hit mattered.

Rust will make 5.125M in a 95.5M cap league next season - on a rebuilding team that isn’t as sensitive to the cap

Rust also way better at this point vs Horny at that time

I hope they move Rust but don’t think he and Horny are comparable situations

The comparable is the play style and history of injury.

 

[SEALBound]

Not that these point mean much to me but the organization likes Rust. They like his play, they like whatever leadership he brings, they like his performance, he's Sid's buddy....this is a guy they want around to "teach the next group". This isn't a name on the roster. There's more invested into Rust.

They just have so little incentive to move him, regardless of value.

 

[CheckingLineCenter]

The comparable is the play style and history of injury.

They don’t play similarly. Sure on injuries.

I would move Rust the moment his clause falls off for like a 2nd and 4th. But I do not see it similarly to Horny.

 

[Darren McCord]

it’s really not tbh

Horny made 5.3M in a 81.5mm cap league- on a team that wanted to contend. Every cap hit mattered.

Rust will make 5.125M in a 95.5M cap league next season - on a rebuilding team that isn’t as sensitive to the cap

Rust also way better at this point vs Horny at that time

I hope they move Rust but don’t think he and Horny are comparable situations

Horny was also in a flat cap. The cap is exploding a 35 year old Rust at 5 mill will be the going rate for a third liner. Rust will be easy to move whenever they want to honestly.

 

[BusinessGoose]

it’s really not tbh

Horny made 5.3M in a 81.5mm cap league- on a team that wanted to contend. Every cap hit mattered.

Rust will make 5.125M in a 95.5M cap league next season - on a rebuilding team that isn’t as sensitive to the cap

Rust also way better at this point vs Horny at that time

I hope they move Rust but don’t think he and Horny are comparable situations

Well...

The comparable is the play style and history of injury.

This kinda. What I'm saying is, Rust is not at the end of his effective window. It's trading someone before they're a net negative. That's what I mean.

Horny did pretty good for like two more years in FLA and holy shit did our loser marshmallow team need his presence still.. But by the end FLA was not getting results.

Im not really concerned about the money that rust costs or how valuable he is on it.

 

[pistolpete11]

Removing names and preconceived biases, I don't see the big difference between Rakell and Rust TBH

Sure, I prefer Rakell, but Rust also PKs and has Cup experience. NHL GMs eat that shit up. I think their returns would be pretty similar.

I think not pulling the trigger on Rakell this deadline was a big mistake, but I'd still move either or both if they bring back an equivalent of a 1st.

 

[CheckingLineCenter]

Well...

This kinda. What I'm saying is, Rust is not at the end of his effective window. It's trading someone before they're a net negative. That's what I mean.

Horny did pretty good for like two more years in FLA and holy shit did our loser marshmallow team need his presence still.. But by the end FLA was not getting results.

Im not really concerned about the money that rust costs or how valuable he is on it.

Yeah I can understand that if you’re saying BEFORE the fall off

I would just move him because he is the only guy left that both

a) I don’t think would be a huge benefit to other prospects graduating to play with. He is not as good of a play driver like EK/Rakell

b) would get ok value in a trade

c) has truly maximized his ability here and I question his ability if he’s not used specifically like we do. Ex: Rakell I am much more confident about being able to shift around the lineup and still be a net positive and score.

I think Rust is a solid player- I just think we are past the point of needing solid complimentary players who get favorable usage if they can get solid returns in a trade.

I do not think they should move EK for the sake of moving him. And I understand holding out for a big return with Rakell.

 

[Empoleon8771]

Removing names and preconceived biases, I don't see the big difference between Rakell and Rust TBH

Sure, I prefer Rakell, but Rust also PKs and has Cup experience. NHL GMs eat that shit up. I think their returns would be pretty similar.

I think not pulling the trigger on Rakell this deadline was a big mistake, but I'd still move either or both if they bring back an equivalent of a 1st.

If that's the case then I have no issues trading Rust either. I just think they should demand a 1st for all of Rakell, Karlsson and Rust and not just send any of them out for the sake of sending them out.

 

[Zirakzigil]

Unless Dubas intends to be competitive in this upcoming season, both Rust and Rakell should be gone. And this doesn't look like a competitive team to me. At their ages, now is the time to sell high. This team is going nowhere regardless and both should easily get back a 1st with their contract value alone. Might require taking back offsetting bad cap hit but that should happen regardless.

Hes already said that


Trade Rust for an upgrade on defense. No cap dumps unless its a defenseman a team needs to move and is still a bonafede top 4 guy.

 

[pistolpete11]

If that's the case then I have no issues trading Rust either. I just think they should demand a 1st for all of Rakell, Karlsson and Rust and not just send any of them out for the sake of sending them out.

I'd take less if it meant they were signing Marner or something.

McGroarty - Crosby - Marner
Koivunen - Malkin - Rakell/Rust

...would be fun and potentially good.

In general, though, I agree.

 

[KrisLetAngry]

I feel like Dubas is 100% planning to offer sheet someone this summer, probably Knies because he drafted him. Which would require offering up our 26 1st.

It would have to be our 2026 1st which could be very valuable.

I don't see it as very likely that the Penguins use any of their 1sts to add win now help, especially their own 1st. I can see offersheets being in play, but they'd more likely be the kind of offersheets St. Louis did last year with using 2nds and 3rds to get players.

The only way I can realistically see them moving a 1st is if they trade Rakell or Karlsson for a 1st and then flip that 1st for a center. Otherwise I'm not expecting any sort of major moves like that.

Agreed any offer sheets I can see using a 2nd up to 4.6 million.


--

Here is the thing you don't offer sheet on day one. If we get Marner or Ehlers or a top 4 LD with Karlsson.

I can see potential for Knies. Knies for a 1st and 3rd. He looks like a gamer on Toronto. You only do the OS if we actually have the other pieces we need.

 

[Gurglesons]

Spending a 1st on Matthews Knies on a huge contract would set this team back literal years.

 

[Jared Grayden]

Hes already said that


Trade Rust for an upgrade on defense. No cap dumps unless its a defenseman a team needs to move and is still a bonafede top 4 guy.

Dubas said lots of things that didn't materialize though. Not even suggesting that he is lying, but circumstances change. He said Crosby is a bad bet to miss the playoffs and that's 0/2 now. He said he'll never get a top 5 pick with Crosby and that might not be true. He said Schenn was expected to stay with the team and ended up flipping him immediately once Schenn asked for it.

 

[Zirakzigil]

Dubas said lots of things that didn't materialize though. Not even suggesting that he is lying, but circumstances change. He said Crosby is a bad bet to miss the playoffs and that's 0/2 now. He said he'll never get a top 5 pick with Crosby and that might not be true. He said Schenn was expected to stay with the team and ended up flipping him immediately once Schenn asked for it.

Schenn didnt ask. Dubas and him talked and Schenn was fine with the plan. Then teams freaked out that Schenn was off the table and upped their offer. Thats what changed things. This was discussed yesterday.

 

[Ryder71]

You know, all these different formulas in trying to improve the team are interesting. But if say we lose three of the next four (which with this schedule) doesn't seem likely, but that would be the best way to help this team for potentially the next 10-15 years! And, it's a hell of a lot easier to get a very good piece in that manner, then some of the gymnastics and manipulative tactics some of you are coming up with. All they have to do is lose now! And we're very likely to get a difference maker this draft. It's that simple. Don't overthink it.

Just lose now!

 

[Jared Grayden]

Schenn didnt ask. Dubas and him talked and Schenn was fine with the plan. Then teams freaked out that Schenn was off the table and upped their offer. Thats what changed things. This was discussed yesterday.

The point is Dubas says lots of things that doesn't transpire. So him saying they want to compete next season doesn't mean they will. They could be dead last next year.

 

[Rave7215]

McGroarty-Crosby-Rust
Rakell-Malkin-Koivunen
Iafallo-Novak-Tomasino
Hallander-Lizotte-Dewar
Heinen-Ponomarev

Hague-Karlsson
Dumoulin-Timmins
Pickering-Letang
Shea

Jarry-Blomqvist

Unless you can make a good deal with trading Rakell and bringing in a younger player, this is generally what I'd be targeting. Ship out Graves, Acciari, Hayes and Nedjelkovic in the off-season and plan on selling guys like Rakell, Karlsson, Iaffalo and Timmins in the season.



He has had this exact kind of year in 3 of the last 4 seasons.



The 2nd rounder you'd bring back for him isn't worth trading him at all.

Want to sell someone? Sell Rakell, because he'll actually have 1st+ value.

Knowing Sullivan, If we resigned Dumo, he is 100% being paired with Letang again.

 

[cygnus47]

If the plan was to compete asap, why wouldn’t we have just used free agency and traded our 1sts for good players and kept Guentzel? I don’t see what the big brain plan is if we’re willing to risk it all on future UFAs being available or throw away high picks now. Why spend 2 years pulling the team apart just to risk free agency or offer sheets which might not be available? Why not do it 2 years ago? We’re way further away from having a competitive team now than we were then.

I find it hard to believe that Dubas didn’t have at least a general idea of what he was trying to do the last few years, and I can’t imagine letting all our stars get so old they drop off before we try to get quality players in free agency was a necessary part of the plan.

 

[Ryder71]

Dubas said lots of things that didn't materialize though. Not even suggesting that he is lying, but circumstances change. He said Crosby is a bad bet to miss the playoffs and that's 0/2 now. He said he'll never get a top 5 pick with Crosby and that might not be true. He said Schenn was expected to stay with the team and ended up flipping him immediately once Schenn asked for it.

Unless we get Marner or some such player we're not winning anything anytime soon. I agree with your premise.

The Re-tool, that some here believe in is a fable. You simply are not gonna get better if your top two players are 38 and 39 years old next year, again UNLESS you go hog wild in free agency. I seriously doubt KD does that.

We're missing the playoffs three straight years. Yes you can improve the defense a little, and yes maybe goaltending. But not enough to close the gap on younger up and coming teams.

Sid, Geno, Letang, Rakell and Rust are all getting older and through next year we're keeping the coach., It's over for them. And unless they get a difference maker or two to suit up next year, We'll enjoy the SAME exact fate next season as this season and probably finish even lower.

That's why we need to be heavily focused on accruing assets and drafting and developing effectively. That's all that matters at this point.

 

[Gurglesons]

If the plan was to compete asap, why wouldn’t we have just used free agency and traded our 1sts for good players and kept Guentzel? I don’t see what the big brain plan is if we’re willing to risk it all on future UFAs being available or throw away high picks now. Why spend 2 years pulling the team apart just to risk free agency or offer sheets which might not be available? Why not do it 2 years ago? We’re way further away from having a competitive team now than we were then.

I find it hard to believe that Dubas didn’t have at least a general idea of what he was trying to do the last few years, and I can’t imagine letting all our stars get so old they drop off before we try to get quality players in free agency was a necessary part of the plan.

Because they've amassed a bunch of picks and have some prospects coming through now versus having a bunch of 1sts and 2nds missing and our best prospect in the A being Poulin or Puusy.