Salary Cap: 24-25 Salary Thread Crosbicles Volume MXVI: Sad Penguins, no Ploffs, got tariffed instead

[Zirakzigil]

Getting Sid one more chance isn't just landing a lad like Misa or McKenna, it's doing what the Capitals did and allowing a coach that didn't work to move on (in our case, forcefully with a firing) and finding a coach that sees where the game is trending and adapts to it and uses the right mix of youth with the veterans. I think Dubas can do a decent enough job with the GM aspect (finding players, etc) but if the coach is a wanker like Sully, you're never going to get anywhere, there's zero point in hoping for any last chance if that's the same bloke in charge behind the bench.

There's no way the Caps are where they are right now if they had kept on Lavi.

Dubas wanted control. He didn't want something like he had in Toronto where he had to get moves approved by Shanahan.

The title never mattered. He just wanted to be at the top of the food chain.

As I said in a previous post, Dubas didn't take the GM title at first because they wanted to see if they could get Brandon Pridham from Toronto. When Pridham decided to stay later that summer, Dubas took the GM title.

That was “possibility that Dubas wanted Pridham” aka a lot of speculation by Friedman and others. I never saw Pridham wanting to leave Ontario. He seems to want to stay there and only there and is quite content with his role as its what he’s done for the NHL and Central Scouting as well as being heavily involved with the salary cap being implemented when he worked at the NHL. Shananan hired him, he’s a Shanahan loyalist.

Kyle Dubas Wanted Brandon Pridham as Penguins General Manager

It seems pretty likely that Kyle Dubas had his eye on an old pal for the Pittsburgh Penguins GM job.

thehockeynews.com

I never took that all that serious since there was never any real facts behind it. Pridham was the bloke Dubas promoted, he was their CBA and Cap specialist. I’m fine with that rumour never happening. The last few “cap and cba gurus” that were hired as Gm’s didn’t really do all that well. Tulsky is one and the other I’m thinking off the top of my head is Botts.

He'd make sense if the Pens were a contender and needed someone that could work the grey areas and the cap as well as Pridham but for a rebuilding team? Nah.


In any case that seemed about as real as Tulsky or Botterill being the Pens Gm before Dubas was hired. The Fsg love fest for Dubas was well known and heavily reported, as I said before.

the roster is actually bad enough. They were legitimately horrible all year (got outscored by 40 goals 5v5) and got weaker at the TDL. Like this team really couldn’t have played much worse.

IMO losing a couple more skaters is not at all the problem— this late goalie hot streak coupled with a dogshit Eastern conference has just reversed what would have otherwise been a successful bottom 5 finish.

I just can't care if they're picking #6, #7 or whatever. The caliber of prospects in the #5-#10 range are all pretty similar, all of Frondell, Eklund, O'Brien and Desnoyers feel pretty comparable to each other. It stinks that they're not in a position to get Hagens or Martone, but they were never in a position to do that in the first place. Saying "they could have gotten Hagens or Martone if they slipped at #5" isn't an argument in my eyes, because those guys are very likely not slipping to #5 and the Penguins have the assets to trade up from #7 to #5 if you really care so much about getting them if they slip.

Since the deadline, the Penguins are 7-5-2. They're not even playing that particularly well, that pace over a full season would have them battling it out with Montreal for the 2nd wildcard spot. It's just that Boston and Philly (before the coaching change) absolutely collapsed and the Penguins couldn't out-lose them.

We win the lottery this year

Rangers implode next year and we win the lottery with their pick

The 2019 Blues top 3 centers were all from trades as well. Not saying it's common but can be done. Top picks make it easier for sure but still. Drafting well and developing is more important than top pick lottery tickets. Look at Buffalo and Edm.

Really tough to emulate the Blues

You want a to build a sustained winner with 4-5 legit Cup winning quality years and maybe you can hit once or twice in those seasons.

Not saying it isn't hard but just another example. But a sustained winner also has good drafting and development. Not just one or 2 elite players.

Penguins don't win cups 2 and 3 without Rust, Murray, Sheary and Jake coming up through the system.

 

[CheckingLineCenter]

@Darren McCord

100% agree

I think there’s multiple ways to do it but just saying the Blues are really the only “one-off” contender in near memory that got the job done

Caps, TBL, Avs, VGK, Florida all had multiple strong years/deep runs around their wins. Would like to build something similar if possible (sadly it feels ridiculous to hope for another Sid/Malkin 17 year run)

 

[Ryder71]

Hey bro, let's get crazy up in this bitch!

 

[SomeDude]

I feel like Dubas is 100% planning to offer sheet someone this summer, probably Knies because he drafted him. Which would require offering up our 26 1st.

 

[Ryder71]

I feel like Dubas is 100% planning to offer sheet someone this summer, probably Knies because he drafted him. Which would require offering up our 26 1st.

He's not doing that bro, no way!

 

[HandshakeLine]

We need to come to terms with the fact that the next few eras of the Pens will not have a generational player/lifer like Lemieux, Crosby, Malkin. We might still win a few cups, but it won't be the same way.

 

[Ugene Magic]

I feel like Dubas is 100% planning to offer sheet someone this summer, probably Knies because he drafted him. Which would require offering up our 26 1st.

That would mean 2026 1st and 3rd.

 

[Buddy Bizarre]

I feel like Dubas is 100% planning to offer sheet someone this summer, probably Knies because he drafted him. Which would require offering up our 26 1st.

I'd throw up

 

[HandshakeLine]

I'd laugh, then throw up. And go back to watching Yodkhunpon Sittraiphum, the "Elbow Hunter of 100 Stiches" wreak someone's day.

 

[Ugene Magic]

@Darren McCord

100% agree

I think there’s multiple ways to do it but just saying the Blues are really the only “one-off” contender in near memory that got the job done

Caps, TBL, Avs, VGK, Florida all had multiple strong years/deep runs around their wins. Would like to build something similar if possible (sadly it feels ridiculous to hope for another Sid/Malkin 17 year run)

It also doesn't happen without adding a 3rd elite player in Kessel. Without him they don't win either cup though they had those prospects up.

 

[SomeDude]

He's not doing that bro, no way!

Hey, you said let’s get crazy.

 

[Ryder71]

I'd throw up

We're not doing that Bro. Better to just sign Marner and give up nothing but salary.

 

[AuroraBorealis]

I feel like Dubas is 100% planning to offer sheet someone this summer, probably Knies because he drafted him. Which would require offering up our 26 1st.

In his interview with Dreger and Ferraro it sounds like he'll preserve 1sts, but throw around 2nds and 3rds.
We currently have 14 2nds and 3rds over the next three years. Definitely not gonna draft them all.

 

[Ryder71]

Hey, you said let’s get crazy.

Bro, I meant crazy as in let's have some fun, but man, not go insane!

 

[SomeDude]

In his interview with Dreger and Ferraro it sounds like he'll preserve 1sts, but throw around 2nds and 3rds.
We currently have 14 2nds and 3rds over the next three years.

Well, what are we to believe? We’re not allowed to believe that he had no intention of keeping Schenn despite him saying so. He’s a slippery one.

 

[SomeDude]

Bro, I meant crazy as in let's have some fun, but man, not go insane!

This is HF boards. The insanity is the fun.

 

[Ryder71]

This is HF boards. The insanity is the fun.

You got me there my man!

 

[AuroraBorealis]

Well, what are we to believe? We’re not allowed to believe that he had no intention of keeping Schenn despite him saying so. He’s a slippery one.

What happened there is the trade request came after he mentioned the plan for him.
And thank goodness for that, because that was a hell of a return.

I'll agree he can be deceptive sometimes though. He made it sound like Petry and Granlund were staying.
But I think he's drawn a line in the sand for himself between the 1sts and everything else.

 

[SomeDude]

What happened there is the trade request came after he mentioned the plan for him.
And thank goodness for that, because that was a hell of a return.

I'll agree he can be deceptive sometimes though. He made it sound like Petry and Granlund were staying.
But I think he's drawn a line in the sand for himself between the 1sts and everything else.

I can 100% see him doing that and justifying it by saying it’s to help the current roster and Sid since he’s proven he is still elite. It’s clear with Rakell still here that they’re not just going to tank it.

The ideal scenario is Rags pick slides to 26, we sign Dobson to an offer sheet. Rags suck and we win McKenna. Gary can hook it up one last time before he rides into the sunset.

 

[SEALBound]

How are we getting Misa?

I don't see this team with Sid being bad enough for McKenna.

Lottery wins. As is, 6% chance. It requires a miracle but then again so did Sid.

I don't think this team is going to luck into another situation like Lemieux or Crosby and then have the ability to also luck into Jagr and Malkin as well as countless others that ended up being huge for this team.

To me, I see this as an opportunity to load up on quality throughout the line-up and like you said, you can likely trade for a very good B level Franchise player or a legit one like some luck out and get to. But having that strong depth of prospects and players to fill out on the roster with the Defense, the depth forwards, Goalies, etc is also a great start to me. So if getting that top 5 pick gets them a very good "one of those" then that's also more than good in my books.

Because the Sharks didn't draft Thornton, they traded for him, same for Vegas and that douche Eichel. You never know, but if you added either of those types and then had shit all to surround them because of the massive cap allocated to that type of player, then what is even the point of having them.

Yeah, I mean mostly likely we are adding a McGroarty level piece this draft, which is fine. But looking forward in the post Sid era, we need that top level talent. Thornton and Eichel are good examples of 1Cs being moved but as you can see, it's extremely rare.

The 2019 Blues top 3 centers were all from trades as well. Not saying it's common but can be done. Top picks make it easier for sure but still. Drafting well and developing is more important than top pick lottery tickets. Look at Buffalo and Edm.

Blues I would say are the extreme exception to the rule. Blues also had Pietro as a 5ov so they did have top talent in a sense. They also rode a hot Binnington. I would also say that Boston is another team that's been able to compete for awhile without top picks but they also got very lucky with Bergeron, Marchand, and Pasta being elite players drafted later and then Chara, Ullmark, etc being premium additions. So it does illustrate that you can build competitive teams in different ways. Certainly, being bad and getting a top pick for a top talent is the best way though.

 

[DesertedPenguin]

Well, what are we to believe? We’re not allowed to believe that he had no intention of keeping Schenn despite him saying so. He’s a slippery one.

Schenn himself says that Dubas told him he intended to keep him, but they met again because other teams upped their offers and the market was greater than anticipated.

Schenn said Dubas was very transparent and had good conversations with him.

There's a good Crosby story there, too.

 

[HandshakeLine]

Eh.

 

[Empoleon8771]

I don't see it as very likely that the Penguins use any of their 1sts to add win now help, especially their own 1st. I can see offersheets being in play, but they'd more likely be the kind of offersheets St. Louis did last year with using 2nds and 3rds to get players.

The only way I can realistically see them moving a 1st is if they trade Rakell or Karlsson for a 1st and then flip that 1st for a center. Otherwise I'm not expecting any sort of major moves like that.

 

[SomeDude]

Schenn himself says that Dubas told him he intended to keep him, but they met again because other teams upped their offers and the market was greater than anticipated.

Schenn said Dubas was very transparent and had good conversations with him.

So I suppose I was justified to make fun of Dubas for attempting to turn Bunting into a somehow worse choice and we shouldn’t be heaping praise on him for Schenn bailing him out of it.

Last week he was a genius who planned to flip Schenn all along.

I stand by my prediction of an offer sheet where we give up our 2026 1st.

 

[MeinerEiner]

If I were stuck in Duba's shoes, I would listen to the offers for Rakell at the draft and strike at a suitable one. I would forward the return of this trade 1:1 to the Sabres and try to get Peterka with it. Possibly add a draft pick.