Salary Cap: 24-25 Salary Thread Crosbicles Volume MXVI: End of season wrap up

[BlindWillyMcHurt]

I'm borrowing the term Gurgs argument vortex.

Tbh, I do think it's a good argument that a team aiming to rebuild should be putting wings on Sid's line to bump up their numbers, trade them, get another guy, go again, and so on. I'd also add that a team looking to get younger probably shouldn't be taking a "make me" stance on two wingers the wrong side of 30 too. I don't know what the offers were but I do wonder if it was the smartest move.

I doubt they are ever trading Rust. That guy must have helped them all hide a really important body or something I dunno.

As far as Raks goes... fair enough that maybe the work there isn't done yet. But like I said I feel like there is a pretty good chance that we will be looking back to last year very soon with some regret as the best time to have traded him.

 

[Gurglesons]

Yes, It's been a thing Sids whole career, he will make his linemates score, unless they are Craig Adams, or Drew O'Connor haha.

I don't think it was intentional, but like I mentioned above, I do believe the market for a 35 goal/5mill a year guy will be expanded quite a bit with the significant cap increase. Now, will the return be insane? probably not, but I don't think it be underwhelming.

And what happens if he gets injured and is a 15 and 37 pt guy again next year?

Then we missed our opportunity.

Tomas Hertl is one hell of a player. San Jose sold him for what looked like a poor return that turned into Askarov.

You don't have to win every trade if you are making the team better.

This was the issue with Ray Shero vs Jim Rutherford. Shero won most of his trades on paper. Rutherford didn't.

 

[BlindWillyMcHurt]

Raks doesn't even have to be injured next year to turn into a pumpkin. It could be something as simple as being a streaky player to begin with or getting stuck next to Malkin all year or something.

 

[DesertPenguin]

Trading Rakell and Rust is not stripping it down lol.

Given the established loyalty to Crosby, Malkin and Letang, for better or for worse, who else but Rakell, Rust and EK65 could we trade out and get any real value for? Maybe Novak? Maybe? Rust, Rakell, EK65 out is the most "stripping it down" this team would ever realistically do, and it's OK to do it in waves instead of all at once. We already moved out Guenzel, Pettersson, and Bunting (who we got for Jake). Thats a major piece per year. I'm fine with it taking another offseason, trade deadline, offseason to do the rest if that's what happens.

 

[Gurglesons]

Given the established loyalty to Crosby, Malkin and Letang, for better or for worse, who else but Rakell, Rust and EK65 could we trade out and get any real value for? Maybe Novak? Maybe? Rust, Rakell, EK65 out is the most "stripping it down" this team would ever realistically do, and it's OK to do it in waves instead of all at once. We already moved out Guenzel, Pettersson, and Bunting (who we got for Jake). Thats a major piece per year. I'm fine with it taking another offseason, trade deadline, offseason to do the rest if that's what happens.

Yes. This is exactly the point.

You move on from Rakell and Rust, because they aren't the core.

They are also easily replaceable.

 

[DesertPenguin]

Yes. This is exactly the point.

You move on from Rakell and Rust, because they aren't the core.

They are also easily replaceable.

I still have faith that we will, in time.

If all three are on the opening night roster this coming season, let's revisit. Over/under for number that get traded is 1.5, in my estimation.

 

[Duffy13]

And what happens if he gets injured and is a 15 and 37 pt guy again next year?

Then we missed our opportunity.

Tomas Hertl is one hell of a player. San Jose sold him for what looked like a poor return that turned into Askarov.

You don't have to win every trade if you are making the team better.

This was the issue with Ray Shero vs Jim Rutherford. Shero won most of his trades on paper. Rutherford didn't.

THIS!!!! is why he has to be moved this summer. If he is kept for the start of the season, then any drop in play, will definitely hurt.

If I was having to decide on who to trade in the summer and who to trade at the deadline with these gambles...

1. Rakell maintains the same level of play as last year

or

2. Karlsson improves his play and production.

I am betting on Karlsson more than I would bet on Rakell, and deal Rakell this offseason and trade Karlsson at the deadline.

HOWEVER, I think they should both should probably be moved this summer if there's a good deal to be made.

I'm not in the strip everything to the bones camp, but I am in the acquire as many assets as possible with moving everything not nailed down, and short term replace with adequate players. I mean, I want to have some fun watching the games, even when they are losing lol

 

[Tasty Biscuits]

If they win the McKenna lottery next year, he'll be up for his first RFA contract in 2029 while Marner still has probably about half of his deal left.

Which would be sick, since nothing about Marner's game screams early-30s decline, especially with the direction the league continues to head.

I guess what it comes down to is, if Marner would decide to want to come here, you take that all day. Much much more of a sure thing than banking on winning the 1oa lottery.

 

[Pens1566]

To the discussion about trading Rakell, I still maintain the absolute highest his value will ever be was leading up to last years trade deadline. We missed an opportunity there.

 

[BlindWillyMcHurt]

To the discussion about trading Rakell, I still maintain the absolute highest his value will ever be was leading up to last years trade deadline. We missed an opportunity there.

Hard to disagree.

I just don't see him putting up the kinds of numbers he had last year leading up to the deadline. At least it should not be counted on or certainly not assumed.

Plus again... what if Crosby gets injured next year? What if HE gets injured next year and pulls a Robert Lang? What if he doesn't even play with Crosby most of next year? What if the next coach decides he ain't it when it comes to top powerplay time?

 

[Buddy Bizarre]

even at his age, with 3 years remaining at 5 million, Rakell will probably be worth a lot more to teams after the salary cap goes up. Teams that want a 25- 30 goal scorer for a very reasonable cap hit may all of a sudden have the space for him, Tampa, Colorado, St Louis, Vegas, would be able to join the discussion for a guy at that cap hit, and that performance a lot easier.

Exactly how I see it.

Right now, with the current cap Rak is too steep for other contenders to fit in.
When the cap goes up, he's going to outperform his cap hit relative to cap % easily. I wouldn't exactly call it a "bidding war" for his services but he'll be in high demand.

Same thing applies to Rust but we know that ain't happenin...

 

[Duffy13]

Exactly how I see it.

Right now, with the current cap Rak is too steep for other contenders to fit in.
When the cap goes up, he's going to outperform his cap hit relative to cap % easily. I wouldn't exactly call it a "bidding war" for his services but he'll be in high demand.

Same thing applies to Rust but we know that ain't happenin...

Yeah it's a shame Rust doesn't seem to be available. It's kind of odd how these guys want to cling to the past, when for Rust 70% of his past in this jersey has been losing in the 1st round or missing the playoffs completely. Why wouldn't he want to chase another cup, or even to just be in the playoffs? Loyalty is one thing, but this sport only offers opportunity for such a small time frame, go out and try to win you weirdo!!

 

[Peat]

I doubt they are ever trading Rust. That guy must have helped them all hide a really important body or something I dunno.

As far as Raks goes... fair enough that maybe the work there isn't done yet. But like I said I feel like there is a pretty good chance that we will be looking back to last year very soon with some regret as the best time to have traded him.

Yeah. Although I do think Dubas is trading a guy this draft.

And if he doesn't, oh well. He got a good enough haul this deadline that I'm not jumping up and down. If he thinks that Rust/Rakell will really help the young forwards, or if he thinks NHL GMs don't value picks in this draft to the point where he's willing to gamble on getting a 1st next year and more spending power, then whatevs. He's demonstrated that he understands the basics of the brief well enough I'm not going to get het up on every incident. Curious, but that's it.

 

[BlindWillyMcHurt]

Yeah it's a shame Rust doesn't seem to be available. It's kind of odd how these guys want to cling to the past, when for Rust 70% of his past in this jersey has been losing in the 1st round or missing the playoffs completely. Why wouldn't he want to chase another cup, or even to just be in the playoffs? Loyalty is one thing, but this sport only offers opportunity for such a small time frame, go out and try to win you weirdo!!

Rust seems like a great guy... great in the room and all that. And as a player he's fine. Better than fine, really... so long as he's healthy he's a nice complimentary winger for a top line.

I just resent this like... mythos that has been built around him by the team. And to consistently lump him in with the core who has um... done the things they have done... is really kinda cringy.

 

[Duffy13]

Jake is out there showing he is more than just Sids line mate having to drag that other guy around... Kuch something, seems like he could do something with himself at some point... But enough about him until he makes a name for himself... but JAKE is out there doing it!!!

Why doesn't Rust want to do that too? weirdo

 

[Duffy13]

Rust seems like a great guy... great in the room and all that. And as a player he's fine. Better than fine, really... so long as he's healthy he's a nice complimentary winger for a top line.

I just resent this like... mythos that has been built around him by the team. And to consistently lump him in with the core who has um... done the things they have done... is really kinda cringy.

Agreed, he's a fine complimentary player... but he is not, and will never be a core player, on any team, I like the guy, but jesus, this team is desperate for faces to hang on the banners outside the arena on game day.

 

[BlindWillyMcHurt]

Yeah. Although I do think Dubas is trading a guy this draft.

And if he doesn't, oh well. He got a good enough haul this deadline that I'm not jumping up and down. If he thinks that Rust/Rakell will really help the young forwards, or if he thinks NHL GMs don't value picks in this draft to the point where he's willing to gamble on getting a 1st next year and more spending power, then whatevs. He's demonstrated that he understands the basics of the brief well enough I'm not going to get het up on every incident. Curious, but that's it.

I guess it just depends on what you want to see the team do.

I'm mostly checked out and don't care. But the "REBUILD NOW" crowd that was trying to sell me on trash like taking on Kevin Hayes for picks as smart and where we are now SHOULD be quite irritated if Raks finds himself on the opening-day roster.

 

[CheckingLineCenter]

I kinda disregard everything he publicly says

However. Dubas has talked about the importance of keeping JVR, Bozak, Komarov for the Leafs. I think there is a legit chance they never move Rust/Rakell.

 

[BlindWillyMcHurt]

Agreed, he's a fine complimentary player... but he is not, and will never be a core player, on any team, I like the guy, but jesus, this team is desperate for faces to hang on the banners outside the arena on game day.

I think a lot of it is that he's a "homegrown" talent and for some reason has accumulated a "lunch pail guy" reputation over the years which this town just eats up. Nevermind that he hasn't exhibited any qualities of such a player for nearly a decade and is now mostly the kind of player large portions of this fanbase love to hate -- a floaty sniper guy who actually isn't the greatest sniper.

 

[Gurglesons]

I kinda disregard everything he publicly says

However. Dubas has talked about the importance of keeping JVR, Bozak, Komarov for the Leafs. I think there is a legit chance they never move Rust/Rakell.

I mean makes sense. The Leafs had a ton of success by keeping the vet.

 

[Ragamuffin Gunner]

Difference between high draft picks versus tanking in my opinion.

What do you consider tanking?

I'd have to go back and look, but I'd pretty much guarantee that all those Cup winners with top-five picks sold at the TDL didn't sign the top FA every summer. Is that tanking?

 

[pistolpete11]

Raks doesn't even have to be injured next year to turn into a pumpkin. It could be something as simple as being a streaky player to begin with or getting stuck next to Malkin all year or something.

I know you're being snarky, but weren't Malkin-Rakell killing it to start the season last year? And because Crosby wasn't, Sullivan decided enough was enough and put Rakell with Sid instead?

 

[BlindWillyMcHurt]

I know you're being snarky, but weren't Malkin-Rakell killing it to start the season last year? And because Crosby wasn't, Sullivan decided enough was enough and put Rakell with Sid instead?

Yes. It was one of the best lines in the game for like 15 games or whatever. But Crosby was cold to start the year and things were shuffled quickly.

I'm not blaming Crosby. Hell as far as I know it was Malkin's idea. But it smells like Sullivan doing Sullivan things.

But Raks/Malkin was gone back to at the end of the year and looked about as good as they have in the past aside from that spurt to start the season. Which is to say "bad."

 

[HandshakeLine]

I kinda disregard everything he publicly says

However. Dubas has talked about the importance of keeping JVR, Bozak, Komarov for the Leafs. I think there is a legit chance they never move Rust/Rakell.

Just when I start to like Dubas... It would be such a dumb own-goal to not move those two.

 

[Big Friggin Dummy]

Just when I start to like Dubas... It would be such a dumb own-goal to not move those two.

But Sidney Cwosby needs someone to play with. And they're super important for the next chapter, mentors etc.

It really is a no-brainer to move those two. Just staring this team right in the face, it just makes sense. Which is precisely why I'm concerned it won't happen--especially with their weird Rust fetish.