Salary Cap: 24-25 Salary Thread Crosbicles Volume MXVI: End of season wrap up

[BlindWillyMcHurt]

I'm full up on retreads, journeymen, "projects," bargain bin finds and trash that is so odious that you have to be paid to take it away.

It's just clogging up the roster. There is no point to it. There are more than enough guys who are as ready as they are going to be for depth (or maybe even better) roles at the NHL level that doing the above is essentially punting on yet another year of development for no good reason.

 

[Gurglesons]

Tanking is so 1980s to early 2000s, man.

I mean it's true.

The league has created a system that does not reward tanking.

And it's evident by literally every team that has tanked being in turmoil.

Detroit is just now pulling themselves out of it.

 

[Gurglesons]

Trading Rakell absolutely would not have had this level of impact. The team won so much down the stretch because of Jarry.

17 pts in 18 games didn't have an impact?

Jarry had the 28th best SV% from the deadline onward.

 

[BlindWillyMcHurt]

I mean it's true.

The league has created a system that does not reward tanking.

And it's evident by literally every team that has tanked being in turmoil.

Detroit is just now pulling themselves out of it.

No I was being serious.

Tanking isn't really a viable strategy in today's league IMO. At least not in the way we understand it from years past.

 

[Gurglesons]

The way to success in today's NHL is amassing 1st round picks, targeting elite talent when it's available, and being realistic about where you are on a year to year basis.

The Penguins can easily make the playoffs in the Metro next year, people acting like that isn't a reality are not paying attention to the trends in terms of how mediocre their divsion is.

They can also finish last in the league.

The job Kyle needs to do is understand that while not caring about it.

He should be focusing on getting 1st round picks.

The fact he's only acquired one since "committing to the rebuild" is a huge issue in terms of us getting to the next stage.

 

[Empoleon8771]

17 pts in 18 games didn't have an impact?

Jarry had the 28th best SV% from the deadline onward.

Go look at the actual games. Jarry stole like 4-5 games of his last 14 games played last year and had quality starts in like 75% of his games.

His save% was shitty because he had 3 awful games, with giving up 4 goals on 7 shots, 4 goals on 12 shots and 5 goals on 19 shots. In the other 11 games, he gave up 23 goals on 336 shots, which is a .932 save%.

 

[Gurglesons]

Go look at the actual games. Jarry stole like 4-5 games of his last 14 games played last year and had quality starts in like 75% of his games.

His save% was shitty because he had 3 awful games, with giving up 4 goals on 7 shots, 4 goals on 12 shots and 5 goals on 19 shots. In the other 11 games, he gave up 23 goals on 336 shots, which is a .932 save%.

I watched the actual games.

Moving on from Rakell would've done significant damage to our point production.

Not moving him is still a hugely moronic move especially given Dubas suddenly decided to cut bait with Sullivan and is allegedly focused on rebuilding.

 

[Empoleon8771]

I watched the actual games. Moving on from Rakell would've done significant damage to our point production.

Apparently not if you think Jarry didn't carry the team down the stretch with him playing out of his mind good.

 

[Gurglesons]

Apparently not if you think Jarry didn't carry the team down the stretch with him playing out of his mind good.

Once again. Rakell would've done significant damage to our chances.

No need to excuse it. It was a bad move especially given what Dubas has seemingly committed to this summer.

It honestly makes no sense that we kept him.

 

[Peat]

The way to success in today's NHL is amassing 1st round picks, targeting elite talent when it's available, and being realistic about where you are on a year to year basis.

The Penguins can easily make the playoffs in the Metro next year, people acting like that isn't a reality are not paying attention to the trends in terms of how mediocre their divsion is.

Can't say I recall Tampa/Florida/Colorado getting a bunch of extra 1sts.

Although from this angle, the ideal thing to do with Marner is get him, cross your fingers for the rest of Sid, and then a year after Sid retires, go to Marner and go "whoops, this team isn't good, can we please deal you to a team that is for a 1st"

 

[BlindWillyMcHurt]

The way to success in today's NHL is amassing 1st round picks, targeting elite talent when it's available, and being realistic about where you are on a year to year basis.

Yeah and a LOT of luck especially re: timing.

 

[Jared Grayden]

I mean it's true.

The league has created a system that does not reward tanking.

And it's evident by literally every team that has tanked being in turmoil.

Detroit is just now pulling themselves out of it.

Detroit did not initially try to tank. They were good then aged out and didn't have a prospect pool to replace their aging out players leaving them with only one option as a franchise. San Jose and Chicago were the same. And that's the trajectory Pittsburgh is currently on. So prepare for pain either in the short-term severely or in the long term irrelevance. Though I do agree with you that Dubas not getting additional first rounders in trades is a mistake.

 

[Gurglesons]

Can't say I recall Tampa/Florida/Colorado getting a bunch of extra 1sts.

Although from this angle, the ideal thing to do with Marner is get him, cross your fingers for the rest of Sid, and then a year after Sid retires, go to Marner and go "whoops, this team isn't good, can we please deal you to a team that is for a 1st"

Tampa leveraged St. Louis into multiple picks that resulted in them getting Cirelli.

Vasi was taken with the 1st they acquired for Kyle Quincey.

Colorado leveraged Matt Duchene into Girard and the 1st that turned into Byram.

Florida you're right.

 

[Gurglesons]

Detroit did not initially try to tank. They were good then aged out and didn't have a prospect pool to replace their aging out players leaving them with only one option as a franchise. San Jose and Chicago were the same. And that's the trajectory Pittsburgh is currently on. So prepare for pain either in the short-term severely or in the long term irrelevance. Though I do agree with you that Dubas not getting additional first rounders in trades is a mistake.

Detroit 100% tried to tank when Yzerman came aboard.

 

[SEALBound]

Though I do agree with you that Dubas not getting additional first rounders in trades is a mistake.

What additional 1st rounders were on the table that Dubas balked on?

 

[Ugene Magic]

Saw a random rumor yesterday (twitter I think) that we're gonna target Tavares in FA. I threw up in my mouth a little bit.

I suspect he and Toronto work it out in the end for a significant decrease in cost but man, Tavares coming here makes very little sense for either party. So print the jerseys I guess.

Sure, if it's a 1 year deal and he gets moved at the trade deadline...

I know he said no aging players, but I think that was guys with term. Tavares brings about depth the team requires to be competitive again.

So I wouldn't dismiss it altogether. He fits within the window.

 

[CheckingLineCenter]

I think the argument is more so that the teams that are having success right now in Dallas, Florida, and Colorado never intentionally tanked.

Agree but you don’t have to follow them to a T

Point is I would intentionally try to draft high for a couple seasons. Then go hard at competing.

 

[pistolpete11]

Mapping out a rebuild is a fool's errand.

You don't know what effect a new coach is going to have on the existing players. You don't know what prospects will make a jump or when. You don't know what players will become available in FA or via trade. Goalies are voodoo and you never know when one will start playing well.

I say just keeping adding good players when you can and let the rest fall where it may. If you can get an elite one like Marner in FA without giving up other assets, go for it. I'd rather have him and not need him than need him and not have him.

 

[Empoleon8771]

Once again. Rakell would've done significant damage to our chances.

No need to excuse it. It was a bad move especially given what Dubas has seemingly committed to this summer.

It honestly makes no sense that we kept him.

Losing Rakell would have hurt them, yes, my point was that it wouldn't hurt them nearly to the degree you're suggesting and Jarry's stellar player was what caused them to drop in the draft more than anything.

In their last 21 games, Rakell did have 10 goals and 21 points. But if you look at how those points were distributed, a lot of them didn't really have a huge impact on the actual results of the game. He put up a lot of points in either losses, easy wins or in empty nets when the game was already over. You're only talking about flipping maybe 1-2 games by trading Rakell and replacing him with someone else. While Jarry individually stole like 5 games to end the season.

Losing Rakell at most converts a 3/2 OTL to a L, a 3/11 OTW to a L and a 4/3 OTL to a L. That's really about it.

 

[Jared Grayden]

What additional 1st rounders were on the table that Dubas balked on?

Rakell definitely should have been moved with deadline prices being what they were, he only had an 8 NTC, and he almost definitely would have tanked them in the standings more. Moreover, this summer all three of Karlsson, Rust, Rakell should be moved for futures. Not BS lateral roster moves for the Pittsburgh Crosbys to finish in 21st place instead of 27th.

 

[Gurglesons]

Losing Rakell would have hurt them, yes, my point was that it wouldn't hurt them nearly to the degree you're suggesting and Jarry's stellar player was what caused them to drop in the draft more than anything.

In their last 21 games, Rakell did have 10 goals and 21 points. But if you look at how those points were distributed, a lot of them didn't really have a huge impact on the actual results of the game. He put up a lot of points in either losses, easy wins or in empty nets when the game was already over. You're only talking about flipping maybe 1-2 games by trading Rakell and replacing him with someone else. While Jarry individually stole like 5 games to end the season.

Seems like you're just arguing to argue here.

You move out Rakell just like Guentzel it probably hurts the room and they go spiraling a little bit.

We saw it in Boston.

The reality is for some reason Dubas thought it was smarter to keep Rakell for reasons I'll never understand.

 

[Jared Grayden]

Detroit 100% tried to tank when Yzerman came aboard.

Yes and that was after how many years of Holland refusing to rebuild? So you can't simultaneously say rebuilding doesn't work whilst then disingenuously ignoring the fact that they tried to not rebuild initially. That's hypocritical.

 

[BlindWillyMcHurt]

People can squirm around it all they want but if there were deals available for Raks and Rust and they were not taken it runs contrary to the words some of ya'll keep putting in Dubas' mouth. I personally don't think he's really ready for a "real" rebuild anyway and part of the reason that Sullivan is now coaching for a different team is because while Dubas expected a down year he probably didn't expect THAT.

 

[Empoleon8771]

Seems like you're just arguing to argue here.

You move out Rakell just like Guentzel it probably hurts the room and they go spiraling a little bit.

We saw it in Boston.

The reality is for some reason Dubas thought it was smarter to keep Rakell for reasons I'll never understand.

No, my initial argument was that trading Rakell wouldn't have had that kind of impact and their draft pick dropped mostly due to Jarry playing great. I was never saying they shouldn't have traded Rakell nor keeping Rakell didn't hurt their draft pick, I was saying that Jarry was the larger factor there.

 

[Gurglesons]

Yes and that was after how many years of Holland refusing to rebuild? So you can't simultaneously say rebuilding doesn't work whilst then disingenuously ignoring the fact that they tried to not rebuild initially. That's hypocritical.

Holland failed to realize the Red Wings reality in multiple years.

Dubas has failed to realize his as well.

The issues are bad management and decision making versus philosphy.