Salary Cap: 24-25 Salary Thread Crosbicles Volume MXVI: End of season wrap up

[Big Friggin Dummy]

Getting a Marner locked in as the cap exponentially grows is a great idea.

I doubt he signs here, but acting like it's a dumb move is silly.

This team can easily finish 1st overall in a draft just like the Islanders just did.

If you can sell Rakell or Rust for a 1st + and get Marner you're allocating assets while also signing a piece that could help us turn things around while Sid is here with a little luck.

That's the way to formulate a good team in today's NHL. Keep your 1sts and gather as many as you can for players like Marner when they become available.

Marner will be an elite player for the next 5 seasons at minimum.

If you can get that for nothing, you have to do it.

Nah, Marner this summer is a f***in' dumb idea posited by people who can't come to grips with the fact that it's inevitable that this team's gonna have to be dogshit for a while before they hopefully have a core of elite young players on ELCs to build around via trade and FA.

Great player, horrible fit for where this team's at now and will be for the next half decade, maybe more. If this team had actually committed to the suck a couple years ago when they should've, and they had a stable of young guys like San Jose, hell yeah. That's the time to start going nuts in an effort to get back into the conversation. But this team's still years away from being where San Jose is with regard to amassing talent.

But we're just talking in circles cuz we're all dug in on the topic and there's no real reason he'd want to come to this team anyway. The off-season's a hell of a thing when you're a Pens fan and the organization's let Sullivan, JR, Hextall and Dubas run roughshod for like 7 years.

 

[Gurglesons]

Nah, Marner this summer is a f***in' dumb idea posited by people who can't come to grips with the fact that it's inevitable that this team's gonna have to be dogshit for a while before they hopefully have a core of elite young players on ELCs to build around via trade and FA.

Great player, horrible fit for where this team's at now and will be for the next half decade, maybe more. If this team had actually committed to the suck a couple years ago when they should've, and they had a stable of young guys like San Jose, hell yeah. That's the time to start going nuts in an effort to get back into the conversation. But this team's still years away from being where San Jose is with regard to amassing talent.

But we're just talking in circles cuz we're all dug in on the topic and there's no real reason he'd want to come to this team anyway. The off-season's a hell of a thing when you're a Pens fan and the organization's let Sullivan, JR, Hextall and Dubas run roughshod for like 7 years.

Didn't you just say it doesn't matter if we finish 1st overall?

Mitch Marner isn't preventing us from tanking.

San Jose has amassed talent by making immediate moves to get worse.

It's obvious Dubas isn't doing that.

San Jose has also reallocated resources into players like Askarov.

The reality is much like the Cup the draft is about luck, not process.

 

[Gurglesons]

The reality is the Penguins don't have the ability even if they want to, to follow the plan you want.

They aren't selling Sid, Malkin or Letang. And they can't unless one of them asks out.

So you are basically forced into taking an alternate approach to rebuilding that isn't hoping for assets by trading your Brent Burns, Tomas Hertl, and Erik Karlsson foundational guys.

 

[Big Friggin Dummy]

Didn't you just say it doesn't matter if we finish 1st overall?

Mitch Marner isn't preventing us from tanking.

San Jose has amassed talent by making immediate moves to get worse.

It's obvious Dubas isn't doing that.

San Jose has also reallocated resources into players like Askarov.

The reality is much like the Cup the draft is about luck, not process.

If you don't think Sid and Marner are absolutely a good enough duo to ratf*** this team's draft position for the next couple of years, I dunno what to tell ya. The margin of error is razor thin when you're trying to settle into top picks, just like it is for any WC race. This team was like 3 regulation losses away from sitting 4th overall before the lotto. They were very realistically a no-brainer Rakell TDL trade away from a great pick. Now we're talking about whether or not to draft a kid with a severed achilles or a dude who skates like Craig Adams and has a potential chronic back issue cuz he's tall.

All adding Marner does is keep you drafting like 15th overall until Sid retires, then you've got a metaphorical paperweight for the next 5 years of miserable finishes while you cross your fingers and hope your scouting, drafting and development are good enough to piece together a foundation.

Dumb idea, sorry. Can't wait for him to sign with like Utah or LA or San Jose so all this donkeybrains nonsense can die.

 

[Big Friggin Dummy]

The reality is the Penguins don't have the ability even if they want to, to follow the plan you want.

They aren't selling Sid, Malkin or Letang. And they can't unless one of them asks out.

So you are basically forced into taking an alternate approach to rebuilding that isn't hoping for assets by trading your Brent Burns, Tomas Hertl, and Erik Karlsson foundational guys.

Geno's not moving the needle. Letang's awful. EK wants out, you give him what he wants. You trade Rust or Rakell once the dust settles and some team's desperate to get some talent after missing out on Marner, Boeser, etc. in the first few days of FA. Hope the remaining of the two wingers builds some value and gets you a haul at the TDL. Team's easily bad enough to finish bottom 3 minus those guys.

 

[Gurglesons]

If you don't think Sid and Marner are absolutely a good enough duo to ratf*** this team's draft position for the next couple of years, I dunno what to tell ya. The margin of error is razor thin when you're trying to settle into top picks, just like it is for any WC race. This team was like 3 regulation losses away from sitting 4th overall before the lotto. They were very realistically a no-brainer Rakell TDL trade away from a great pick. Now we're talking about whether or not to draft a kid with a severed achilles or a dude who skates like Craig Adams and has a potential chronic back issue cuz he's tall.

All adding Marner does is keep you drafting like 15th overall until Sid retires, then you've got a metaphorical paperweight for the next 5 years of miserable finishes while you cross your fingers and hope your scouting, drafting and development are good enough to piece together a foundation.

Dumb idea, sorry. Can't wait for him to sign with like Utah or LA or San Jose so all this donkeybrains nonsense can die.

Two of the top 4 teams in the draft this year finished above us by 2 and 7 points respectably.

I highly doubt Marner signs here, but to shrug off that level of talent for free would be extremely foolish if he is willing to sign here in my opinion for a market that will likely never again attract a UFA that level.

 

[Honour Over Glory]

I'm sure the franchise and fanbase will cherish that for years.

It’s funny they lost both times 4-2 to Florida teams lol.

In the last 5 seasons they missed the playoffs twice and are on their 4th head coach. That’s not a team that is winning shit all anytime soon. It’s also an older team with a shit cap.

Their prospect pool ranks a spot higher than the Pens on some sites. But that cap situation - they still need to sign K Miller, Cuylle, and some lesser RFA’s and then the raises for Laf, Borgen, and Igor kick in too. Oh and their team MVP tried to sexually assault someone on their staff.

Lol f*** them.

 

[Honour Over Glory]

And what is the lesson from Florida and Vegas and to an extent Colorado?

Grab elite pieces while you can and figure it out from there.

I could have sworn the lesson was find better ways to game the LTIR loophole.

 

[Honour Over Glory]

Two of the top 4 teams in the draft this year finished above us by 2 and 7 points respectably.

I highly doubt Marner signs here, but to shrug off that level of talent for free would be extremely foolish if he is willing to sign here in my opinion for a market that will likely never again attract a UFA that level.

Unless Kyle is hoping for a Carbery type of situation happening, I don’t know if signing Marner is the move unless he’s aiming for that scenario to unfold. But if they do that and then they trade Rakell over Rust, they’ve understood nothing.

 

[Gurglesons]

Unless Kyle is hoping for a Carbery type of situation happening, I don’t know if signing Marner is the move unless he’s aiming for that scenario to unfold. But if they do that and then they trade Rakell over Rust, they’ve understood nothing.

I don't think Kyle's hoping for much to happen. Which is why you should just acquire as many elite players as you can and say f*** it.

There isn't a clear plan in place to tear down or compete.

 

[Big Friggin Dummy]

Two of the top 4 teams in the draft this year finished above us by 2 and 7 points respectably.

I highly doubt Marner signs here, but to shrug off that level of talent for free would be extremely foolish if he is willing to sign here in my opinion for a market that will likely never again attract a UFA that level.

Again, it's about the timeline not the player. It's stupid as hell for this team, in its current spot and looking forward, to throw the bank at him. And I'll be happy as hell if/when it doesn't happen.

If Marner wasn't a purely supporting cast guy, maybe. But he's definitely not The Guy to carry the baton in the bridge era between Sid/Geno and whatever's next, and by the time this team hopefully drafts core pieces, he'll realistically be well out of his prime.

 

[Gurglesons]

Again, it's about the timeline not the player. It's stupid as hell for this team, in its current spot and looking forward, to throw the bank at him. And I'll be happy as hell if/when it doesn't happen.

If Marner wasn't a purely supporting cast guy, maybe. But he's definitely not The Guy to carry the baton in the bridge era between Sid/Geno and whatever's next, and by the time this team hopefully drafts core pieces, he'll realistically be well out of his prime.

I think you're blissfully ignoring what Dubas' plan actually is here and realistically what every franchise in the NHL's plan is.

 

[Big Friggin Dummy]

I think you're blissfully ignoring what Dubas' plan actually is here and realistically what every franchise in the NHL's plan is.

I'm not sure Dubas even has a plan tbh. But he's said he doesn't anticipate chasing big name/contract targets in FA, hasn't he?

I dunno. Path forward seems pretty clear to me. Trade EK and one of Rust/Rakell this summer. Sign or trade for some guys you can flip for a profit at the TDL or that team's pay you assets to take (sorry BlindWilly). Trade the other Rust/Rakell winger who isn't dealt this summer at the TDL. Hunker down for a handful of years and hope you can scout/draft/develop yourself a core that'll keep you relevant for a decade or more as opposed to trying to cut corners.

 

[Gurglesons]

I'm not sure Dubas even has a plan tbh. But he's said he doesn't anticipate chasing big name/contract targets in FA, hasn't he?

I dunno. Path forward seems pretty clear to me. Trade EK and one of Rust/Rakell this summer. Sign or trade for some guys you can flip for a profit at the TDL or that team's pay you assets to take (sorry BlindWilly). Trade the other Rust/Rakell winger who isn't dealt this summer at the TDL. Hunker down for a handful of years and hope you can scout/draft/develop yourself a core that'll keep you relevant for a decade or more as opposed to trying to cut corners.

I don't think any teams will be paying assets to get out of contracts this year.

I'm fine with trading Rust / Rakell and EK, but realistically much like the Red Wings you'll have to be insulating your prospect group from the roster.

Maybe that's Saad on a one year deal.

 

[DesertedPenguin]

I don't think Dubas expects Marner to come to Pittsburgh. But he will absolutely talk to him and his agent if he heads to free agency.

It's exactly as @Gurglesons said - when you have the opportunity, no matter how slim, to add elite talent for just cash, you explore it, no matter where you are in the building process.

I don't think Dubas expects to be active with unrestricted free agents unless it's one or two stopgaps who are prime flip candidates. He's going to spend most of his time pursuing RFAs through trades and maybe an offer sheet. He's going to go after regular trades.

But because of Mariner's unique situation, he'll definitely give him at least a call and see where things go.

 

[Big Friggin Dummy]

Sorry. Nobody's gonna convince me that signing a 28 year old supporting cast guy to like a $95M contract is a good or prudent idea when a team has no prospects of significance and a 38 year old core. It's just nonsense.

If he was a center or blueliner, sure. Kick the tires, see what the deal is. But he's very clearly not The Guy to carry the baton of the post-Sid years or really act as a mentor for the next crop, and he'll be well past his prime by the time this team's scrabbled together a core through the draft to build around and try and go for it again.

 

[HandshakeLine]

I have no problem with Dubas approaching and even signing Marner, it just makes the rebuild more difficult in some ways and I'm not sure I'm confident enough that Dubas can thread that needle. We'll see though, I doubt Marner comes here.

 

[Honour Over Glory]

I don't think Kyle's hoping for much to happen. Which is why you should just acquire as many elite players as you can and say f*** it.

There isn't a clear plan in place to tear down or compete.

The Pens have pushed their prospect pool up in rankings the last couple of seasons and this is when you take advantage of those lads and also cap space to add some decent pieces that can also help and grow with the team. I think they’re had enough “new additions” like Tomato, Novak, etc to be fine to keep spots open for youth to fight for. I really don’t care for Marner at all and hope he signs elsewhere but I also hope Dubas doesn’t stay stagnant with moves and dumps some of the Sully clowns and brings back a decent pieces or two to fight for spots.

I’ve been wanting Rust traded for 3 off seasons now, it’s ridiculous they haven’t done it yet and I’d rather see a youngster get the opportunities that twat gets handed to him on a silver platter because he was a Sullivan f*** boy.

 

[eXile3]

The Pens have pushed their prospect pool up in rankings the last couple of seasons and this is when you take advantage of those lads and also cap space to add some decent pieces that can also help and grow with the team. I think they’re had enough “new additions” like Tomato, Novak, etc to be fine to keep spots open for youth to fight for. I really don’t care for Marner at all and hope he signs elsewhere but I also hope Dubas doesn’t stay stagnant with moves and dumps some of the Sully clowns and brings back a decent pieces or two to fight for spots.

I’ve been wanting Rust traded for 3 off seasons now, it’s ridiculous they haven’t done it yet and I’d rather see a youngster get the opportunities that twat gets handed to him on a silver platter because he was a Sullivan f*** boy.

They have but it’s still not a top 10, even 15 prospect pool in the league.

Once we start using all these picks over the next three years I imagine that will change but nothing right now says we’re close to really rebuilding.

 

[Honour Over Glory]

They have but it’s still not a top 10, even 15 prospect pool in the league.

Once we start using all these picks over the next three years I imagine that will change but nothing right now says we’re close to really rebuilding.

I think the maturation of the 2024 picks will have the Pens up a few more spots, I wouldn’t be shocked to see them hit 17th from 20th with the development steps some of the prospects took.

Especially players like Pieniniemi, Howe, Brunicke, Murashov, Broz, Koivunen, Pickering, Ponomarev, McGroarty, etc.

And mate I’m not saying we’ll see 4-5 of those names as regulars next season, but a very good chance 1-2 could and more as the season wears on and the development goes well. I also think it’s going to be great to see the older prospects get a better shot at not being used like shit by an idiot coach. I want to see Poulin and Puustinen do well in camp and also get a proper shot and just not having to play an absolute garbage system and deployment is already a massive positive for everyone on the team.

Also I think based on the way they play, Broz and Hayes (Avery) could find their way onto the team sooner than blokes think. Both are fun to watch and even just getting a couple of games on the 4th line would be fun.

I was thinking if the team does plan to move Malkin to wing on his own line, Novak would be the right 2c for that assignment.

I'd love to see Rust dealt at the draft and the Pens sign Roslovic (I still hold out hope) as well as deal Lizotte and Dewar at the deadline.

I have no problem with Dubas approaching and even signing Marner, it just makes the rebuild more difficult in some ways and I'm not sure I'm confident enough that Dubas can thread that needle. We'll see though, I doubt Marner comes here.

I'd rather Dubas signed Duchene than Marner.

 

[Lust for Life]

Listen I'm not gonna complain if they sign a 100 point guy but it would feel a bit better if there was someone apparent who could finish those 60+ assists he can dish out

 

[Pens1566]

Saw a random rumor yesterday (twitter I think) that we're gonna target Tavares in FA. I threw up in my mouth a little bit.

 

[HandshakeLine]

Listen I'm not gonna complain if they sign a 100 point guy but it would feel a bit better if there was someone apparent who could finish those 60+ assists he can dish out

EXACTLY.

Like it's not a bad idea of we have even just one prospect ready to go, but we don't.

 

[Deport Ogie]

Saw a random rumor yesterday (twitter I think) that we're gonna target Tavares in FA. I threw up in my mouth a little bit.

I suspect he and Toronto work it out in the end for a significant decrease in cost but man, Tavares coming here makes very little sense for either party. So print the jerseys I guess.

 

[Le Magnifique 66]

Saw a random rumor yesterday (twitter I think) that we're gonna target Tavares in FA. I threw up in my mouth a little bit.

Sure, if it's a 1 year deal and he gets moved at the trade deadline...