Salary Cap: 24-25 Salary Thread Crosbicles Volume MXVI: End of season wrap up

[Pancakes]

I'm seriously questioning why I'm signing Marner now rather than trying to sign another guy like Marner in 2-4 years from now.

No guarantee another Marner quality player becomes available again for a while

 

[Sidney the Kidney]

Yeah the best way I can put it is this, I wouldn't hesitate to give Marner a 7 year deal at a good AAV that I think he'd still be worth at age ~32 and in the last 3-4 years of his deal. I wouldn't hesitate at all if he's coming in at like $12 million or $12.5 million with that. But LeBrun said earlier today that he's definitely coming in at above $13 million, and I can really see a team going full stupid in free agency and offering him a ridiculous amount. If he's coming in at above $13 or $14 million, I'm seriously questioning why I'm signing Marner now rather than trying to sign another guy like Marner in 2-4 years from now.

What did Panarin get when he signed with the Rangers? I could see Marner getting today's equivalent of that kind of money.

 

[Empoleon8771]

No guarantee another Marner quality player becomes available again for a while

I’d rather take my chances on getting a similar or slightly worse player tbh.

Last off-season, you had Guentzel essentially hit free agency. In 2022, you had Gaudreau hit free agency. It’s definitely not common, but it seems like you’ll get a guy of similar caliber once every 2 or so years in free agency.

 

[Big Friggin Dummy]

The contracts are gonna get bonkers in the next few years. McDavid's gonna get like $25M AAV.

It doesn't matter if this team misses out on Marner. He isn't good enough now to propel this team to anything worthwhile (no, I don't give a f*** about a week long "thanks for showing up, tee time's at 7am" playoff appearance), and he's gonna be well out of his prime by the time this team's ready to go for it again. And he's gonna probably push that timeline back a few years if he and Sid click well and this team ends up hovering around 15th overall in the draft.

Dumb move imo. A panicky, knee-jerk reaction by a team and fanbase that hasn't been truly bad in decades, and dreads the inevitable, and imo required, lumps of a proper rebuild.

 

[Empoleon8771]

What did Panarin get when he signed with the Rangers? I could see Marner getting today's equivalent of that kind of money.

I think it would be about $13.7 million if he got the same deal as Panarin, and due to the cap jumping a huge amount and more teams having money to spend, I think it’s possible he could top that.

Iirc Panarin was basically guaranteed to go to the Rangers, so there wasn’t as much of a bidding war as I think there will be for Marner.

 

[Pancakes]

I’d rather take my chances on getting a similar or slightly worse player tbh.

Last off-season, you had Guentzel essentially hit free agency. In 2022, you had Gaudreau hit free agency. It’s definitely not common, but it seems like you’ll get a guy of similar caliber once every 2 or so years in free agency.

I think you still give Marner a call. If he says no, so be it. But if a player like that is available you gotta do your due diligence and at least call him up.

 

[Big Friggin Dummy]

The cap's gonna jump to $113.5M by 2027-28. This team will have plenty of time and opportunity to swing trades for worthwhile players or try to snipe guys in FA or with offer sheets. Step one is building that foundation, and Marner isn't part of that equation.

Will be a pretty colossal mistake that puts an already miserable 5ish years of rebuild, optimistically, to like a 7+ year situation. Just dumb. /shrug

 

[Peat]

I think it's a fair point that you can set your clock on high skill wings with blemishes coming available in some form or another.

What is significantly rarer is the high skill wing with blemishes that you can actually get your hands on. Whether it's can't meet the trade price, can't persuade them to sign there, temporarily out of cap space, just got outbidded... plenty of ways.

As such, I'm down with checking in with Marner. I can see lots of reasons to be wary of the dude, but if he's actually interested, that part is sufficiently rare that I'd be interested back.

 

[Big Friggin Dummy]

I like Marner, fwiw. Big fan of the player and hope he kills it wherever he ends up.

But he's absolutely not a guy you gotta have at any cost if you're a team with basically nothing. I keep comparing him to Phil in that I think he needs to get the f*** outta that shithole in Toronto, and he's best suited to be an extra layer as opposed to a core piece with a ton of responsibility and pressure.

I dunno if a landing spot like that exists for him this summer unless he's willing to shave off a few million AAV tbh. He'll either get top dollar with a bottom feeder or he'll be so sick of losing and the pressure of Toronto that he'll sacrifice some bank to find the best situation.

Either way I think he's gonna be getting Rantanen money as an absolute baseline.

 

[Gurglesons]

I like Marner, fwiw. Big fan of the player and hope he kills it wherever he ends up.

But he's absolutely not a guy you gotta have at any cost if you're a team with basically nothing. I keep comparing him to Phil in that I think he needs to get the f*** outta that shithole in Toronto, and he's best suited to be an extra layer as opposed to a core piece with a ton of responsibility and pressure.

I dunno if a landing spot like that exists for him this summer unless he's willing to shave off a few million AAV tbh. He'll either get top dollar with a bottom feeder or he'll be so sick of losing and the pressure of Toronto that he'll sacrifice some bank to find the best situation.

Either way I think he's gonna be getting Rantanen money as an absolute baseline.

I mean Rangers had basically nothing when they drafted Laf after signing Marner.

I don't see the big issue with adding Marner to our group.

 

[Big Friggin Dummy]

I mean Rangers had basically nothing when they drafted Laf after signing Marner.

I don't see the big issue with adding Marner to our group.

They jumped like 10 spots in the lotto and don't have shit to show for it since getting Artemi "I really wanna live in Manhattan" Panarin, and already seem to be crashing and burning after 5 years of sorta relevance. /shrug

 

[Gurglesons]

They jumped like 10 spots in the lotto and don't have shit to show for it since getting Artemi "I really wanna live in Manhattan" Panarin, and already seem to be crashing and burning after 5 years of sorta relevance. /shrug

2 ECFs in 5 years is no shit to show for it?

 

[Pancakes]

I mean Rangers had basically nothing when they drafted Laf after signing Marner.

I don't see the big issue with adding Marner to our group.

You always add a talent like that if you have a chance to do so for free imo.

 

[Honour Over Glory]

How big is your smile gonna be the first time the Rangers blow a 3 goal lead against the Pens trying to play Sully sit on the lead defense?

Likely my reaction…

 

[Honour Over Glory]

They jumped like 10 spots in the lotto and don't have shit to show for it since getting Artemi "I really wanna live in Manhattan" Panarin, and already seem to be crashing and burning after 5 years of sorta relevance. /shrug

More like Artemi “I steal women’s phones and try to sexually assault them” Panarin

 

[Big Friggin Dummy]

2 ECFs in 5 years is no shit to show for it?

I'm sure the franchise and fanbase will cherish that for years.

 

[Gurglesons]

I'm sure the franchise and fanbase will cherish that for years.

Do you think it's easy to win Stanley Cups?

You just tank and get a Sid or a Mario and it comes?

 

[Honour Over Glory]

He doesn't look even close to being happy enough about that.

 

[Big Friggin Dummy]

Do you think it's easy to win Stanley Cups?

You just tank and get a Sid or a Mario and it comes?

No. But we're just seeing the Lundqvist era play out again cuz the Rangers can't help themselves, and I don't wanna try and follow in those footsteps cuz a shiny new toy hit the market.

This team's not gonna be able to cut corners.. Signing a 28 year old supporting cast guy like Marner to a colossal deal because you're terrified of taking your lumps for a few years to try and build a legit team is the definition of donkeybrains GMing. /shrug

Dude's gonna be like 33 by the time this team has any sorta legit foundation in place to try and start competing again.

 

[Honour Over Glory]

Do you think it's easy to win Stanley Cups?

You just tank and get a Sid or a Mario and it comes?

If Florida wins it all this year again, then since 2015-16 3 teams would have won back 2 back cups.

Doesn't mean the Cup is easy, but it is weird for the NHL in the cap era. Teams have won multiple cups in a span of a few years, like the Kings and Hawks, but to see:

Penguins
Penguins
Capitals
Blues
Tampa
Tampa
Colorado
Vegas
Florida
Then it’d be Florida again, this years playoffs is the lamest one since the Tampa cups.

 

[Gurglesons]

If Florida wins it all this year again, then since 2015-16 3 teams would have won back 2 back cups.

Doesn't mean the Cup is easy, but it is weird for the NHL in the cap era. Teams have won multiple cups in a span of a few years, like the Kings and Hawks, but to see:

Penguins
Penguins
Capitals
Blues
Tampa
Tampa
Colorado
Vegas
Florida
Then it’d be Florida again, this years playoffs is the lamest one since the Tampa cups.

And what is the lesson from Florida and Vegas and to an extent Colorado?

Grab elite pieces while you can and figure it out from there.

 

[Sidney the Kidney]

No. But we're just seeing the Lundqvist era play out again cuz the Rangers can't help themselves, and I don't wanna try and follow in those footsteps cuz a shiny new toy hit the market.

This team's not gonna be able to cut corners.. Signing a 28 year old supporting cast guy like Marner to a colossal deal because you're terrified of taking your lumps for a few years to try and build a legit team is the definition of donkeybrains GMing. /shrug

Dude's gonna be like 33 by the time this team has any sorta legit foundation in place to try and start competing again.

When we draft McKenna next year, he's going to need a high end winger to play with.

 

[Gurglesons]

No. But we're just seeing the Lundqvist era play out again cuz the Rangers can't help themselves, and I don't wanna try and follow in those footsteps cuz a shiny new toy hit the market.

This team's not gonna be able to cut corners.. Signing a 28 year old supporting cast guy like Marner to a colossal deal because you're terrified of taking your lumps for a few years to try and build a legit team is the definition of donkeybrains GMing. /shrug

Dude's gonna be like 33 by the time this team has any sorta legit foundation in place to try and start competing again.

Not sure you can build a legit team through tanking in the draft anymore.

Certainly haven't seen it recently.

The mid 2000s Penguins model is not how you win championships in today's NHL.

 

[Big Friggin Dummy]

Not sure you can build a legit team through tanking in the draft anymore.

Certainly haven't seen it recently.

The mid 2000s Penguins model is not how you win championships in today's NHL.

Why does everyone think "tanking" means landing 1st overall or a total failure. You want to be higher on the draft board--1st overall is great, but it's not 1st overall or nothing. Most of the time I'd say the dude picked 1st overall doesn't even end up being the best player picked in the top 5.

I'll take a handful of years of losing with a purpose as opposed to this dogshit we've had for half a decade where this team's feeding the fanbase yinzer slop while spinning their tires in no man's land--too bad to have any hope of making any noise, and not bad enough to be landing those potential foundation stone prospects to build around.

But hey, Kessel 2.0 (this is hyperbole, Marner is better than Kessel in every aspect but he's not a foundational player and he's already 28) is available so we gotta add that guy to a team that's dead in the water and gonna bottom out regardless in two years when Sid retires. Then we're left with a guy who can't do shit on his own for years 3-7 of his deal. Sounds cool! Very smart!

 

[Gurglesons]

Why does everyone think "tanking" means landing 1st overall or a total failure. You want to be higher on the draft board--1st overall is great, but it's not 1st overall or nothing. Most of the time I'd say the dude picked 1st overall doesn't even end up being the best player picked in the top 5.

I'll take a handful of years of losing with a purpose as opposed to this dogshit we've had for half a decade where this team's feeding the fanbase yinzer slop while spinning their tires in no man's land--too bad to have any hope of making any noise, and not bad enough to be landing those potential foundation stone prospects to build around.

But hey, Kessel 2.0 (this is hyperbole, Marner is better than Kessel in every aspect but he's not a foundational player and he's already 28) is available so we gotta add that guy to a team that's dead in the water and gonna bottom out regardless in two years when Sid retires. Then we're left with a guy who can't do shit on his own for years 3-7 of his deal. Sounds cool! Very smart!

Getting a Marner locked in as the cap exponentially grows is a great idea.

I doubt he signs here, but acting like it's a dumb move is silly.

This team can easily finish 1st overall in a draft just like the Islanders just did.

If you can sell Rakell or Rust for a 1st + and get Marner you're allocating assets while also signing a piece that could help us turn things around while Sid is here with a little luck.

That's the way to formulate a good team in today's NHL. Keep your 1sts and gather as many as you can for players like Marner when they become available.

Marner will be an elite player for the next 5 seasons at minimum.

If you can get that for nothing, you have to do it.