Salary Cap: 24-25 Salary Thread Crosbicles Volume MXVI: End of season wrap up

[Gurglesons]

It still isn't clear to me what this team is attempting to do. I heard all the Dubas-speak and have kind of tuned it out bc most of it is press conference BS.

Are we trying to make the playoffs next year or not?
Are we trying to be bad enough to get a high draft pick?
Are we trying to play something between the 2 above?

There is no plan. It's just to do whatever makes Dubas look good.

Mike Sullivan being fired is a start. Reality is you just have to wait and see who the next coach they hire is and what they do this summer to gather any understanding of where they are going.

 

[Turin]

The vitriol that Marner gets is honestly really odd to me.

I get that he's paid well and expectations are a bitch and all that but man... you'd think dude was single-handedly and very intentionally derailing that entire franchise the way people talk. Hell most years I'm every bit as impressed with Marner if not moreso than Matthews. Certainly more than that donut Tavares.

His contract negotiations were a very public dispute, and then he very clearly wilted in the playoffs for years. Him pushing for a ton of money immediately is the catalyst that screwed the Leafs cap. I like Marner as a player a ton but it’s totally understandable for Toronto fans to be done with him.

 

[Big Friggin Dummy]

re: marner what were the off ice incidents?

It was either Friedman or CJ who were talking about it recently. Lunatics losing their minds on Marner while he's out walking his dog, waiting for him to leave the arena, etc.

The vitriol that Marner gets is honestly really odd to me.

I get that he's paid well and expectations are a bitch and all that but man... you'd think dude was single-handedly and very intentionally derailing that entire franchise the way people talk. Hell most years I'm every bit as impressed with Marner if not moreso than Matthews. Certainly more than that donut Tavares.

It's gonna be interesting to see how Matthews does without Marner attached to his him, feeding him pucks, and doing all the defensive work.

 

[CheckingLineCenter]

It still isn't clear to me what this team is attempting to do. I heard all the Dubas-speak and have kind of tuned it out bc most of it is press conference BS.

Are we trying to make the playoffs next year or not?
Are we trying to be bad enough to get a high draft pick?
Are we trying to play something between the 2 above?

 

[Turin]

Toronto fans are lunatics and babies, that's why they treat Marner like shit.

The fans 100% deserve the loser franchise they have.

Penguins fans would have done the same with a player who had a public contract dispute for max money and then never won or elevated his game in big moments. They booed Jagr for a decade for leaving a bankrupt team after winning Cups and scoring titles.

 

[BlindWillyMcHurt]

His contract negotiations were a very public dispute, and then he very clearly wilted in the playoffs for years. Him pushing for a ton of money immediately is the catalyst that screwed the Leafs cap. I like Marner as a player a ton but it’s totally understandable for Toronto fans to be done with him.

Marner's playoff numbers are not exactly inspiring. But I've seen that story reverse itself so many times on a new team and new circumstances that I won't judge him as a choker. The MAPLE LEAFS have wilted in the playoffs for years.

The money and contract dispute thing I get. That can leave a sour taste in the fans mouths. But it's not like that team and it's fanbase doesn't have plenty of high dollar problems they can choose to pick on. Marner and Nylander always seem to be the targets or at least that's my perception.

 

[Empoleon8771]

Penguins fans would have done the same with a player who had a public contract dispute for max money and then never won or elevated his game in big moments. They booed Jagr for a decade for leaving a bankrupt team after winning Cups and scoring titles.

Lol they literally wouldn't have done that.

Massive difference between booing Jagr in games and threatening Marner while he's walking his dog.

 

[Turin]

Lol they literally wouldn't have done that.

Massive difference between booing Jagr in games and threatening Marner while he's walking his dog.

A guy yelled at him “why haven’t you signed?” They didn’t threaten him. A yinzer is absolutely capable of doing that

 

[BlindWillyMcHurt]

Yeah man Penguins fans had plenty of issues with Jagr and many still do to this day but like... lets not lump us in with Toronto fans. Those people are lunatics regardless of how Dangle wants to frame it. Penguins fans couldn't even get up the gumption to publicly boo the very stale and obviously checked-out coach.

 

[Turin]

Marner's playoff numbers are not exactly inspiring. But I've seen that story reverse itself so many times on a new team and new circumstances that I won't judge him as a choker. The MAPLE LEAFS have wilted in the playoffs for years.

The money and contract dispute thing I get. That can leave a sour taste in the fans mouths. But it's not like that team and it's fanbase doesn't have plenty of high dollar problems they can choose to pick on. Marner and Nylander always seem to be the targets or at least that's my perception.

Marner gets the shit because he asked for the sun and moon early and never delivered. In fact he’s one of the few players in the league who actively looks nervous in big games. He doesn’t just elevate he gets worse. He’ll be better somewhere else but he gets the shit because he wanted the dollars that come with that.

 

[Empoleon8771]

A guy yelled at him “why haven’t you signed?” They didn’t threaten him. A yinzer is absolutely capable of doing that

That wasn't the only incident.

“And Mitch kind of bristled at his family being brought into it. And then on top of that, in the six years that followed, when the playoff success wasn't there, you know, a lot of it was aimed his way. And I will say, much of it justified, but I'm aware of a few incidents that Mitch had to deal with, and there's probably more that I don't know about, where it bordered on harassment.”

“And it was very uncomfortable for him and people he cares about. And, you know, there's even an incident after this game that we're not going to get into here because I don't want to give it any more life. But, you know, people, it crossed the line a lot of times with some of the, you know, whatever we want to call them, the fanatics and the fan base, the crazies that, you know, people almost took it too personally, I think.”

Adam Wylde on the SDPN podcast says one incident involved people throwing garbage, golf balls and Montreal Canadiens gear on Marner’s property

 

[BlindWillyMcHurt]

Marner gets the shit because he asked for the sun and moon early and never delivered. In fact he’s one of the few players in the league who actively looks nervous in big games. He doesn’t just elevate he gets worse. He’ll be better somewhere else but he gets the shit because he wanted the dollars that come with that.

He hasn't delivered in big games as of yet and that's a valid complaint. I just don't get why he seems to be the focal point for that fanbase and it's irritation. The captain is in the same boat and everyone seems mum about Tavares and his giant moronic contract versus production at least compared to Marner.

If it's just a matter of Marner wanting his bag at the time and being public about it whatever... I don't care. I have even less love for league GMs and owners than I do entitled players.

 

[Gurglesons]

Marner gets the shit because he asked for the sun and moon early and never delivered. In fact he’s one of the few players in the league who actively looks nervous in big games. He doesn’t just elevate he gets worse. He’ll be better somewhere else but he gets the shit because he wanted the dollars that come with that.

He was on pace for like 90+ pts every year of his contract.

Let's not forget Sidney Crosby and Evgeni Malkin were no shows in the playoffs multiple years in a row throughout their mid 20s too.

Suddenly, the Penguins actually got roster depth and then they won two cups.

At least, we've got the GM that couldn't get Toronto over the hump as our GM lol.

 

[cookthebooks]

mitch marner for his career is 0.9 ppg in the playoffs vs 1.1 in the regular season, but the dropoff is really in his goalscoring. still hard to describe that as 'no showing'

 

[Turin]

That wasn't the only incident.




Adam Wylde on the SDPN podcast says one incident involved people throwing garbage, golf balls and Montreal Canadiens gear on Marner’s property (timestamp 1:36:58)

Sure, but you said somebody threatened him walking his dog and that wasn’t a story.

Pens fans haven’t had a star player/core completely fail ever. I don’t think the holier than thou thing applies. There’s always psychos in every fan base who take it too seriously and Marners agent brought the heat on his client. Both parties are to blame in the divorce and Mitch’s camp isn’t totally innocent at all. If Malkins agent went to the media to say Shero was lowballing him and how he deserves more than Crosby and threatened to go back to Russia, and then the Pens never won from 2007 to 2015, never even went to an eastern conference final - do you think he wouldn’t be absolutely vilified?

 

[Turin]

He was on pace for like 90+ pts every year of his contract.

Let's not forget Sidney Crosby and Evgeni Malkin were no shows in the playoffs multiple years in a row throughout their mid 20s too.

Suddenly, the Penguins actually got roster depth and then they won two cups.

At least, we've got the GM that couldn't get Toronto over the hump as our GM lol.

He has less goals in his career in the playoffs than Guentzel had in his rookie year. I’m not having a contrarian debate about how Marner akshually is good in the playoffs with you. Sid and Geno proved themselves in the playoffs immediately.

 

[PensFutures]

It was either Friedman or CJ who were talking about it recently. Lunatics losing their minds on Marner while he's out walking his dog, waiting for him to leave the arena, etc.

Wasnt Marner the one who got carjacked last summer?

 

[JackFr]

It looks like he was okay in Colorado and then tanked a bit in Buffalo. I would assume at face value it's a "mediocre player on a good team" to a "mediocre player on a bad team".

Not quite, the numbers crashed in COL before he went to Buffalo. They've stayed bad in Buffalo because the second he plays with anybody but Dahlin he becomes a total and utter liability. He played 50+ minutes with six defencemen and was below 45% xGoal share with every single one but Dahlin.

We need to be realistic here that despite his skill this would be a reclamation process in many ways.

I'd also add Montour to our curated list of potential Byram comps.

 

[Big Friggin Dummy]

Booing a guy on the ice and approaching him while he's out walking his dog or getting groceries or whatever are completely different. You don't know if the person approaching you, all screaming and shit, has any kinda weapon. Sports fans are some of the most unhinged lunatics around. Marner missed like a week of training camp when he was in negotiations. Nylander sat out until December or some shit didn't he? Marner also got carjacked, though I don't know/think that had anything to do with anything but him being rich.

I'd leave too. Kiss my ass, f***in' losers.

 

[Turin]

mitch marner for his career is 0.9 ppg in the playoffs vs 1.1 in the regular season, but the dropoff is really in his goalscoring. still hard to describe that as 'no showing'

He drops below half a point per game in games 5-7. Not the end of the world but not what you want if he’s your second highest paid player making over double digits.

 

[Turin]

Wasnt Marner the one who got carjacked last summer?

Yes. That was a ransom thug though lol not some fan.

 

[CheckingLineCenter]

three things are true

1) depth getting smoked every year and providing zero secondary scoring kills them

2) you pay 4 guys that much — they gotta be better and compensate more for weaker depth

3) completely loony market

 

[BlindWillyMcHurt]

three things are true

1) depth getting smoked every year and providing zero secondary scoring kills them

2) you pay 4 guys that much — they gotta be better and compensate more for weaker depth

3) completely loony market

lol I don't HATE Dangle or anything but once he started going on and on about how quiet and polite Toronto fans AKSHULLY are and how pressure shouldn't be a problem up there I turned it off.

 

[Gurglesons]

He drops below half a point per game in games 5-7. Not the end of the world but not what you want if he’s your second highest paid player making over double digits.

You are using the argument that people use against Sid to prove Patrick Kane is a better playoff performer just so you know.

 

[CheckingLineCenter]

lol I don't HATE Dangle or anything but once he started going on and on about how quiet and polite Toronto fans AKSHULLY are I turned it off.

Don’t worry. I hate him enough for two of us.