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Salary Cap: 24-25 Salary Thread Crosbicles Volume MXVI: End of season wrap up

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molon labe said:
The team swung and missed and have played media games ever since. That's all.

Dubas has touted nearly every angle there is from keeping youth in AHL together to build rapport, to "turning things around quickly to try and compete sooner than later", to looking into trades for win-now guys, to bringing youth up to see what they have... It's not remarkably consistent whatsoever.

Flat out, if Marner is available there's zero chance Dubas doesn't try to get him and just try and make things work. Frankly it's not all that difficult with such a sharply rising cap and competition that really isn't all that great.

If he doesn't land him and the team looks even worse next year - they'll probably claim it was their plan all along (seems on brand and not uncommon territory for GMs)....but if Marner is available they'll absolutely get their gloves on and pretending otherwise is probably thinking a little too narrowly.

To turn things around - You're gonna have Vegas ready to deal...maybe Toronto if they fire folks... and a number of other clubs. You can get creative pretty easily. Will they? No clue based on the sample size we've seen...but I'll be genuinely shocked to see the same crap ran back next year now that Sully is gone.
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Dubas explicitly said that he wasn't going to rush this team into just making them get back to the playoffs, he's putting no timeline on the team being good again and wants to build up the team into a team that can actually contend for the cup. This is what he said at both the end of season press conference and also the Sullivan firing conference.

This team is rebuilding. 95% of posters here have accepted that, but there are some who just refuse to acknowledge that reality. He may make some additions to the team today, like trading for Rossi or Byram to fill a long-term need, but the focus is clearly on building the team up to be good again in a few years, not this year.
 
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Yeah to make it clear, I'm absolutely not saying no to signing Marner if he's interested in coming here. Even if they do bring him in, they're still building for 2-4 years down the line and not this year. If they're bringing in Marner, it should come with selling someone like Rakell or Rust.

Any additions they should be making should be one of:

1. A long-term need that will still be here in 2-4 years when the team is ready to be good again
2. A short-term need that you can flip for more value than you paid down the line
3. 1 year rentals that you'll flip at the deadline next year

Someone like Rossi would fit in #1, while someone like Hague would fall in #2.
 
CheckingLineCenter said:
Toronto fans are just insane people

Matthews B game playing hurt all year is near p/pg in playoffs and outscoring opponents 11 to 7. Was he good? No. but other markets you’re like “wow we have a guy who can still help us win shifts with his B game, he gutted through something all year and we made our deepest run in a long time”. In Toronto (not exactly the standard of playoff success) they want his head.

Was Marner great? No. Bone headed plays, trying to do too much. But again, point per game and outscored opponents at 5v5 with him on the ice.

I don’t understand how you watch those games and think “we need less elite talent and goals”. Meanwhile the D literally couldn’t handle the Florida forecheck and the depth got killed.

They need changes— but I’ll happily take any of the “core 4” here lmao. It’s same thing as Phil.
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They have guys who are all built for the same type of success. The insanity is having the money to afford 4 houses and choosing all 4 on the same coast. Hurricane comes and you're SOL.

None of Matthews/Marner/Tavares/Nylander seem to score uniquely to one another.

That's pretty much all it is. That said, with a hugely rising cap - the irony is that there are 3 great players on that list who you could completely build around. Problem for them is that it's really too late to do that. If they positioned a little better 5 years ago they'd be fine. People shouted from the rooftops (more than once) that they had no uniqueness or variance in their lineup but they were blinded by the ability to have so much starpower and continue to be.

I'm with you - and having just one or two of those names on your roster yesteryear is coveted. 4 seems like video game stuff. But then the playoffs come and your star power gets punched in the face and there's nothing left. Sure they have bottom 6 and have tried different guys on the roster but their offensive power all comes from seemingly the same source.

Not that I want to armchair GM the Leafs (although it's sort of more fun than this lot).... but like - Matthews line 1 Brady Tkachuk line 2 and shore up the rest is a hell of a lot better of a playoff roster than guys they've got now who might put up more points but all show up / disappear at the same time.
 
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Marchand-Crosby would obviously be awesome for a season, but I don't see it unless Marchand:

A) wins the Cup this year and wants $$$
B) Florida can't re-sign him

Is "he gets to play with Sid and miss the playoffs" really a good enough reason to come here?
 
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Trade Rakell & Rust. Sign Marchand (1-year) & Marner (7-years).

I like both Rakell & Rust, but I'm just tired and bored of this team. Give me something different with M&M and play young players.


Also:

​

Full Name: Brad Marchand

(Little Ball of Hate, Marchy, Nose Face Killah, Squirrel, Rat, Tomahawk, Brat, Bad Brad, Marshmont, Honey Badger, Precious Little Angel)

:laugh:

 
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It feels like Marner could be a CBJ/Gaudrea whereas it doesn't matter where you are in a rebuild, if a player of that caliber wants to be on your team for whatever goofy ass reason you make it happen. That rarely happens but is not beyond the realm of possibity.

I have to think either it's a player that has personal connections, wants to be THE MAN in a new direction for the team, or some other cause such as Marner being SO taken with the idea of playing with 87 that he sacrifices elsewise to make that happen. Which might be kind of dumb given the uncertainty around how much longer Sid is even here but it ain't going to be 7 years.
 
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Empoleon8771 said:
Dubas explicitly said that he wasn't going to rush this team into just making them get back to the playoffs, he's putting no timeline on the team being good again and wants to build up the team into a team that can actually contend for the cup. This is what he said at both the end of season press conference and also the Sullivan firing conference.

This team is rebuilding. 95% of posters here have accepted that, but there are some who just refuse to acknowledge that reality. He may make some additions to the team today, like trading for Rossi or Byram to fill a long-term need, but the focus is clearly on building the team up to be good again in a few years, not this year.
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There are fans that would sign Jagr and Fleury to play for the team next year - from a mentality that it would make the team better. People can have those opinions.

To your former - that feeds the point and confusion from fans. I think you're somehow missing this and that's why I'm replying - [unless you're trolling which hasn't seemed to be the case over the years]: Dubas has shifted his tone and message several different times. He signed guys to compete 'now'. Then traded for futures. Then signed for the here and now. Then floated that youth should stay put. Then said they should get a shot.

Most recently? Sure - I agree (it was said - his words) he's not rushing. But Marner comes willing to sign? That language gets thrown in the trash. Dude is flying by the seat of his pants.

Dubas isn't Yzerplanning anything here. Not even close from what we've seen [and not saying he should - it's a point to say any talk about masterplanning anything is ridiclous]. Dude has changed his [words] about 7 times in 2 years. I don't care now that Sullivan is finally gone. But I'm not defending the guy for his lack of consistency.
 
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I've seen some talk about trading EK, and I don't mind it, but... where can we see him realistically waiving his NMC for? I assume it's gonna be for straight up cup contenders. Is there a fit anywhere?
 
Lust for Life said:
I've seen some talk about trading EK, and I don't mind it, but... where can we see him realistically waiving his NMC for? I assume it's gonna be for straight up cup contenders. Is there a fit anywhere?
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HandshakeLine said:
If EK only wants to play on a cup contender, I got bad news for him regarding next year's prospects.
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At $5m I'm sure there's a fit somewhere.
 
Carolina has already been beaten to death as a Karlsson destination, but I wonder if you can make the cap gymnastics work to make Karlsson to Edmonton work as well. Edmonton doesn't have a ton of cap space for next year, they're sitting at $9.5 million with Bouchard still needing to be re-signed. However, shipping Kane out and adding Karlsson at $5 million would make the cap work pretty easily. The Oilers defense would be set up pretty well with:

Ekholm-Bouchard
Walman-Karlsson
Nurse-Kulak

And they'd still have about $9 million to add to the forward group. The larger issue though is that they have no 1st this year or next year and don't have a very strong prospect pool, so I'm not seeing an easy trade package to throw together there.

Although Savoie did have a very good rookie year, so how would you feel about Kane, Savoie and a 2026 2nd for Karlsson at $5 million?
 
Turin said:
Marner had like 100 points this year did he not?
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He did. I wasn't talking about Marner in the RS though. I was comparing him and Phil as Leafs in the PO.
plaidchuck said:
A 1st for Rust? Lol come on now, someone was celebrating the leafs loss a bit too much 😆
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If I'm the Leafs, I see if JT will come back at $5mil and then I'd throw money at Ehlers and I would be asking about Rakell. If they are willing to come down off Marner, they should find a way to have three legit lines. Marchy-Lundell-Lusty absolutely murdered them. Toronto needs at least one bottom 6 line that can offer them an advantage.

Knies-Matthews-Nylander
Ehlers-Tavares-Domi
McMann-Laughton-Rakell
Holmberg-Kampf-Jarnkrok

Something like that.
CheckingLineCenter said:
Toronto fans are just insane people

Matthews B game playing hurt all year is near p/pg in playoffs and outscoring opponents 11 to 7. Was he good? No. but other markets you’re like “wow we have a guy who can still help us win shifts with his B game, he gutted through something all year and we made our deepest run in a long time”. In Toronto (not exactly the standard of playoff success) they want his head.

Was Marner great? No. Bone headed plays, trying to do too much. But again, point per game and outscored opponents at 5v5 with him on the ice.

I don’t understand how you watch those games and think “we need less elite talent and goals”. Meanwhile the D literally couldn’t handle the Florida forecheck and the depth got killed.

They need changes— but I’ll happily take any of the “core 4” here lmao. It’s same thing as Phil.
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You hate to blame goaltending but Woll did them no favors. If I'm the Leafs I'm feeling similar to how we felt in 2022 when we lost with Dominique. While there were certainly problems up and down the line up, something about losing your starter and then losing the series with your backup doesn't always sit well.

To me though, Leafs are at the 2014 Penguins point. They have Neal. You can feel this "this ain't it" feeling when you watch them play. You know Florida has "it" - that culture and intestinal fortitude needed to make it through four rounds. It's RS vs PO hockey. They need to go get their Hornqvist, their Cullen, their Bonino, etc. They have step 1 in Knies. Now is the time to take the next steps.
 
Empoleon8771 said:
If they're not taking back money, that's probably about all they'll get. If they're taking back money, that will increase the return.
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NMC much bigger issue

What happens when he only waives for one team and they’re like “we’re kinda good over here bro… we’ll take him for free but we’re not paying up”
 
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put it this way- look at Marchand

Better “rep”, more flexible contract clause (M-NTC vs NMC), less cap hit, less term, 50% retained

Return: Conditional 2nd three drafts out (that now will be a 1st actually I believe due to conditions being met)

I think yall are significantly overestimating what EK is getting back in a trade.
 
I’m still in an alternate universe where we kept Jake, fired Sully then, traded for Rantanen, and will sign Marner on our way to compete for another Cup.

Not this one where we’re rebuilding/retooling/pivoting all under this nebulous goal of getting younger.
 
CheckingLineCenter said:
NMC much bigger issue

What happens when he only waives for one team and they’re like “we’re kinda good over here bro… we’ll take him for free but we’re not paying up”
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The Penguins just keep him then? Karlsson isn't demanding a trade as far as we know, they can just hold onto him and trade him down the line.

I also don't really see any reason to believe that Karlsson is only willing to waive his NMC to go to 1 team. That wasn't his mindset when he came to the Penguins in the first place and I doubt he'd block trades to other contenders just to stay on the Penguins.
 
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