Salary Cap: 24-25 Salary Thread Crosbicles Volume MXVI: End of season wrap up
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Big Friggin Dummy
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- Feb 22, 2019
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I think the big thing boosting Rakell and Rust's value is that they're relatively productive guys at a fraction of the cost of what we're gonna be seeing guys get in FA over the next few years.
With the cap jumping like $20M over the next three summers, you're staring down this FA period where Marner's probably gonna be making north of $13M AAV this summer, Ehlers is gonna be getting a raise on his $6M AAV, Boeser's probably gonna be getting like $8M AAV, Tavares is probably making more than Boeser even at 35 just by virtue of being a center. A guy like Granlund is almost assuredly getting a raise. Who knows what happens with Bennett or Marchand? Neither probably comes cheap, regardless of how the rest of the Panthers' playoff run goes.
Suddenly, a dude like Rakell or Rust, who is making $5M AAV for three more seasons looks a whole lot more attractive if you're looking to add some depth to your middle 6.
With the cap jumping like $20M over the next three summers, you're staring down this FA period where Marner's probably gonna be making north of $13M AAV this summer, Ehlers is gonna be getting a raise on his $6M AAV, Boeser's probably gonna be getting like $8M AAV, Tavares is probably making more than Boeser even at 35 just by virtue of being a center. A guy like Granlund is almost assuredly getting a raise. Who knows what happens with Bennett or Marchand? Neither probably comes cheap, regardless of how the rest of the Panthers' playoff run goes.
Suddenly, a dude like Rakell or Rust, who is making $5M AAV for three more seasons looks a whole lot more attractive if you're looking to add some depth to your middle 6.
- Jun 13, 2010
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Phil was nearly PPG before coming here. So is Marner. Wonder what Phiol was like in those first rounds? 13g in 22gp is slightly better than his 2016 run.
AuroraBorealis
Back-to-back hater
Yes, while also being terrific defensively, as always. Takes like no penalties. Top PK'er.
He's definitely one of the best 2-way Forwards in the league. You just can't trust his mentality in the playoffs.
He'd be good for like a Chicago or San Jose or something. Make them more respectable.
Probably can accelerate getting back into the playoffs. You just can't have him as your core leader when you're there.
Big Friggin Dummy
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Marner's a better player than Phil was at any point in his career imo, and he'll probably have a similar chip on his shoulder to prove himself once he's outta Toronto. But I think Phil was able to thrive because he went to a place where he was a third wave type of addition as opposed to being the focus of a team's structure. I think Marner's probably gotta find a similar landing spot if he can, which will likely cost him some big money in FA but after a decade wasting away in that shithole organization, he may want to win more than he wants to cash in on a colossal deal for his last big contract.
Either way, I think he's still gettin' a massive contract. Just depends on how massive, and whether he wants a better shot to win or if all he's after is that extra $15M or so over the lifetime of the deal.
Either way, I think he's still gettin' a massive contract. Just depends on how massive, and whether he wants a better shot to win or if all he's after is that extra $15M or so over the lifetime of the deal.
DesertPenguin
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Malkinstheman
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I think you're getting one of those things and it ain't gonna be Rust. At most I'm expecting EK to be traded. Don't agree with it but that's what it feels likeHow about instead of doing the dumbest possible shit imaginable that'll continue to set this team back years from relevance, for the sake of getting a 4-1 or 4-0 playoff showing, the team just trades EK and Rakell this summer and gets a haul for Rust at the TDL next season, and commits to actually building a team worth a damn for the foreseeable future.
plaidchuck
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Jacob
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- Feb 27, 2002
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Marner's still near a PPG in the playoffs. I wouldn't be worried about that if I was another team. No city is like Toronto, and no supporting cast is like Toronto's.
Marner is an elite point producer that plays a very strong two-way game. It would be nice if the was bigger and more physical, but that's complaining that a superstar isn't a generational talent. If he's available for anything less than 16MM AAV I sign him and worry about the implications for the rebuild later.
No way the Pens can sign him for 15 million AAV with a rebuild coming. The risk is Sid is gone and he lacks a center to help drive the play. Rakell for 5 million is a steal. He is a top RW and can play LW as well. Dubas will not move him unless it is just a offer he can't pass up.
Randy Butternubs
Eat the Sock
Empoleon8771
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I'd still easily sign Marner if he wanted to come here, but I'll admit Marner's consistent flame outs in the playoffs do make me a bit uneasy for him being the face of the franchise and mentor for young guys for after Crosby retires. His stats in elimination games are atrocious:
2025: 0 goals and 3 assists in 5 games, -6
2024: 0 goals and 1 assist in 3 games, even
2023: 1 goal and 2 assists in 4 games, +4
2022: 0 goals and 1 assist in 2 games, even
2021: 0 goals and 1 assist in 3 games, even
Is this really the guy you want to throw huge money at? A guy with 1 goal in his last 17 elimination games? I love Marner's talent and I know this team is a long way off from actually competing in the playoffs again, but he's basically going to set the market for contracts for the next core and I'm not sure that Marner is the guy you want setting that market. Same thing that happened with Toronto with signing Tavares to that huge deal.
2025: 0 goals and 3 assists in 5 games, -6
2024: 0 goals and 1 assist in 3 games, even
2023: 1 goal and 2 assists in 4 games, +4
2022: 0 goals and 1 assist in 2 games, even
2021: 0 goals and 1 assist in 3 games, even
Is this really the guy you want to throw huge money at? A guy with 1 goal in his last 17 elimination games? I love Marner's talent and I know this team is a long way off from actually competing in the playoffs again, but he's basically going to set the market for contracts for the next core and I'm not sure that Marner is the guy you want setting that market. Same thing that happened with Toronto with signing Tavares to that huge deal.
molon labe
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I've always found it funny the mecca of hockey is so ignorant to hockey.
Assemble just points and talent then both scratch their collective head and run it back due to ____ insert excuse [they were close, puck luck, goaltending, coaching, GM, better team who did XYZ, this player or that player didn't show up...etc.]. As if the formula is to have all your money tied into a single style of play and the rest is purely luck.
Pens were getting close with the Sullivan / collective Sullivan brand. But still...some of these front offices are so high on their own brand it's silly. Especially when the ego is adjacent to failure.
Not to get into geopolitics - but a good reference lay within a certain very, very large country - with plenty of smarts - who tend to innovate nothing and try and copy or buy everything. Toronto is reactionary to whatever 'won' the cup and never seem to focus on what might win it. They need grit so they get a fighter who can't score. They want consistency but don't look beyond the regular season or top 6 (perhaps they can't). It is what it is. Media is already him hawing over "what else dey gun do wit marner money huh!?"
I won't be surprised to see them not blowing it up....or whatever their version of it being replacing apples with apples. They feel close - and the thing for them is that I feel the east is in its weakest state in many many years...and they still aren't getting it done.
molon labe
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Empoleon8771
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What's really the reason to bring in both? This team is rebuilding at this point and the main focus of bringing in Marchand would be to sell Rakell but still give Crosby a replacement winger.
molon labe
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What's the point of giving Sid a replacement winger? Why not finish worse next year than we did this year?
If we're talking hypotheticals we'll keep it hypothetical.
Marchand may very well want to play with his buddy before he retires. But he's continuing his taste of performance hockey so why come here if the vision is ultimately to keep Sid at a ppg but lose and play like shit?
Empoleon8771
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I mean sure? Yeah the Penguins are rebuilding at this point, so "keep Sid at a PPG but lose and play like shit" is basically what the Penguins are going to be doing going forward.
molon labe
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What is confusing here? It's lighthearted hypotheticals being discussed..... who gives a crap if people discuss it one way or another lol.
This forum desperately needs two salary cap threads - one dedicated to blowing it up and sucking for draft position and another to discuss competition. I don't care at this point other than having a preference to compete rather than suck....but it's silly to get jumpy over trade threads when nobody knows what Dubas is going to do here.
If you can get Marner - get him and go for it. You're not drafting anyone that good and the chances of building with him are just as long-shot-ish as having nobody good and sucking for a long time. For the Marchand talk - both Marchand and Marner are both more than likely to be available day 1. If you can get one there's no reason not to target the other.
orby
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The next forward the Pens throw a zillion dollars at should be a top 6 center IMO - and preferably, one they draft. I don't really see Marner as The Guy to build around in the impending post-Crosby era. I would rather see the team not make any big signings this year, have a bad season, and start building a contender through the draft than bring in a big gun with a double-digit AAV and a long-term deal to try and make one doomed playoff run.
Ragamuffin Gunner
Lost in the Flood
The Pens shouldn't even kick the tires on Marner. Way too much money and would be a huge detriment to the re-build.
Empoleon8771
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Everything this team has said and done makes it pretty damn clear they're rebuilding. This team isn't trying to compete anymore. Dubas was explicit about this at the end of season press conference, he's not going to make rash short term moves just to get the team back to the playoffs but not an actual contender.
There are a couple of posters on here who really refuse to acknowledge the reality of where this team is at this point.
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CheckingLineCenter
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- Aug 10, 2018
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Toronto fans are just insane people
Matthews B game playing hurt all year is near p/pg in playoffs and outscoring opponents 11 to 7. Was he good? No. but other markets you’re like “wow we have a guy who can still help us win shifts with his B game, he gutted through something all year and we made our deepest run in a long time”. In Toronto (not exactly the standard of playoff success) they want his head.
Was Marner great? No. Bone headed plays, trying to do too much. But again, point per game and outscored opponents at 5v5 with him on the ice.
I don’t understand how you watch those games and think “we need less elite talent and goals”. Meanwhile the D literally couldn’t handle the Florida forecheck and the depth got killed.
They need changes— but I’ll happily take any of the “core 4” here lmao. It’s same thing as Phil.
Matthews B game playing hurt all year is near p/pg in playoffs and outscoring opponents 11 to 7. Was he good? No. but other markets you’re like “wow we have a guy who can still help us win shifts with his B game, he gutted through something all year and we made our deepest run in a long time”. In Toronto (not exactly the standard of playoff success) they want his head.
Was Marner great? No. Bone headed plays, trying to do too much. But again, point per game and outscored opponents at 5v5 with him on the ice.
I don’t understand how you watch those games and think “we need less elite talent and goals”. Meanwhile the D literally couldn’t handle the Florida forecheck and the depth got killed.
They need changes— but I’ll happily take any of the “core 4” here lmao. It’s same thing as Phil.
molon labe
Registered User
The team swung and missed and have played media games ever since. That's all.
Dubas has touted nearly every angle there is from keeping youth in AHL together to build rapport, to "turning things around quickly to try and compete sooner than later", to looking into trades for win-now guys, to bringing youth up to see what they have... It's not remarkably consistent whatsoever.
Flat out, if Marner is available there's zero chance Dubas doesn't try to get him and just try and make things work. Frankly it's not all that difficult with such a sharply rising cap and competition that really isn't all that great.
If he doesn't land him and the team looks even worse next year - they'll probably claim it was their plan all along (seems on brand and not uncommon territory for GMs)....but if Marner is available they'll absolutely get their gloves on and pretending otherwise is probably thinking a little too narrowly.
To turn things around - You're gonna have Vegas ready to deal...maybe Toronto if they fire folks... and a number of other clubs. You can get creative pretty easily. Will they? No clue based on the sample size we've seen...but I'll be genuinely shocked to see the same crap ran back next year now that Sully is gone.
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