Salary Cap: 24-25 Salary Thread Crosbicles Volume MXVI: End of season wrap up

[BlindWillyMcHurt]

Ahh. Figured it was too pointless to be fake.

Yeah. I feel like I say this to myself a lot anymore.

 

[Sidney the Kidney]

Re the Matheson comparison -

If Matheson had learned how to use his natural gifts, I am convinced he'd have been one hell of a player. Some of the stuff he could do was wild.

He never really harnessed them and was always a winger disguised as a dman but as raw talent comps goes, sure, that's worth taking a deeper look at because there's a big old ceiling there.

I always felt his decision making was his biggest issue. Maybe it just seemed that way because of the weird brainfarts, but he seemed like a guy with high physical ability but low IQ type player.

 

[Gurglesons]

I always felt his decision making was his biggest issue. Maybe it just seemed that way because of the weird brainfarts, but he seemed like a guy with high physical ability but low IQ type player.

Yeah, I'm not sure the issue with Matheson is that he can't use his physical abilities.

He's just dumb as rocks.

 

[Gurglesons]

Also, I'm not really sure what people are expecting to change in Byram's game at 24.

This isn't a Laf situation where he's been playing behind players like Panarin and Kreider or not been given proper usage.

Byram is a top pairing D on the Sabres.

 

[Empoleon8771]

I always felt his decision making was his biggest issue. Maybe it just seemed that way because of the weird brainfarts, but he seemed like a guy with high physical ability but low IQ type player.

I think you two are saying the same thing. Matheson has the physical tools to be better than he is, but he's just too dumb to use them effectively.

 

[Gurglesons]

I think you two are saying the same thing. Matheson has the physical tools to be better than he is, but he's just too dumb to use them effectively.

No coach is going to fix that.

 

[HandshakeLine]

Re the Matheson comparison -

If Matheson had learned how to use his natural gifts, I am convinced he'd have been one hell of a player. Some of the stuff he could do was wild.

He never really harnessed them and was always a winger disguised as a dman but as raw talent comps goes, sure, that's worth taking a deeper look at because there's a big old ceiling there.

I would much rather take gambles on these kinds of players than guys who are consistent plugs. You don't need a roster full of Mathesons by any means, but I would rather have one or two kinds of talented but uneven players than ranks of do-nothing bottom 6ers and ineffectual positional defensemen.

 

[HandshakeLine]

I always felt his decision making was his biggest issue. Maybe it just seemed that way because of the weird brainfarts, but he seemed like a guy with high physical ability but low IQ type player.

He's a better skating Letang but with worse instincts.

 

[Empoleon8771]

No coach is going to fix that.

Yes hence why Matheson basically never got better than he was in his first couple of years in the NHL. We don't know if that's the case yet with Byram, where his natural gifts are worth the gamble for this team.

 

[Gurglesons]

Yes hence why Matheson basically never got better than he was in his first couple of years in the NHL. We don't know if that's the case yet with Byram, where his natural gifts are worth the gamble for this team.

I'm re-signed to the fact Dubas may feel like that. But, if we move a 1st plus for Byram and give him a huge contract, we will be disappointed within 120 days.

 

[HandshakeLine]

Honestly, I would really like to see us drafting these kinds of guys, not necessarily trading for them or paying to acquire them.

 

[Empoleon8771]

Honestly, I would really like to see us drafting these kinds of guys, not necessarily trading for them or paying to acquire them.

Eh I actually don't agree there. Smith is the exact player we're talking about here and he's projected to go right around the Penguins 1st, but I'd much rather trade for Byram and take my chances on him over drafting Smith.

 

[HandshakeLine]

Eh I actually don't agree there. Smith is the exact player we're talking about here and he's projected to go right around the Penguins 1st, but I'd much rather trade for Byram and take my chances on him over drafting Smith.

I wouldn't say necessarily spend the 1st on them, but taking flyers on these kinds of talented-but-??? players is what we should be doing.

I also get wanting to get some more established gambles, but at the same time, us getting these guys early means that we can size them up quicker, mold them, etc. IF they don't work? Just trade them, like we're talking about with Byram. I think a bigger problem with this team in the last few seasons has been an inability to cut bait with guys who aren't working here and, for all his faults, I think Dubas is starting to figure that out.

 

[Gurglesons]

Honestly, I would really like to see us drafting these kinds of guys, not necessarily trading for them or paying to acquire them.

If we are targeting young players or players on inflated contracts we need to have a reason to do it.

The reason with Rossi and Laf is that they were high 1st round picks that either the team has lost faith on or the team may potentially move because of the contract.

Rossi has been largely buried on the Wild, but when he has played in the top six has been very successful.

Laf until the last two years was largely used as a third line winger with little playoff usage. He had a big year when utilized properly in 23-24 and then fell off this year when the rest of the team fell off.

Byram has played with Makar and Dahlin. He stinks away from elite talent. He is mediocre at best at top pairing minutes and he wants to be paid.

He's the exact type of player we should be avoiding unless a team is paying us to take them.

 

[BlindWillyMcHurt]

Considering this team's work at the draft table the last like 15 years or whatever I'll just be happy with guys who can actually make an NHL roster.

 

[CheckingLineCenter]

Considering this team's work at the draft table the last like 15 years or whatever I'll just be happy with guys who can actually make an NHL roster.

When you dive in (I did yesterday) it’s actually so incredibly bad.

 

[BlindWillyMcHurt]

When you dive in (I did yesterday) it’s actually so incredibly bad.

People use the lack of first rounders during their window as an excuse but I'm not buyin'

Shit man sheer odds should have yielded more than THAT.

 

[Gurglesons]

When you dive in (I did yesterday) it’s actually so incredibly bad.

I would say it's more so over the last 10 years versus the last 15.

Also, I think Hextall's drafts have potential. Dubas' seem a little questionable.

But Brunicke or Illyin actually turning into something would help.

 

[BlindWillyMcHurt]

AKSHUALLY

But no you're right... more like a decade. Tack on another five for the misery I guess. I dunno. Too early to judge on Dubas but he has a rep for decent drafting and I thought Hex did an OK job as well. I still think Pickering was a nice get at that slot.

 

[Peat]

When you dive in (I did yesterday) it’s actually so incredibly bad.

Yeah thanks Jim.

 

[Empoleon8771]

I'll give Hextall credit for Pickering, Broz and Murashov, but his remaining picks (which were a bunch of 5ths-7ths to be fair) are a bunch of guys that I don't think anyone even knows of. Like who the hell is Nolan Collins or Luke Devlin? Tankov was hyped up for a minute but that hype has completely disappeared, especially because Ilyin looks way better in the KHL.

I don't see how Dubas' picks in 2 years are looking worse than Hextall's picks in 2 years. IMO Yager (turned into McGroarty), Brunicke, Pieniniemi and Ilyin is better than Pickering, Broz and Murashov.

 

[CheckingLineCenter]

I would say it's more so over the last 10 years versus the last 15.

Agree

Also, I think Hextall's drafts have potential. Dubas' seem a little questionable.

But Brunicke or Illyin actually turning into something would help.

Pryor jr has run all drafts under both so far. Obv Dubas is responsible for his picks and Hextall’s responsible for his at the end of the day - not absolving or praising either guy— but it was the same team. I think it’s pretty telling Pryor packs his things and they ship out the highest pick he made right after.

This year is gonna be interesting imo.

 

[Empoleon8771]

Yeah thanks Jim.

Yeah it's really more JR than anyone. JR's drafts with the Penguins are horrid, while both Hextall and Dubas seem to have at least decent drafts so far.

JR's drafts after 2015 are even worse. He hit on Kapapen, Lafferty, Sprong and Simon in the 2014 and 2015 drafts, which isn't anything great but isn't terrible. But from 2016 onwards, it's literally only Gustavsson who's a NHLer today. Hallander may join that next year but that's awful drafting over a 5 year window.

 

[BlindWillyMcHurt]

I'll give Hextall credit for Pickering, Broz and Murashov, but his remaining picks (which were a bunch of 5ths-7ths to be fair) are a bunch of guys that I don't think anyone even knows of. Like who the hell is Nolan Collins or Luke Devlin? Tankov was hyped up for a minute but that hype has completely disappeared, especially because Ilyin looks way better in the KHL.

I don't see how Dubas' picks in 2 years are looking worse than Hextall's picks in 2 years. IMO Yager (turned into McGroarty), Brunicke, Pieniniemi and Ilyin is better than Pickering, Broz and Murashov.

I think Broz was a good selection. I like taking a risk on a longer-term project with some upside, there. The rest of that draft looks trash but I guess so were the picks.

2022 looks like it could be really good, though. If only because of the first two picks. Mush already looks like he's going places and I still have a lot of faith that Pickering can be a steady 2LD. Didn't like the Plante pick but hey 150th overall so whatever.

 

[Empoleon8771]

I think Broz was a good selection. I like taking a risk on a longer-term project with some upside, there. The rest of that draft looks trash but I guess so were the picks.

2022 looks like it could be really good, though. If only because of the first two picks. Mush already looks like he's going places and I still have a lot of faith that Pickering can be a steady 2LD. Didn't like the Plante pick but hey 150th overall so whatever.

Yeah I didn't mean that as in Hextall's drafts were bad, it was more that I don't think Dubas' drafts have been worse. Both Dubas and Hextall have done a fine job with their picks IMO. I think Ilyin has the potential to be something really good too, I think Ilyin could be Dubas' version of the Murashov pick.

JR was the one that was ghastly bad at drafting.