Salary Cap: 24-25 Salary Thread Crosbicles Volume MXVI: End of season wrap up

[Empoleon8771]

Kevin Stevens caving his face in is almost as big of a what-if as Mario and the health issues. Definitely one of my favorite all-time players and should be the definition for a skilled power forward. He was also kind of a dick on the ice and that's a huge plus.

He was also crazily coked up when he played so that probably helped too

Although did Stevens get his coke addiction before or after his face injury?

 

[CheckingLineCenter]

Lawd he chonky. He a chungus.

Not hard when you have a 40 lb neck like he does

 

[HandshakeLine]

Not hard when you have a 40 lb neck like he does

He's got advanced Barry Trotz Syndrome.

 

[Deport Ogie]

He was also crazily coked up when he played so that probably helped too

Although did Stevens get his coke addiction before or after his face injury?

I believe the generally accepted story is that it is only afterward and stemmed directly from the painkillers he was on after they had to surgically recreate like, 40% of his head. I could be remembering incorrectly.

 

[HandshakeLine]

He was also crazily coked up when he played so that probably helped too

Although did Stevens get his coke addiction before or after his face injury?

The story is after, IIRC, but a lot of dudes from that era were on benzedrine or ephedrine. They used to have handfuls of it in the locker rooms, apparently.

 

[HandshakeLine]

Yeah, I'm pretty sure Stevens wasn't on coke to play, but doing coke to get over the depression that followed his surgeries and losing the ability to play like he did.

 

[CheckingLineCenter]

What hilarious is Zucker-Erod-Kapanen was actually insane good for a beautiful 103 minutes of hockey in 2021-22. 70% XGF and actual GF was even better — 7 goals for, 0 against at 5v5. Wasn’t a ridiculous shooting percentage bender either.

Only were together due to injury and our genius HC never put them together again. Will forever be my favorite obscure Penguin line. Such a waste.

Point is Handshake Line is onto something

 

[Coastal Kev]

I mean, Tocchet was my personal favorite in terms of being a tough physical pest with hands (being a former pest myself), but Artie was the superior offensive player by far. Dude had a 40g season without flanking Mario.

That said, both were tough as nails, physical, and could pot goals and get the puck on net which is what we never were able to acquire for the entirety of Sid's tenure. Just imagine what could have been!

Kunitz was a tornado... I liked him next to Sid. If they would have been paired with Jake during this time.. that line would have been unstoppable.

 

[HandshakeLine]

I'll accept my Jack Adams award converted into cash and booze, thanks.

 

[HandshakeLine]

Kunitz was a tornado... I liked him next to Sid. If they would have been paired with Jake during this time.. that line would have been unstoppable.

Yeah, Kunitz just absolutely trucking Kimo Timmonen in the playoffs was one of my favorite moments of those early Sid years.

I miss having guys who can actually hit on the team.

 

[HandshakeLine]

Let's all relive that moment just for a bit:

 

[CheckingLineCenter]

Yeah, Kunitz just absolutely trucking Kimo Timmonen in the playoffs was one of my favorite moments of those early Sid years.

I miss having guys who can actually hit on the team.

JR was ahead of the curve just didn’t execute properly. beef wins championships lately.

 

[HandshakeLine]

I mean, not even beef (though that is the recent trend) but we systematically neutered any physicality on this team to cater to Sullivan and it coincides from the period that we moved away from the mix of speed, physicality, and skill that won the B2B.

 

[HandshakeLine]

Like that 2015-2016 wasn't big or anything but they hit anyone that moved. But Big Brains Sully didn't like that we occasionally took a penalty or something.

 

[Coastal Kev]

JR was ahead of the curve just didn’t execute properly. beef wins championships lately.

In fairness to JR, ownership torpedoed his execution by backing Sully in their power struggle. I firmly believe JR would have canned sully if allowed.

 

[Ragamuffin Gunner]

lol Laf makes over 7M a year?

Why are we even talking about this guy? I don't care much about cap hits these days but the idea of paying what might very well pan out to be a 40ish point middle six wing 7+ million a year is pretty nauseating.

Laf's the type of gamble the Pens should be taking. 7M for a 40 point guy is bad but if he figures it out, it could be a huge bargin.

 

[Peat]

There's also the question of why we're using 400 games as the metric and not 23 years of age. Is Lafrenière worse because he went right into the NHL vs. a guy who cracks the league at 22 and produces roughly the same amount?

I think we should ask the question whether the extra experience and education he's received compared to other 23 year olds means he's less likely to have as much developmental runway, yes. It seems intuitive to me that in most fields that once we've hit X level of experience, we rarely see much increase in ability.

But to my knowledge there's no good study of this in hockey publicly available, so we muddle along posting examples on a forum as a substitute. Something that's further complicated by the obvious fact the results we use to measure progress are more about environment than individual ability.

I would add that so far the anecdotal evidence looks like it's maybe not a huge deal but with one caveat, that a lot of the guys who figure it out big later on do so partly due to playing with better players and Lafreniere has already had that jump.

JR was ahead of the curve just didn’t execute properly. beef wins championships lately.

Given the prices paid for beef for who can play, and state of the Pens after the double wins, I really doubt he ever could have. I mean, there were some absolutely ridiculous moves there (Derek Grant will make you tough) too, he was straight bad at it, but to revisit one of my favourite themes, I think he had a really narrow needle to thread there.

We still laugh at Pixies' Guentzel for Bennett idea (particularly since there was an extra first iirc) but now we're at the point of their careers where both guys have hit their ceilings, is it really that different to Neal for Hornqvist? Would Florida do that trade now? Doubt it.

 

[CheckingLineCenter]

Given the prices paid for beef for who can play, and state of the Pens after the double wins, I really doubt he ever could have. I mean, there were some absolutely ridiculous moves there (Derek Grant will make you tough) too, he was straight bad at it, but to revisit one of my favourite themes, I think he had a really narrow needle to thread there.

We still laugh at Pixies' Guentzel for Bennett idea (particularly since there was an extra first iirc) but now we're at the point of their careers where both guys have hit their ceilings, is it really that different to Neal for Hornqvist? Would Florida do that trade now? Doubt it.

I’d argue that the bones of this are accurate. My one pushback is let’s not excuse him completely— this was pre beef inflation and he could’ve done better.

 

[HandshakeLine]

Beeflation.

 

[eXile3]

That Stevens-Lemieux-Tocchet line though.

 

[CheckingLineCenter]

Beeflation.

 

[BlindWillyMcHurt]

If you have a shot at a guy who is 6'2" 220lbs and can score roughly at the same rate as prime Josef Melichar you can't NOT give up a whole draft amirite?

 

[HandshakeLine]

That Stevens-Lemieux-Tocchet line though.

Also a great line. I miss having like, game-breaking lines. Instead of Rackell Crosby Rust.

 

[plaidchuck]

Also a great line. I miss having like, game-breaking lines. Instead of Rackell Crosby Rust.

Game breaking lines like that monster clutch first line winger Pascal Dupuis? Or Mr Neal who never missed a chance at an offensive zone penalty? Man, it’s amazing what Crosby did accomplish with such dreck..

HBK line though, that was indeed game breaking.

 

[Empoleon8771]

Tbh the more I look into both Rossi and Lafreniere, the less I like the idea of trading for them. It's not that either of them are bad, it's that both guys look like complementary guys to great linemates with Lafreniere playing with Panarin and Rossi playing with Kaprizov. How much are those guys producing if they're playing with say McGroarty and Rakell on L2? I can see it working well, but trading a lot for that gamble does make me pretty uncomfortable.

If Crosby was like 34 instead of 38, I'd love to trade for Lafreniere to stick on Crosby's LW for the next 5+ years. But it's really unclear how many years Crosby has left, and paying a ton for a complementary top-6 guy when you don't have the drivers to play with those complementary guys feels inappropriate. They need to get those drivers before you start acquiring the complementary guys for them.