Salary Cap: 24-25 Salary Thread Crosbicles Volume MXVI: End of season wrap up

[chethejet]

Pens are working to add better D as the primary move this off season. Karlsson moved and sullivan gone gives Dubas the coach he wants to develop the younger guys and of course have a system that fits the strengths of the players. Sullivan was such a crap coach that refused to adjust to things. Dubas telling comments about him firing Sullivan during the season suggest Dubas knew he was just the wrong coach for the Pens. Plus the Pens unload 10 million of salary due Sullivan with NY picking up that. Thank you Rangers.

 

[KrisLetAngry]

As the president of the "Why the f*** didn't you dipshits trade Rakell at the TDL" club, if this team traded Rakell for a 1st+pick/prospect/younger player from a contender and then flipped that 1st for Howard, I'd be perfectly happy with how things ultimately played out.

He's also not a can't miss prospect, but this team should be trying to amass young players/prospects in an effort to fill out the prospect cupboard as best they can in hopes that they find some hits before the team genuinely craters and they land top 2 or 3 picks for a few years. Rakell means nothing to this team beyond his value as a trade asset, and a prospect like Howard and another prospect would be a perfectly acceptable return.

I've been messing around with the armchair GM stuff on CapWages quite a bit building out different teams.

In one scenario, I have 4 2026 1sts which, in a strong draft, would be amazing. In another, I traded EK+3rd for Walker+1st and Rakell+that 1st for Rossi. Then sent a 2nd + 3rd + Pono for Tampa for Howard. Then took Martin and Jack O'Brien in the 2025 draft.

Out: Karlsson, Rakell, Pono, 2nd, 3rd
In: Walker, Rossi, Howard, Martin, JOB

I think it would be hard to have a better summer than that.

Tampa does have a cap crunch but I don't mind trading Rust or Rakell and using those Assets for Howard or keeping some.

I definitely think we should move one of them. I just hope Dubas will be able to take advantage as one of the few times not necessarily gunning for the playoffs.

 

[Jag68Sid87]

Pens are working to add better D as the primary move this off season. Karlsson moved and sullivan gone gives Dubas the coach he wants to develop the younger guys and of course have a system that fits the strengths of the players. Sullivan was such a crap coach that refused to adjust to things. Dubas telling comments about him firing Sullivan during the season suggest Dubas knew he was just the wrong coach for the Pens. Plus the Pens unload 10 million of salary due Sullivan with NY picking up that. Thank you Rangers.

I agree. The only thing I disagree with is trading Karlsson for exactly the reasons you point out. The ex-coach had no clue how to utilize 65's gifts. It is hard to believe the new coach will be as dense. Give EK65 one more season. See if he can figure it out with the help of a new coach, new system and new D partner (hopefully).

Then, if successful, you spike Karlsson's value with one less year on his deal. Then you can decide what you want to do, keep or trade. At that point, you won't need to retain (remember the cap will keep spiking up year over year for the next 3) so it will purely be a hockey decision based on where you are as a franchise 12 months from now.

We absolutely should assume that our Dmen under contract will be better under a new regime. It is hard to picture Karlsson, Letang and Graves being worse.

 

[TimmyD]

But why is Sidney Crosby this generation's Ray Bourque? And why aren't people clamoring for Malkin to be dealt to a Cup contender in his final year of his contract (hopefully he is not pushed out the door)? And why is this such a big deal? Crosby has 3 Cups. Colorado has 3 Cups. MacKinnon has his Cup. This whole thing is just a stupid, Canadian media-driven fantasy by people who have nothing better to do with their time.

I don't hear people saying, "oh, the Kings must do right by Anze Kopitar and get him on a true Cup contender." It's nonsense. If Crosby was wound like that, he would have said so...and probably a long, long time ago.

This notion that Mike Sullivan leaving is the final straw, that we suddenly have NO CHANCE...is comedic gold. But nothing could be further from the truth.

And if Crosby tells Dubas to send him to Colorado, he is a tool. Sorry. And if Dubas accepts the "Patrick Kane" deal to send him there, he is an even bigger tool.

I hate these feel-good narratives. Life does not work that way. Sports is a microcosm of society. Life is not a bowl of cherries. So Crosby never gets to sip from the Cup ever again. Boo frickin' hoo.

All he has to do is buy into the new coach's plan. We will be back in the Stanley Cup playoffs as long as the core buys in. That is what we need.

I’m not saying it will happen or that Sid would even ask (because I don’t believe he will). But you are absolutely insane if you don’t think Nate MacKinnon, coming off the heels of another early elimination isn’t going to be in Sid’s ear about playing together and chasing a cup. He would be crazy not to try and get his best friend, who is still one of the best players in the world to come play with him on a contender when he sees the situation the Penguins are in.

 

[Empoleon8771]

I’m not saying it will happen or that Sid would even ask (because I don’t believe he will). But you are absolutely insane if you don’t think Nate MacKinnon, coming off the heels of another early elimination isn’t going to be in Sid’s ear about playing together and chasing a cup. He would be crazy not to try and get his best friend, who is still one of the best players in the world to come play with him on a contender when he sees the situation the Penguins are in.

The issue is even if MacKinnon could convince Crosby of that, the Avs have absolutely nothing to convince the Penguins that it's worthwhile to move Crosby.

This isn't even a "the Penguins would want a mega return", the Avs literally don't have a 1st, 2nd or 3rd in each of the next 2 drafts.

 

[TimmyD]

The issue is even if MacKinnon could convince Crosby of that, the Avs have absolutely nothing to convince the Penguins that it's worthwhile to move Crosby.

This isn't even a "the Penguins would want a mega return", the Avs literally don't have a 1st, 2nd or 3rd in each of the next 2 drafts.

I mean if Sid came to the Penguins and told them he wanted out and would only waive to Colorado (which is what this imaginary scenario is suggesting) that’s not really going to mean anything

 

[Empoleon8771]

I mean if Sid came to the Penguins and told them he wanted out and would only waive to Colorado (which is what this imaginary scenario is suggesting) that’s not really going to mean anything

The Penguins would just refuse to trade him because Colorado would have nothing to offer to convince the Penguins to move him.

I think Crosby would understand that the team needs to make the best decision for the long-term viability of the team and wouldn't just give him away for nothing.

 

[TimmyD]

The Penguins would just refuse to trade him because Colorado would have nothing to offer to convince the Penguins to move him.

I think Crosby would understand that the team needs to make the best decision for the long-term viability of the team and wouldn't just give him away for nothing.

If Sid came to them and said he wanted out there is zero chance the Penguins refuse to trade him. It’s a moot point because I don’t believe he’s going to. But yeah if he did there is no way they wouldn’t honor his request. Also. Colorado could take those future picks and trade them for this years picks. They could trade Necas for sooner picks (or as part of the deal for Sid). If this actually happened Colorado would move mountains to get current picks to send to the Penguins.

 

[Empoleon8771]

If Sid came to them and said he wanted out there is zero chance the Penguins refuse to trade him. It’s a moot point because I don’t believe he’s going to. But yeah if he did there is no way they wouldn’t honor his request. Also. Colorado could take those future picks and trade them for this years picks. They could trade Necas for sooner picks (or as part of the deal for Sid). If this actually happened Colorado would move mountains to get current picks to send to the Penguins.

I mean yeah, if Colorado did this then they could put together a package for Crosby. I just think that even if Crosby went to the team and wanted to be traded to Colorado, Dubas would rightfully tell him that Colorado needs to get assets together for the Penguins to actually justify trading Crosby. If Crosby wanted the flexibility to pick any location he wanted to go to and not have the other team pay assets for him, he shouldn't have re-signed with the Penguins.

 

[CheckingLineCenter]

Crosby to the Avs discussion? Am I on the main boards?

It’s May 7th. Long offseason inbound. Although you could argue the next 3 seasons are basically one mega offseason.

 

[Big Friggin Dummy]

The only way Sid ever ends up in Colorado or anywhere else is if he initiates the process and goes to Dubas to ask out. There's been a flood of evidence saying the opposite; that he wants to stay in Pittsburgh until he retires, regardless.

But boredom is a hell of a drug.

 

[molon labe]

Honestly - maybe the mods could provide us two salary cap threads:

A) Salary Cap: We're competing
B) Salary Cap: We're tearing down/acquiring assets

Would really clean up a lot of the conversation here, abstract points, and arguments.

 

[Empoleon8771]

Back to a more roster talk idea, if the draft ends up playing out that all of the guys I like are gone by #11, I think I'd be trading down and trying to parlay some assets into getting Howard's rights from Tampa. I wonder if you could do something like #11 for #16 and #41 and then flip #16 to Tampa Bay for Howard's rights. I like Howard more than any prospect they could realistically be taking at #16 and you can immediately get a top-9 winger with doing that trade for him.

Without any additional moves, I'd be running with:

Howard-Crosby-Rakell
Koivunen-Malkin-Rust
McGroarty-Novak-Tomasino

If you could get Howard for even cheaper than #16 overall, that would be even better.

 

[TimmyD]

Back to a more roster talk idea, if the draft ends up playing out that all of the guys I like are gone by #11, I think I'd be trading down and trying to parlay some assets into getting Howard's rights from Tampa. I wonder if you could do something like #11 for #16 and #41 and then flip #16 to Tampa Bay for Howard's rights. I like Howard more than any prospect they could realistically be taking at #16 and you can immediately get a top-9 winger with doing that trade for him.

Without any additional moves, I'd be running with:

Howard-Crosby-Rakell
Koivunen-Malkin-Rust
McGroarty-Novak-Tomasino

If you could get Howard for even cheaper than #16 overall, that would be even better.

I’m really hoping they explore moving Rust this offseason. I think Buffalo or Detroit would definitely love a guy like him. Something around Peterka for Rust would be nice

 

[Empoleon8771]

I’m really hoping they explore moving Rust this offseason. I think Buffalo or Detroit would definitely love a guy like him. Something around Peterka for Rust would be nice

I don't think there's any way that Buffalo would go for that. They'd definitely get better offers than that for Peterka.

I'm also not overly inclined to want to trade Rust right now, I want to have McGroarty and Koivunen show more in the NHL before I trade Rust. I don't want to put the young guys in a bad developmental position by having them play with shitty linemates.

 

[TimmyD]

I don't think there's any way that Buffalo would go for that. They'd definitely get better offers than that for Peterka.

I'm also not overly inclined to want to trade Rust right now, I want to have McGroarty and Koivunen show more in the NHL before I trade Rust. I don't want to put the young guys in a bad developmental position by having them play with shitty linemates.

I think you could trade Rust and still play the kids with good linemates to help their development. I don’t think those two things are mutually exclusive. I just think Rust should be a prime trade piece this offseason. No more trade protection, could net you younger assets. He seems like a no brainer guy to move.

 

[The GM]

I think you could trade Rust and still play the kids with good linemates to help their development. I don’t think those two things are mutually exclusive. I just think Rust should be a prime trade piece this offseason. No more trade protection, could net you younger assets. He seems like a no brainer guy to move.

I don’t think dubas wants to tinker with The Core at this time

 

[TimmyD]

I don’t think dubas wants to tinker with The Core at this time

I know everyone was freaking out about Rust being labeled as part of the “core” in that press release but I just think they meant he was 1 of the 4 guys that have been apart of the team through Sully’s entire coaching tenure. I don’t believe they view Rust in the same light as Letang or Malkin and view him as untouchable in any way.

 

[Big Friggin Dummy]

Add a secret, third option for when they refuse to trade Rakell or Rust.

C) Salary Cap: The team still refuses to pick a lane

 

[Dennis Reynolds]

Add a fourth option for communicating about the Pens only in partial Seinfeld quotes.

D) Salary Cap: The team still refuses to pick Elaine.

Yeah the Pens beat the Sharks in 2016.... in six games.

 

[JackFr]

I fully think they don't want to trade Rust. He'll probably wear an A in 26-27. Don't think Dubas wants to completely burn it down and if they think Rust is a good influence in the room won't surprise me if they keep him.

 

[Jared Grayden]

I fully think they don't want to trade Rust. He'll probably wear an A in 26-27. Don't think Dubas wants to completely burn it down and if they think Rust is a good influence in the room won't surprise me if they keep him.

Unfortunately you are probably correct. I also think it's a missed opportunity. Rust is old and injury prone. A ruthless organization like Vegas, Tampa, New York would send him to the highest bidder the day his NMC is gone. Dubas doesn't have to do that, but Rust should be moved for future assets.

 

[Sideline]

Unfortunately you are probably correct. I also think it's a missed opportunity. Rust is old and injury prone. A ruthless organization like Vegas, Tampa, New York would send him to the highest bidder the day his NMC is gone. Dubas doesn't have to do that, but Rust should be moved for future assets.

I'm sympathetic to the idea that you want to keep a few hard working vets that play the right way and know how to organize a team dinner. I will be disappointed if both Rust and Rakell are kept on the roster. You need kids for the left over vet to lead.

 

[Ragamuffin Gunner]

I'd really have loved if Dubi took the Clarke+1st for Raks that was rumored.

I doubt the new GM trades Clark now.

 

[Jared Grayden]

I'm sympathetic to the idea that you want to keep a few hard working vets that play the right way and know how to organize a team dinner. I will be disappointed if both Rust and Rakell are kept on the roster. You need kids for the left over vet to lead.

I don't believe Rust affords any unique veteran perspective that is not already available with the NMC core and also what can't be replicated with some UFA geezer. If his trade returns even what Guentzel got as a deadline rental, that is more beneficial than keeping him.