Salary Cap: 24-25 Salary Thread Crosbicles Volume MXVI: End of season wrap up

[SEALBound]

Well, LA could now make for an interesting trade partner. A new GM may want to shake things up to get the Kings over the hump after four straight first round exits.

LA's fate the last four years is also yet another reason why the NHL needs to change the playoff structure. All four losses have come against Edmonton.

Makes sense but...damn...he was GM I thought Dubas could take advantage of in the wake of 4 straight losses to Edmonton.

 

[Buddy Bizarre]

I always kind of assumed as much. It was just a plot point as to why players would want to play there and add more attractive people to the show.

I don't know if this is true, but a co worker told me that the reason there are so many attractive people in the Montreal suburbs is that used to be one of the places they shot porn back in the 60s/70s. Then the porn actors were making babies (who tended to be more attractive than average).

I took his commentary with a major grain of salt haha

 

[pistolpete11]

They could have an opportunity to acquire a player in the off-season that they didn't have at the deadline. Trading Rakell to get the assets to acquire Howard would make a lot of sense to do now, while that opportunity wasn't available at the deadline.

Then they lack a true direction. Howard is a nice prospect. He's not let's change the rebuild/retool plan good. If they are fine trading Rakell for a prospect now, then they should have been fine trading him for more than that a few months ago.

 

[Jag68Sid87]

The Avs boys are gonna spend the entire summer convincing themselves that Mac will get Sid to ask for a trade to the Avs. But honestly, I'm not even sure he'd accept it. Wanting to play together will get satisfied by WC and the Olympics. 4Nations, maybe WC this year, and the Olympics next year should put some cold water on that.

Not to turn this into an Avs discussion though but losing in the first round after the moves they made is absolutely brutal. Nelson didn't give them a bump at all and they gave up their best (and nearly only) good prospect and a high pick. Lindgren cost them some junk + 2nd. No 1st or 2nds for the next two drafts. I would imagine they try to move Colton Ross and Miles Woods this summer to get some space and maybe recoup picks but really, they just need a solid third line wing and a couple depth dmen. They have $6mil roughly in space. Gonna be a rough summer.

If we need to dump a guy like Heinen, Acciari, Hayes, Lizotte - we could probably do it for super cheap (even FC). Comes a point when just having the roster slot may be more valuable. It could also open up a bit of cap that we could further weaponize. Like if I'm CMac, I'm asking Dubas about Hayes. If we were willing to retain 50% and send him there at $1.8mil to be their bottom 6 center alongside Drury, I think that could work well for both sides.

Even Friedman is starting his "MacKinnon is going to bug Crosby all summer about joining him, blah blah blah." What bugs me about this whole hypothesis is: like, what exactly does Colorado have to trade for our BEST player and one of the best all time?"

They don't have a top-THREE round pick until 2027! Their prospect pool is among the worst in the NHL. Yeah, sure they have a LD that we could use. But we could use that player WITH Crosby on the team. Without him, we are selling to the highest bidder (assuming Crosby won't be a dick and say, 'trade me ONLY to Colorado', please). Montreal makes sense because their prospect pool and draft pick capital are both first-rate. But Colorado? Crosby probably has zero faith in MacFarland at this point, too. So maybe we should start the rumor that MacKinnon wants to join Crosby, instead of the other way around!

As for the other part of your post, are you saying the Avs should replace Brock Nelson with Kevin Hayes???

I think they are going to try to find a second-line center by moving a LD. I would not be surprised if they traded Toews to find that elusive 2C. Girard may not get that player but Toews surely would. I suppose if they can get enough futures for traded players, that might be the other way to get a second-line center. Or they overpay for Sam Bennett.

I don't know if this is true, but a co worker told me that the reason there are so many attractive people in the Montreal suburbs is that used to be one of the places they shot porn back in the 60s/70s. Then the porn actors were making babies (who tended to be more attractive than average).

I took his commentary with a major grain of salt haha

LOL. I have lived more than 50 years in the Montreal suburbs. I question the idea that there are so many more attractive people around here, but I also thank you for the compliment at the same time.

I am unaware of the porn scene in the suburbs in the 60s/70s but if my parents were alive I suddenly have questions!

I know that Montreal was big in porn in the late 80s/early 90s but that was mostly downtown (not suburbia).

Fascinating topics found only here on the Penguins board!

 

[SEALBound]

Then they lack a true direction. Howard is a nice prospect. He's not let's change the rebuild/retool plan good. If they are fine trading Rakell for a prospect now, then they should have been fine trading him for more than that a few months ago.

Actually, I do see what you are saying here but my only true retort to it is, when you're rebuilding or you've "finished" the rebuild phase, there's no minimum or maximum age limit on where the new "kids" have to be in order to start the next chapter. Like, Toffoli is a huge part of SJS right and they brought him in at 32.

Making a trade for Howard doesn't really do anything to change directions. Howard is 21 right now. If our rebuild takes a legit 5 years, and he's still part of the organization through that, he will 26yo, right in line with McG, Koivunen, and other currently held prospects. If you're combining that with some higher-end kids we hope to get in the next three drafts, they will be in their early-20s when we are looking to re-engage. I feel like that's a really good combination of young guys and prime-age players. All we are doing now is trading a maybe for a guy that's 3 years into his development. If we get him a 2nd+, he is right where we HOPE that draft pick is in 3 years.

 

[TimmyD]

Even Friedman is starting his "MacKinnon is going to bug Crosby all summer about joining him, blah blah blah." What bugs me about this whole hypothesis is: like, what exactly does Colorado have to trade for our BEST player and one of the best all time?"

They don't have a top-THREE round pick until 2027! Their prospect pool is among the worst in the NHL. Yeah, sure they have a LD that we could use. But we could use that player WITH Crosby on the team. Without him, we are selling to the highest bidder (assuming Crosby won't be a dick and say, 'trade me ONLY to Colorado', please). Montreal makes sense because their prospect pool and draft pick capital are both first-rate. But Colorado? Crosby probably has zero faith in MacFarland at this point, too. So maybe we should start the rumor that MacKinnon wants to join Crosby, instead of the other way around!

As for the other part of your post, are you saying the Avs should replace Brock Nelson with Kevin Hayes???

I think they are going to try to find a second-line center by moving a LD. I would not be surprised if they traded Toews to find that elusive 2C. Girard may not get that player but Toews surely would. I suppose if they can get enough futures for traded players, that might be the other way to get a second-line center. Or they overpay for Sam Bennett.




LOL. I have lived more than 50 years in the Montreal suburbs. I question the idea that there are so many more attractive people around here, but I also thank you for the compliment at the same time.

I am unaware of the porn scene in the suburbs in the 60s/70s but if my parents were alive I suddenly have questions!

I know that Montreal was big in porn in the late 80s/early 90s but that was mostly downtown (not suburbia).

Fascinating topics found only here on the Penguins board!

You don’t think Nate is going to bug Sid all summer about potentially teaming up with him to chase another cup? Of course he’s going to. He would be stupid not to. His best friend is still playing at an incredibly high level and could get them over the hump. Also, yes I do believe if Sid ever asked out he would say he only wants to go to Colorado to play with his best friend and try to win a cup together.

 

[KrisLetAngry]

Sounds like Howard may want to test FA though. That could be posturing.

Oh no, people want a rebuilding team to trade a guy coming off a career season and use his return to acquire a prospect that was a 1st rounder and just won the Hobey Baker. What insanity!

I don’t mind the plan of trading Rakell for 1st+ and then using that 1st to acquire Howard.

But no way we trade 9th or 11th overall for him like Gurgs mentioned. Or Koivunen for that matter. Dude was basically a ppg winger for us to end the season.

Pickering might get their attention tbh, only if we have a plan in place to get another young LHD.

I think it's tough to tell what Howard's intentions are here. I think he was planning on signing with the Lightning if it would burn a year off his ELC, but they couldn't do that due to the cap. If it's a guaranteed NHL role, the Penguins can give that to him pretty easily. If it's a specific location, then yeah that changes things.

He's from Wisconsin so there's not like a "local" team that he'd want to go to over another one, like how Fox forced himself to the Rangers.

Just seeing us talk about Howard here.
We have a spot and are in our youth movement. If Tampa let's him walk they get a late 2nd like 61st for him.

A 2026 2nd and a 6th rounder or our 2025 2nd + 6th rounder would be a good trade. Maybe we trade a 3rd instead of a 6th this year.

I imagine Dubas would be allowed to talk to the agent before the trade to confirm if he'd sign or not. I think Dubas would also be able to say he has a huge chance playing here. Little competition but he has to be able to play in the NHL if not AHL for a few games. I do not trade a 1st for him or Koivunen. Using a 2nd and 3rd though I'd stomach.

 

[SEALBound]

Even Friedman is starting his "MacKinnon is going to bug Crosby all summer about joining him, blah blah blah." What bugs me about this whole hypothesis is: like, what exactly does Colorado have to trade for our BEST player and one of the best all time?"

They don't have a top-THREE round pick until 2027! Their prospect pool is among the worst in the NHL. Yeah, sure they have a LD that we could use. But we could use that player WITH Crosby on the team. Without him, we are selling to the highest bidder (assuming Crosby won't be a dick and say, 'trade me ONLY to Colorado', please). Montreal makes sense because their prospect pool and draft pick capital are both first-rate. But Colorado? Crosby probably has zero faith in MacFarland at this point, too. So maybe we should start the rumor that MacKinnon wants to join Crosby, instead of the other way around!

As for the other part of your post, are you saying the Avs should replace Brock Nelson with Kevin Hayes???

I think they are going to try to find a second-line center by moving a LD. I would not be surprised if they traded Toews to find that elusive 2C. Girard may not get that player but Toews surely would. I suppose if they can get enough futures for traded players, that might be the other way to get a second-line center. Or they overpay for Sam Bennett.

This is what I said on their board:

Being a Pens fan, I am extremely skeptical (like I'm 99.99999% positive) that Sid will not be asking out. He's reiterated countless times how important retiring a Penguin and playing for one team is for him. If you guys had just lost in the cup finals and you're bringing back the entire team and need a 2C, that might be one thing but I don't think he's ruining that part of his legacy for battle to get out of round 1.

Also, given his extreme loyalty to the Penguins, this "they will gift him to Colorado" is not going to happen. I imagine that IF Sid gives the green light, he will only waive if he sees the deal as good for the Penguins. He's not going to leave them holding the bag. This would not be a regular trade or a "but Pens have no leverage" conversation. On that front, I don't think the assets are there.

Sid isn't gonna screw us over. Not for the Avs and not for their current situation.

No, I am not suggesting Hayes replaces Nelson. I told them they could push Coyle to 2C, Drury to 3C, and Hayes or Acciari at 4C. The 2C market is beyond dog shit and they don't have any assets to get anyone. They could get Hayes or Acciari (even retained I bet) for a 5th from us.

Some think sending Necas out for a 2C+ is the way to go. Like maybe something like:

Girard + Wood to Pit for 26 2nd + choice of Heinen, Acciari, or Hayes
Necas + Ross + 26 2nd to OTT for Pinto+Batherson

Just spitballin on their behalf here.

 

[FlightlessBird]

Wait, Avs fans think the Pens will "gift" them Sid? Lmao. They are delusional. This whole thing was started by Biz and it's sick that it's gotten this many legs.

 

[Buddy Bizarre]

Wait, Avs fans think the Pens will "gift" them Sid? Lmao. They are delusional. This whole thing was started by Biz and it's sick that it's gotten this many legs.

It's amazing what passes for "journalism" these days...

 

[CheckingLineCenter]

Ammo for the Pens are boring crowd @JackFr

 

[SEALBound]

Ammo for the Pens are boring crowd @JackFr

Now JFresh, that's no way to calculate our unsung hero of the year Noel "Unsung Hero of the Year" Acciari.

 

[Duffy13]

Marc Andre Fleury has joined Canada at the Worlds as well.

 

[Gurglesons]

And my thread on Nate MacKinnon to PIT gets closed. Sigh.

 

[Duffy13]

And my thread on Nate MacKinnon to PIT gets closed. Sigh.

Weird, did you try a Sid to Colorado thread to see if there's any hypocrisy?

 

[Duffy13]

Really looking forward to this offseason, starting with the Draft lotto tonight. I feel like it's the first time I can actually watch Dubas impress his vision of the team. Ever since he arrived I've been hesitant to call his transactions a success or a failure due to being saddled with Sullivan. I mean, I do like the direction of the Wheeling and WBS, not a fan of Spezza, but the goof is starting to grow on me a bit. So who knows how I will feel when he is inevitably named the Pens GM.

Anyways feeling a bit cautiously optimistic for the first time in a while..... maybe for the first time since Hextall traded out a bunch of contracts, then the pessimism set right back in when he used that space on Granlund lol, did quite a triple take of confusion on that series of events.

 

[pistolpete11]

Actually, I do see what you are saying here but my only true retort to it is, when you're rebuilding or you've "finished" the rebuild phase, there's no minimum or maximum age limit on where the new "kids" have to be in order to start the next chapter. Like, Toffoli is a huge part of SJS right and they brought him in at 32.

Making a trade for Howard doesn't really do anything to change directions. Howard is 21 right now. If our rebuild takes a legit 5 years, and he's still part of the organization through that, he will 26yo, right in line with McG, Koivunen, and other currently held prospects. If you're combining that with some higher-end kids we hope to get in the next three drafts, they will be in their early-20s when we are looking to re-engage. I feel like that's a really good combination of young guys and prime-age players. All we are doing now is trading a maybe for a guy that's 3 years into his development. If we get him a 2nd+, he is right where we HOPE that draft pick is in 3 years.

My issue isn't really with Howard. He's a good target.

My issue is how they would have handled Rakell in this hypothetical.

If they traded him at the deadline for one of the crazy packages teams were throwing around at the time and then used some of that to get Howard, great.

If they wanted to keep him because they are looking to be better next year, fine. I disagree with the direction, but at least it's a direction.

Trading him just a few months later, for less than they could have got, when it was clear they weren't going to make the playoffs, to have a shot at a good-not-great prospect like Howard, would be a sign they don't really have a plan and are just winging it.



But it's not worth much more consideration at this point because I don't think they are going to trade Rakell.

 

[SEALBound]

My issue isn't really with Howard. He's a good target.

My issue is how they would have handled Rakell in this hypothetical.

If they traded him at the deadline for one of the crazy packages teams were throwing around at the time and then used some of that to get Howard, great.

If they wanted to keep him because they are looking to be better next year, fine. I disagree with the direction, but at least it's a direction.

Trading him just a few months later, for less than they could have got, when it was clear they weren't going to make the playoffs, to have a shot at a good-not-great prospect like Howard, would be a sign they don't really have a plan and are just winging it.



But it's not worth much more consideration at this point because I don't think they are going to trade Rakell.

I'll reply line for line:

Agree.

Okay.

I agree.

I don't think you can make the automatic assumption that keeping Rakell = they think they will be better. You can keep Rakell and still be on the rebuild path. I generally do not feel the existence of Rakell or Rust for that matter are the roadblocks to us rebuilding in terms of providing on-ice performance that keeps us in purgatory.

You do not know that the package for Rakell will be less in the summer. Quite often, trades made in summer are better because teams have more cap space and can exceed the limit by 10% while they figure other things out. With the cap going up so much, it will also open up new suiters for Rakell that weren't able to accommodate him at the TDL. What made him valuable at the TDL will still be there this summer. So I do not think there will be a drop in value. Now, I imagine if and when we do trade him, some numbskulls here will automatically assume it's a lesser deal but that will be based on agenda-driven bias against Dubas rather than anything factual. Unless we get concrete evidence of what GMs offered at the TDL.

Maybe, maybe not. I'm not entirely sure. I mean, the Crosby factor has to still be considered. There's still an element of doing right by him (and Geno) so keeping both him and Rust and running:

McG-Sid-Rust
Koivunen-Malkin-Rakell

would be quite reasonable. Then you can look to move EK as your big sell-off trade. Then come TDL, you can revisit things. I don't expect the team to make any moves with the sole intent of being better next year. For example, a Marner signing or trading for a 28yo+ player using draft capital or pretty much any big name in free agency. I don't think Dubas would shy away from a trade for a young star that makes us better though, for example - Marco Rossi or Bryam. Trading for either of them is much more down the path of "acquiring young talent for the rebuild" and if there ends up being better success having them, that's a secondary byproduct.

 

[Big Friggin Dummy]

As the president of the "Why the f*** didn't you dipshits trade Rakell at the TDL" club, if this team traded Rakell for a 1st+pick/prospect/younger player from a contender and then flipped that 1st for Howard, I'd be perfectly happy with how things ultimately played out.

He's also not a can't miss prospect, but this team should be trying to amass young players/prospects in an effort to fill out the prospect cupboard as best they can in hopes that they find some hits before the team genuinely craters and they land top 2 or 3 picks for a few years. Rakell means nothing to this team beyond his value as a trade asset, and a prospect like Howard and another prospect would be a perfectly acceptable return.

 

[SEALBound]

As the president of the "Why the f*** didn't you dipshits trade Rakell at the TDL" club, if this team traded Rakell for a 1st+pick/prospect/younger player from a contender and then flipped that 1st for Howard, I'd be perfectly happy with how things ultimately played out.

He's also not a can't miss prospect, but this team should be trying to amass young players/prospects in an effort to fill out the prospect cupboard as best they can in hopes that they find some hits before the team genuinely craters and they land top 2 or 3 picks for a few years. Rakell means nothing to this team beyond his value as a trade asset, and a prospect like Howard and another prospect would be a perfectly acceptable return.

I've been messing around with the armchair GM stuff on CapWages quite a bit building out different teams.

In one scenario, I have 4 2026 1sts which, in a strong draft, would be amazing. In another, I traded EK+3rd for Walker+1st and Rakell+that 1st for Rossi. Then sent a 2nd + 3rd + Pono for Tampa for Howard. Then took Martin and Jack O'Brien in the 2025 draft.

Out: Karlsson, Rakell, Pono, 2nd, 3rd
In: Walker, Rossi, Howard, Martin, JOB

I think it would be hard to have a better summer than that.

 

[Andy99]

Ammo for the Pens are boring crowd @JackFr

So basically, Malkin is our best forward and Acciari our worst lol

 

[Ryder71]

I've been messing around with the armchair GM stuff on CapWages quite a bit building out different teams.

In one scenario, I have 4 2026 1sts which, in a strong draft, would be amazing. In another, I traded EK+3rd for Walker+1st and Rakell+that 1st for Rossi. Then sent a 2nd + 3rd + Pono for Tampa for Howard. Then took Martin and Jack O'Brien in the 2025 draft.

Out: Karlsson, Rakell, Pono, 2nd, 3rd
In: Walker, Rossi, Howard, Martin, JOB

I think it would be hard to have a better summer than that.

If only that could happen. I'd be stoked!

 

[Jag68Sid87]

You don’t think Nate is going to bug Sid all summer about potentially teaming up with him to chase another cup? Of course he’s going to. He would be stupid not to. His best friend is still playing at an incredibly high level and could get them over the hump. Also, yes I do believe if Sid ever asked out he would say he only wants to go to Colorado to play with his best friend and try to win a cup together.

But why is Sidney Crosby this generation's Ray Bourque? And why aren't people clamoring for Malkin to be dealt to a Cup contender in his final year of his contract (hopefully he is not pushed out the door)? And why is this such a big deal? Crosby has 3 Cups. Colorado has 3 Cups. MacKinnon has his Cup. This whole thing is just a stupid, Canadian media-driven fantasy by people who have nothing better to do with their time.

I don't hear people saying, "oh, the Kings must do right by Anze Kopitar and get him on a true Cup contender." It's nonsense. If Crosby was wound like that, he would have said so...and probably a long, long time ago.

This notion that Mike Sullivan leaving is the final straw, that we suddenly have NO CHANCE...is comedic gold. But nothing could be further from the truth.

And if Crosby tells Dubas to send him to Colorado, he is a tool. Sorry. And if Dubas accepts the "Patrick Kane" deal to send him there, he is an even bigger tool.

I hate these feel-good narratives. Life does not work that way. Sports is a microcosm of society. Life is not a bowl of cherries. So Crosby never gets to sip from the Cup ever again. Boo frickin' hoo.

All he has to do is buy into the new coach's plan. We will be back in the Stanley Cup playoffs as long as the core buys in. That is what we need.

 

[Jag68Sid87]

My issue isn't really with Howard. He's a good target.

My issue is how they would have handled Rakell in this hypothetical.

If they traded him at the deadline for one of the crazy packages teams were throwing around at the time and then used some of that to get Howard, great.

If they wanted to keep him because they are looking to be better next year, fine. I disagree with the direction, but at least it's a direction.

Trading him just a few months later, for less than they could have got, when it was clear they weren't going to make the playoffs, to have a shot at a good-not-great prospect like Howard, would be a sign they don't really have a plan and are just winging it.



But it's not worth much more consideration at this point because I don't think they are going to trade Rakell.

This is all because of this perceived narrative that we are suddenly worse because Sullivan is gone.

It will take about 5 regular-season games (if not sooner) to realize that the narrative was/is complete and total B.S.

 

[DesertedPenguin]

So basically, Malkin is our best forward and Acciari our worst lol

As JFresh wrote, it's really just for shits and giggles. Don't mistake activity for effectiveness.

And it's also another reason why per/60 stats suck. They give higher marks to guys with less ice time even though there is no guarantee that their rates won't decline with decreased usage.