Salary Cap: 24-25 Salary Thread Crosbicles Volume MXVI: End of season wrap up

[Gurglesons]

It still sickens me Philly got Michkov that year. Hes going to end up the best player in that draft. We should have just embraced the suck earlier.

Don't sleep on Fantilli.

 

[CheckingLineCenter]

I think Cristall putting up similar numbers to McKenna and McKenna's no show at the WJC makes me question how much better he is than Bedard.

The u18 last year really did it for me. I thought McKenna was truly incredible in a way Bedard wasn’t at the same tourney.

To be fair- Bedard was better at the WJC. And McKenna did not have the same impact. And in WJC/junior years they were the “same age” despite it being different draft years.

Who knows. Just think McKenna translates better. Both will be stars though.

 

[Pancakes]

No it isn’t, sucking to get better prospects is and we’ve done a good job with that plan the last two times we have.

Signing Marner 1.5 years after letting Guentzel and just about every other player of significance go is not a plan to me. That makes no sense.

I don't see an issue with it. Marner wouldn't even necessarily stop the tank. Gaudreau didn't for Columbus.

The goal right now is to accumulate top end talent however Dubas can do that. The most obvious route is the draft so that's what he's doing. But if a Marner falls into his lap he'd be a fool not to consider it.

I don't see it happening anyways though.

 

[Big Friggin Dummy]

God, I can't f***ing wait for Marner to sign somewhere else.

Why wouldn't this team go scorched earth for McKenna and Dupont the year after? BTW, scorched earth in this scenario means dealing EK, Rakell and Rust. Not gutting franchise icons or anything. You remove those three guys and this team, even with THE Sidney Crosby, is absolutely bad enough to finish dead last. They were bottom 4 for stretches this season, and that's with Sid playing as well as anybody his age ever has.

Praying for a lottery win isn't a plan.

People keep saying this, but with McKenna, yes it is. You have the potential to get a 100pt winger for the next 20 years if things work out, and the year after, Dupont has the potential to be a #1 d-man for his entire career as well. Even if you miss, you're still drafting top 2 or 3 realistically.

Chasing those guys at the expense of meaningless players like Rakell, Rust and EK--and meaningless seasons as a team like the Pens with where they're at now and moving forward--is 1000% worth doing.

People are always talking about and looking for ways to make the post-Sid years as painless as possible. Those two guys are how you do that, not chasing a 28 year old Marner.

 

[Pancakes]

You don't need NHL talent to get off your shot. Bedard looked great to end the season.

I thought he was going to be a 90-100 pt player immediately. The fact he hasn't had any translatable success and the fact the CHL has generally not been producing top flight NHL talent makes me question how good McKenna actually is.

I'm concerned with Bedard just not having the physical tools to dominate at the NHL level. He's small but he doesn't seem to have amazing skating. His playmaking is good but it's not earthshattering. His shot is his best asset but NHL teams don't let him take it 5v5 and he doesn't have the skating to consistently create his own shot.

I still think he's going to develop into a PPG player because his shot is that good and even if he's doing most of his work on the powerplay that's eventually going to be enough to make him that kind of offensive producer.

 

[BlindWillyMcHurt]

Like seriously I've been sitting here bellyaching about NEEDING to get more pure talent injected into this top six since literally Phil left and I get lectured about smart, heavy, responsible players that can't actually pass or shoot for a shit and clock in at like 5M a year and that's just what to expect but NOW we need Mitch Marner? Really?!?

 

[Gurglesons]

God, I can't f***ing wait for Marner to sign somewhere else.

Why wouldn't this team go scorched earth for McKenna and Dupont the year after? BTW, scorched earth in this scenario means dealing EK, Rakell and Rust. Not gutting franchise icons or anything. You remove those three guys and this team, even with THE Sidney Crosby, is absolutely bad enough to finish dead last. They were bottom 4 for stretches this season, and that's with Sid playing as well as anybody his age ever has.

People keep saying this, but with McKenna, yes it is. You have the potential to get a 100pt winger for the next 20 years if things work out, and the year after, Dupont has the potential to be a #1 d-man for his entire career as well. Even if you miss, you're still drafting top 2 or 3 realistically.

Chasing those guys at the expense of meaningless players like Rakell, Rust and EK--and meaningless seasons as a team like the Pens with where they're at now and moving forward--is 1000% worth doing.

People are always talking about and looking for ways to make the post-Sid years as painless as possible. Those two guys are how you do that, not chasing a 28 year old Marner.

No team has tanked like this successfully essentially since us, Chicago, and LA did.

Florida, Tampa, Colorado did get high draft picks, but largely were attempting to be competitive teams for the majority of the years where they got those high draft picks.

 

[Gurglesons]

I'm concerned with Bedard just not having the physical tools to dominate at the NHL level. He's small but he doesn't seem to have amazing skating. His playmaking is good but it's not earthshattering. His shot is his best asset but NHL teams don't let him take it 5v5 and he doesn't have the skating to consistently create his own shot.

I still think he's going to develop into a PPG player because his shot is that good and even if he's doing most of his work on the powerplay that's eventually going to be enough to make him that kind of offensive producer.

I just think the reality is the CHL is an incredibly weak league right now.

 

[Peat]

Re the whole who much to value a winger thing - I'd say Tampa are probably as good an example of the things you can do with an elite playdriving winger as Chicago. Together they account for a lot of recent-ish cups, and you could argue that the most important offensive play on the Caps and Blues was a winger too.

It's hard for a winger to make that sort of impact because, anything else apart, if they're that good with the puck on their stick they're probably getting moved to C if their defensive game will support it. But they can definitely have an impact.

And tbh, if you're not getting Sid, it looks like arguably the best model is responsible AF two way centre with a wizard on the wing. Probably because Sid aside, no C is that much of a wizard and that responsible.

Moot since there's no way to plan around getting McKenna.

Funniest thing ever would be Dubas actually strips it down to the studs and Jarry has a Vezina year.

Given Jarry's uncanny knack for performing best when it doesn't matter and regressing when it does, this seems weirdly plausible to me.

 

[Pancakes]

People keep saying this, but with McKenna, yes it is.

I don't doubt the capabilities of McKenna, it's just in order to have a good chance at him you have to finish dead last and Dubas isn't going to gut the roster enough to make that happen.

Even picking at #2 the chances are only like 14%. That's garbage. You need to be dead last to have a good chance (25%). We won't be.

 

[SomeDude]

I don't see an issue with it. Marner wouldn't even necessarily stop the tank. Gaudreau didn't for Columbus.

The goal right now is to accumulate top end talent however Dubas can do that. The most obvious route is the draft so that's what he's doing. But if a Marner falls into his lap he'd be a fool not to consider it.

I don't see it happening anyways though.

I personally don’t think we should be modeling anything after Columbus.

I don’t think it’s happening either, but when it doesn’t I fully expect a few meltdowns of why couldn’t we land Marner.

 

[Pancakes]

I just think the reality is the CHL is an incredibly weak league right now.

You might be right. I'm just talking about what I've seen of Bedard in the NHL moreso than anything he did in junior.

 

[Gurglesons]

Re the whole who much to value a winger thing - I'd say Tampa are probably as good an example of the things you can do with an elite playdriving winger as Chicago. Together they account for a lot of recent-ish cups, and you could argue that the most important offensive play on the Caps and Blues was a winger too.

It's hard for a winger to make that sort of impact because, anything else apart, if they're that good with the puck on their stick they're probably getting moved to C if their defensive game will support it. But they can definitely have an impact.

And tbh, if you're not getting Sid, it looks like arguably the best model is responsible AF two way centre with a wizard on the wing. Probably because Sid aside, no C is that much of a wizard and that responsible.

Moot since there's no way to plan around getting McKenna.



Given Jarry's uncanny knack for performing best when it doesn't matter and regressing when it does, this seems weirdly plausible to me.

Tampa has a top ten center in Brayden Point, a selke finalist in Cirelli and in their cup wins had Yanni Gourde who is a 50+ pt guy at 3C.

Kuch was an impactful part of that team, but to say they build the squad around him is just patently false IMO.

 

[SomeDude]

Don't sleep on Fantilli.

Tort-less Michkov is going to explode next year. The only thing that can prevent that is possibly a Rick Tocchet hire, but I think Tocchet is a good enough coach to not get in his way. His system, though, may hinder his numbers a bit.

 

[DesertedPenguin]

We need to bottom out. That’s how we have built championship teams.

But it's not how modern championship teams or most contenders are built.

 

[HandshakeLine]

How are they built?

 

[HandshakeLine]

Do they not acquire high end talent? Most often from early 1st rounds in drafts?

 

[Gurglesons]

Tort-less Michkov is going to explode next year. The only thing that can prevent that is possibly a Rick Tocchet hire, but I think Tocchet is a good enough coach to not get in his way. His system, though, may hinder his numbers a bit.

We will see. I like Michkov's game, but I think Demidov probably is the best young russian and wouldn't be surprised if Yurov goes off next year if he comes over too.

 

[Pancakes]

I personally don’t think we should be modeling anything after Columbus.

I don’t think it’s happening either, but when it doesn’t I fully expect a few meltdowns of why couldn’t we land Marner.

I doubt you'll see freakouts about it. Most people in here don't want Marner and the ones that are more open to the idea aren't the meltdown types.

But yeah agreed it probably doesn't happen. I don't know why Mitch would even consider it outside of the connection to Dubas and his friendship with Crosby. But I don't think those two factors are gonna steer him away from re-signing in Toronto or signing with some team that has a better chance to compete.

 

[Gurglesons]

Do they not acquire high end talent? Most often from early 1st rounds in drafts?

Florida, Tampa and Colorado did have high 1st round picks, but their teams were largely built through trade and taking advantage of situations like Marner.

 

[HandshakeLine]

Florida, Tampa and Colorado did have high 1st round picks, but their teams were largely built through trade and taking advantage of situations like Marner.

But that is also pretty much every team that wins the Cup too. We certainly didn't win those Cup without savvy trades and taking advantage of Kessel's situation, etc. Nobody can build a championship team in house. But who didn't acquire cheap high 1st round picks is more my question?

 

[Gurglesons]

But that is also pretty much every team that wins the Cup too. We certainly didn't win those Cup without savvy trades and taking advantage of Kessel's situation, etc. Nobody can build a championship team in house. But who didn't acquire cheap high 1st round picks is more my question?

Vegas.

 

[Peat]

I doubt you'll see freakouts about it. Most people in here don't want Marner and the ones that are more open to the idea aren't the meltdown types.

But yeah agreed it probably doesn't happen. I don't know why Mitch would even consider it outside of the connection to Dubas and his friendship with Crosby. But I don't think those two factors are gonna steer him away from re-signing in Toronto or signing with some team that has a better chance to compete.

Yup. If it happens, it's because the contenders couldn't or wouldn't afford him, and we were the most attractive option to build his Scrooge McDuck pool. The Dubas/Crosby thing could put them top of the pile if that happens but that's it.

 

[HandshakeLine]

Vegas.

Yeah, but talk about an exceptional case. We'll never have an expansion draft to benefit from.

 

[BlindWillyMcHurt]

lol Vegas had like five billion built-in draft picks from being allowed to poach the rest of the league.