Salary Cap: 24-25 Salary Thread Crosbicles Volume MXVI: End of season wrap up

[SomeDude]

What you'll have with Marner in 2 years is a top tier player that you can trade for more assets if he wants to leave to go to a better team.

Isn’t that the same thing that was said about Karlsson 2 years ago? Now here we are hoping that we can move him without eating the max dead cap.

I don’t think you could expect Marner to be a 100 pt player here. I think his value would decrease from playing here in 2 years. Would it be negative? Probably not, but it’s not exactly unheard of a UFA signing a big ticket, under performing, and then becoming a negative value contract.

Add to that he would surely have full control over a trade so he could pick where he went and I can’t see how he would be a major asset.

 

[Empoleon8771]

I think both sides are right that this team needs to focus on being as bad as possible while also they should absolutely bring in Marner if he wants to play for the Penguins. You can realistically achieve both of those, you just have to have some combination of a bad defense, bad goaltending and bad coaching.

Erik Karlsson put up 100 points and won a Norris with the Sharks in 2022-2023. They finished 22-44-16, which was only 2 points out of dead last in the NHL.

Isn’t that the same thing that was said about Karlsson 2 years ago? Now here we are hoping that we can move him without eating the max dead cap.

I don’t think you could expect Marner to be a 100 pt player here. I think his value would decrease from playing here in 2 years. Would it be negative? Probably not, but it’s not exactly unheard of a UFA signing a big ticket, under performing, and then becoming a negative value contract.

Major difference between a 33 year old Karlsson and a 28 year old Marner. Marner would be more comparable to Miller in this situation, who brought back kinda crappy value but he still brought back value.

 

[CheckingLineCenter]

I guess I just think that a player or Marner's caliber definitely gives them a discernable point increase. I don't think that's crazy at all.

Right now that isn't advantageous IMO. Just give Malkin those minutes next year. That will help ensure things stay nice and shitty.

That’s fair but I disagree. And I also think you can trade off more pieces if he comes.

Point being- Me disagreeing that Marner suddenly pushes us up in the standings doesn’t mean im advocating for us to stop rebuilding and start contending though.

 

[BlindWillyMcHurt]

I mean... OK sure... if Mitch Marner desperately wants to become a Pittsburgh Penguin then by all means.

There that solves that. Because why TF would he ever want to come here?

 

[Peat]

Yeah but I mean... the guys Chicago added were all kinda terrible, right?

I dunno I could be wrong but I definitely think MM could add ten points to the team in the standings.

lol I love you guys but ya'll are SO frustrating sometimes. I BADLY wanted to bring talent... ANY TALENT... on to this team the last few years and everyone was like "WAH WEE WAH WE GOTTA SUCK, NOW!" and here I am suddenly on the other side of the fence with you guys and now we're all like "SIKE!" Geeeez.

For me the big difference between the last few years and now is that prior to now, between a gutted prospect system and a cap situation bound up tighter than Pam Poovey's bowels, good luck actually doing it. They clearly needed to add talent but were going to struggle to do so. We could have kept adding second tier, Rakell like talents, and then sat there no closer to doing anything in the playoffs and a bit further away from actually being able to get a top of the line team changing guy because once again the assets were spent and the cap gone. The one big fish we had a shot at was Karlsson and personally, he was always a scary fit in terms of what the team needed and also scary in terms of cap vs talent, which is how we got him. I was all for him because he was that one shot but hoo boy was I nervous.

Well, now, now things have cleared up a little and Marner can potentially be had solely for the cost of a bloated contract. It's possible now to get that genuine grade A top of the line team changing talent.

I don't know how getting Marner would work out in terms of the pinball machine that is the Penguins' decision making. I don't know what other decisions they'd make around him and which way they'd go.

But now they actually have a shot, if they want to do it, I won't argue. Talent like his comes around too infrequently.

 

[CheckingLineCenter]

Funniest thing ever would be Dubas actually strips it down to the studs and Jarry has a Vezina year.

 

[Gurglesons]

I mean... OK sure... if Mitch Marner desperately wants to become a Pittsburgh Penguin then by all means.

There that solves that. Because why TF would he ever want to come here?

Money. To play with Sid for a few years. Lack of media attention.

 

[Empoleon8771]

I mean... OK sure... if Mitch Marner desperately wants to become a Pittsburgh Penguin then by all means.

There that solves that. Because why TF would he ever want to come here?

Dubas/Crosby connection and $$$$.

That may not seem like that great of a sell, but pretty much any other team with the money to go after him doesn't really have much better of a sell.

 

[Big Friggin Dummy]

Nobody who actually knows puck is saying that.

Tampa's back to back teams were built from the backend with Hedman and Vasi.

It's cringe 100% of the time you say dork shit like "knows puck". Yeah, the guy who posted 66pts in the two playoff runs during those B2B Cups was an afterthought.

I don't really care to get into a classic "pixies digs in and plays contrarian because he thinks he's a hockey savant" discussion tbh.

It doesn't really matter what you or I think. The fact is McKenna's on a 50+ game point streak and he's producing like nobody has since Sid's junior years. He outproduced Bedard's D-1 season by 30pts. He's as good a prospect as a prospect can possibly be, the only knock is that he's not a center.

 

[DearDiary]

Marner is a free asset that can be flipped for assets later on. I see it as:

Marner = 2 1st round picks
13-15 overall
vs
5-10 overall

I would rather have Marner than a top 10 pick, because this team isn't going to rebuild in 1 or 2 seasons.

 

[SomeDude]

Major difference between a 33 year old Karlsson and a 28 year old Marner. Marner would be more comparable to Miller in this situation, who brought back kinda crappy value but he still brought back value.

I just don’t see the upside. Prolonging the mediocrity by a few years to possibly gain a mid 1st and meh peaces down the road when we could just suck it up and go through the pain now and hopefully be trending towards the upswing by then.

 

[CheckingLineCenter]

McKenna looks insane to me. Idc if he’s a wing tbh. We gotta stop thinking you need 4 1Cs.

Chiraq won 3 with an awesome backend, great wingers and Captain Overrated and crew down the middle.

 

[SomeDude]

Marner is a free asset that can be flipped for assets later on. I see it as:

Marner = 2 1st round picks
13-15 overall
vs
5-8 overall

I would rather have Marner than a top 10 pick, because this team isn't going to rebuild in 1 or 2 seasons.

Marner would have a full NMC, be signed to a huge contract after all the teams have already blown their soon to be new found cap space, and is likely going to be coming off statistically down years here playing with much less talent.

I don’t see that bringing significant assets worth changing the perceived current plan of sucking for awhile.

 

[Big Friggin Dummy]

Funniest thing ever would be Dubas actually strips it down to the studs and Jarry has a Vezina year.

Between this and the Knies coming here giving the Leafs McKenna thing, I am formally requesting that you stop trying to make me sad.

 

[Empoleon8771]

I think there's going to be a very active market for Marner, but the main teams that seem to both fit the need and have the money to go after him are teams like Columbus, San Jose, Chicago, Anaheim, Carolina and Utah. None of those look like notably better options than Pittsburgh. IMO Columbus and Utah are the 2 most attractive destinations there.

I think Pittsburgh can pretty easily make a case. Basically tell Marner they're going to have a Washington style retool where they're going to compete again in like 3 years, while he'll be playing with Crosby until he retires (which I'm thinking they'll try to convince Marner it's more like 4-5 years away) and get paid an assload of money.

I just don’t see the upside. Prolonging the mediocrity by a few years to possibly gain a mid 1st and meh peaces down the road when we could just suck it up and go through the pain now and hopefully be trending towards the upswing by then.

The upside is that you luck into a lottery win with McKenna and the McKenna-Marner duo torches the NHL from 2026 through like 2031.

 

[CheckingLineCenter]

You could always pass on Marner and still have a Flames type year and over perform and draft 15th. Whatever though. Beating this to death - think it’s pretty clear what everyone thinks lmao.

 

[Gurglesons]

It's cringe 100% of the time you say dork shit like "knows puck". Yeah, the guy who posted 66pts in the two playoff runs during those B2B Cups was an afterthought.

I don't really care to get into a classic "pixies digs in and plays contrarian because he thinks he's a hockey savant" discussion tbh.

It doesn't really matter what you or I think. The fact is McKenna's on a 50+ game point streak and he's producing like nobody has since Sid's junior years. He outproduced Bedard's D-1 season by 30pts. He's as good a prospect as a prospect can possibly be, the only knock is that he's not a center.

CHL has become a weaker league over the last few years.

McKenna's upside is Patrick Kane.

Chicago's years when they won the cup were not through Patrick Kane. He was the 3rd most important player on those teams. Argubably 4th depending on how you value Hossa or Seabrook.

 

[BlindWillyMcHurt]

Alright well I guess I can't help but feel a bit gaslit as someone who has been getting dunked on for years for wanting to get a guy in the same neighborhood as MM to help spread the talent around a little in the top six. You know... WHILE the core was worth a shit. But NOW is the time? I don't get it but whatever. Have at it.

 

[Gurglesons]

I just don’t see the upside. Prolonging the mediocrity by a few years to possibly gain a mid 1st and meh peaces down the road when we could just suck it up and go through the pain now and hopefully be trending towards the upswing by then.

The upside is you have top talent to play with your youth.

People expecting a Buffalo / Chicago style tear down in PIT are not following what Dubas is saying and doing.

 

[SomeDude]

The upside is that you luck into a lottery win with McKenna and the McKenna-Marner duo torches the NHL from 2026 through like 2031.

Our best way to luck into a McKenna win is not signing Marner. Marner + last year Sid could be capable of making a lottery win impossible.

How about we just stick with the plan of praying for a McKenna lottery win and then worrying about building around him?

 

[Gurglesons]

Our best way to luck into a McKenna win is not signing Marner. Marner + last year Sid could be capable of making a lottery win impossible.

How about we just stick with the plan of praying for a McKenna lottery win and then worrying about building around him?

This isn't the plan. So, if you think that is what the focus of the Penguins will be this upcoming year, you will be disappointed.

 

[CheckingLineCenter]

CHL has become a weaker league over the last few years.

McKenna's upside is Patrick Kane.

Chicago's years when they won the cup were not through Patrick Kane. He was the 3rd most important player on those teams. Argubably 4th depending on how you value Hossa or Seabrook.

Ehhh he won a Smythe. Had a run with 28 in 22.

I think Keith was the guy that really propelled them in the actual runs but Kane was the best player on the best team 3x and is prob the 4th best player of that era after 87, 71, 8.

It is very similar to Kuch.

Are we not gonna take a Kuch or Kane.

 

[SomeDude]

This isn't the plan. So, if you think that is what the focus of the Penguins will be this upcoming year, you will be disappointed.

Oh, I know I’m going to be disappointed. Disappointment is the name of Kyle Dubas’ cologne.

I just want to be able to at least say maybe they should have listened to me.

 

[Turin]

Praying for a lottery win isn’t a plan you can really sell to anyone besides a few fans on HF unless you’re a strip it all down team like SJ or Chicago which they aren’t

 

[Gurglesons]

Ehhh he won a Smythe. Had a run with 28 in 22.

I think Keith was the guy that really propelled them in the actual runs but Kane was the best player on the best team 3x and is prob the 4th best player of that era after 87, 71, 8.

Most Hawks fans say he shouldn't have won that Smythe.

McKenna would be a nice piece to add, but much like Bedard this team will still stink with just him as our main piece.

I just don't see the reason to go scorched earth for him.

If he falls into our laps, I'll obviously be excited.