Salary Cap: - 24-25 Salary Thread Crosbicles Volume MXVI: End of season wrap up | Page 34 | HFBoards - NHL Message Board and Forum for National Hockey League

Salary Cap: 24-25 Salary Thread Crosbicles Volume MXVI: End of season wrap up

Status
Not open for further replies.
If the Leafs get another first round banner they're paying Marner 14.5 x 8 so the talk (wishlist) is moot anyway.

I'd like him because the slow bleed we're doing isn't helping really shuffle-in any meaningful core pieces. The draft position we're setting ourselves up for continuously is for largely [potentially] supporting pieces. Though, there's a Summer ahead of us to see what direction they actually take....hopefully it's no more of this bipolar crap. Compete, or don't.
 
I think it is very cute that everybody is continuing down the tank train now that we have fired our experienced head coach. How can we possibly compete without Mike Sullivan??? Answer: easily.

I just do not believe for a second that this team cannot make the playoffs, sorry. You look at the 18 best teams in the league, including the two best teams that did not make it (Calgary and Columbus). Tell me that our core is so much worse than theirs. Tell me that our roster is so much worse than theirs. Stop looking at false narratives and think for yourselves and think with your eyes and brains. Do you honestly believe that a team with Sidney Crosby as captain, producing 90 points, should be 11 points behind the Montreal frickin' Canadiens? You're nuts if you think so, no offense.

Now, if Kyle Dubas decides to continue to purge the roster, then yeah...we have no chance. You cannot replace an Erik Karlsson or a Rickard Rakell and expect to make the playoffs. Not at this stage in the rest of the core's careers, and not at this stage in the prospects' development. BUT, if you keep the core six together (2 C, 2 D, 2 W), then all bets are off. I will also say that IF he and the management team decide that what is best for the organization is to strip it down completely, I will buy in. Because now you can do whatever you want with this team. You don't have a rather large, mediocre anchor preventing you from doing anything. But I don't think Dubas is going to go down that path.

Look, removing Sullivan is a massive addition by subtraction. Who knows how much that is going to be worth. Every team with a new coach usually gets a bump, but this? This is more like a head-on collision of two 18-wheelers! We have suffered through mediocre-to-horrific coaching for seven straight seasons. And by the end, he was the worst coach in the league. Is he the worst coach in the NHL? It is up to him to prove it elsewhere (thankfully) that he is not but he sure as hell was with this group! And you know when he became the absolute worst head coach in the league? When he could not get this team up for game #81 of the 2022-23 campaign. All we had to do was defeat the worst team in the NHL on home ice to qualify for the playoffs. A team in Chicago that DID NOT WANT TO WIN, people. They wanted Connor Bedard and they were acting like most of the people on this board right now. Tank! Tank! Tank! But Andreas Athanasiou turned into Wayne Gretzky for one night, and this team bowed out (and Florida got in by the skin of their teeth). Mike Sullivan changed NHL history on one night because his give-a-shit meter had been turned up to 11.

I am sure he will be (slightly) more motivated in his new employ, but who cares. Our guys should be more motivated now. The kids should be REALLY motivated to show what they can do sans any preconceived biases by the man behind the bench. The core? Well, that is where Dubas comes in. He obviously has to sell Crosby (especially) and the core that this was the ONLY move possible at this time. But why can't coach X turn things around? Why can't he do for us what Dean Evason did for CBJ? What Ryan Huska did for Cgy? What Spencer Carberry did for Wsh? What Martin St. Louis did for Mtl? Players see what young, or inexperienced, or retreads have done elsewhere. It can happen here, too.

So let's see what Dubas decides to do. He has three options, all far more easily attainable now that the stain on the organization is gone:

- burn it to the ground as so many of you want, which will cost us the captain almost certainly (but might be worth it in the end)

- keep doing what he has been doing, hopefully with fewer bad contracts acquired for future assets. Keep trying to win with the core, but with eyes mostly on the future.

- take one last shot at making the playoffs and going on a run (before burning it to the ground). That would mean adding someone like a Mitch Marner, probably. I don't see a path to multiple-round playoff success without a guy like him, but maybe there is another path.


And maybe Marner now becomes more of a possibility, too. When Dubas talked about NOT acquiring 27-32 year olds this off-season, was he speaking to us (the fans)? The media? Or was he telling his now ex-coach that we are going YOUNG no matter what this time? Was that the last straw.

Honestly, now Dubas can go in any direction. The boat can sail on now, since the anchor has been lifted.
 
Yeah, team just needs basically a brand new blueline top to bottom, two legit scoring line players (2 wingers, or 1 winger and a 2C to slide Geno over), a few good bottom 6ers, and a starting goalie. They're a few simple tweaks away, man.


We're only... what, 7 years into this steep and steady decline? Don't be so hasty to rush into a rebuild. The big guys are still only like 34-39. And Karlsson definitely isn't chomping at the bit to get the f*** outta here. :laugh:

Commit to the tank. Cut out the stupid, half-assed bullshit. And thankfully Dubas' words about shifting to the transition period is a hint they're doing just that.

Also, Sid's not gonna leave. And if he does, oh well.
 
I think it is very cute that everybody is continuing down the tank train now that we have fired our experienced head coach. How can we possibly compete without Mike Sullivan??? Answer: easily.

I just do not believe for a second that this team cannot make the playoffs, sorry. You look at the 18 best teams in the league, including the two best teams that did not make it (Calgary and Columbus). Tell me that our core is so much worse than theirs. Tell me that our roster is so much worse than theirs. Stop looking at false narratives and think for yourselves and think with your eyes and brains. Do you honestly believe that a team with Sidney Crosby as captain, producing 90 points, should be 11 points behind the Montreal frickin' Canadiens? You're nuts if you think so, no offense.

Now, if Kyle Dubas decides to continue to purge the roster, then yeah...we have no chance. You cannot replace an Erik Karlsson or a Rickard Rakell and expect to make the playoffs. Not at this stage in the rest of the core's careers, and not at this stage in the prospects' development. BUT, if you keep the core six together (2 C, 2 D, 2 W), then all bets are off. I will also say that IF he and the management team decide that what is best for the organization is to strip it down completely, I will buy in. Because now you can do whatever you want with this team. You don't have a rather large, mediocre anchor preventing you from doing anything. But I don't think Dubas is going to go down that path.

Look, removing Sullivan is a massive addition by subtraction. Who knows how much that is going to be worth. Every team with a new coach usually gets a bump, but this? This is more like a head-on collision of two 18-wheelers! We have suffered through mediocre-to-horrific coaching for seven straight seasons. And by the end, he was the worst coach in the league. Is he the worst coach in the NHL? It is up to him to prove it elsewhere (thankfully) that he is not but he sure as hell was with this group! And you know when he became the absolute worst head coach in the league? When he could not get this team up for game #81 of the 2022-23 campaign. All we had to do was defeat the worst team in the NHL on home ice to qualify for the playoffs. A team in Chicago that DID NOT WANT TO WIN, people. They wanted Connor Bedard and they were acting like most of the people on this board right now. Tank! Tank! Tank! But Andreas Athanasiou turned into Wayne Gretzky for one night, and this team bowed out (and Florida got in by the skin of their teeth). Mike Sullivan changed NHL history on one night because his give-a-shit meter had been turned up to 11.

I am sure he will be (slightly) more motivated in his new employ, but who cares. Our guys should be more motivated now. The kids should be REALLY motivated to show what they can do sans any preconceived biases by the man behind the bench. The core? Well, that is where Dubas comes in. He obviously has to sell Crosby (especially) and the core that this was the ONLY move possible at this time. But why can't coach X turn things around? Why can't he do for us what Dean Evason did for CBJ? What Ryan Huska did for Cgy? What Spencer Carberry did for Wsh? What Martin St. Louis did for Mtl? Players see what young, or inexperienced, or retreads have done elsewhere. It can happen here, too.

So let's see what Dubas decides to do. He has three options, all far more easily attainable now that the stain on the organization is gone:

- burn it to the ground as so many of you want, which will cost us the captain almost certainly (but might be worth it in the end)

- keep doing what he has been doing, hopefully with fewer bad contracts acquired for future assets. Keep trying to win with the core, but with eyes mostly on the future.

- take one last shot at making the playoffs and going on a run (before burning it to the ground). That would mean adding someone like a Mitch Marner, probably. I don't see a path to multiple-round playoff success without a guy like him, but maybe there is another path.


And maybe Marner now becomes more of a possibility, too. When Dubas talked about NOT acquiring 27-32 year olds this off-season, was he speaking to us (the fans)? The media? Or was he telling his now ex-coach that we are going YOUNG no matter what this time? Was that the last straw.

Honestly, now Dubas can go in any direction. The boat can sail on now, since the anchor has been lifted.
Great contribution! I hope and believe that Dubas will continue on the path it has taken so far.



At the end of the day, I'm happy with that and will follow the Pens more closely next year if he can get a young, hungry team on the ice. Plus an innovative coaching staff that gives players enough room to make mistakes and grow. If the team makes a run and is in contention for the playoffs, then of course I'll be happy. But please, no more unnecessary veterans like the Nietos of the world.
 
Yeah, team just needs basically a brand new blueline top to bottom, two legit scoring line players (2 wingers, or 1 winger and a 2C to slide Geno over), a few good bottom 6ers, and a starting goalie. They're a few simple tweaks away, man.


We're only... what, 7 years into this steep and steady decline? Don't be so hasty to rush into a rebuild. The big guys are still only like 34-39. And Karlsson definitely isn't chomping at the bit to get the f*** outta here. :laugh:

Commit to the tank. Cut out the stupid, half-assed bullshit. And thankfully Dubas' words about shifting to the transition period is a hint they're doing just that.

Also, Sid's not gonna leave. And if he does, oh well.

I want them to compete. Most of us very likely do too.

Your first sentence is the drum we've been beating since Jake was here. Things have only gotten worse and this teams' idea of a big move is grabbing Hayes or Heinen. We're not that team anymore. We need big fish.

Now, I'm all for it. At some point - any point - we're gonna need big fish. So whether we do that now or in 2030 makes little difference to me. Highly unlikely we land McKenna and so - go for it.

The biggest problem is the marginal tweaks - that work their way to irrelevancy - when this roster needs HUGE tweaks, yesteryear. That needs to start before the draft, continue into the draft, and onward after the draft.

I lean towards pessimism because this front office has never shown itself capable of doing that [5-6 major moves in a short time] - and with pessimism comes utter confusion on why we're not selling the other pieces on this roster with value - but not enough clout to make a playoff push. Dead horse but it will continue because regardless of all the talk of a plan - I've only seen abstract action(s).
 
Sullian moving on gives reason for hope on a lot of fronts.

It means Dubas isn't buying into the win at all costs now mentality that Sullivan had with a roster that wasn't really capable of winning. Which means vets are more likely to be dealt for youth, and young players might be able to play through some growing pains.

It means that even if guys like Karlsson and Graves aren't dealt this summer, they could rebound under a new system better suited to their strengths.

It means that Sullivan's "duos" aren't a foregone conclusion.

It means that the relationships built during the 2016 and 2017 runs aren't going to dictate TOI and lineups, and merit might be restored.
 
I think it is very cute that everybody is continuing down the tank train now that we have fired our experienced head coach. How can we possibly compete without Mike Sullivan??? Answer: easily.
depending on the replacement, it's quite possible. and why we need to clean house this offseason. no reason to take a chance on just making the playoffs. there is no chance we could do more. so why waste the chance to start replacing the core.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Jared Grayden
I just do not believe for a second that this team cannot make the playoffs, sorry. You look at the 18 best teams in the league, including the two best teams that did not make it (Calgary and Columbus). Tell me that our core is so much worse than theirs.
Our core is so much older, and therefore, worse than theirs.
Tell me that our roster is so much worse than theirs.
Our roster is so much older, and therefore, so much worse than theirs.
Stop looking at false narratives and think for yourselves and think with your eyes and brains. Do you honestly believe that a team with Sidney Crosby as captain, producing 90 points, should be 11 points behind the Montreal frickin' Canadiens?
No, I don't think that a team whose best player is 37 years old should be 11 points behind the Montreal Canadiens.
I think a team whose best player is 37 years old should be 21 points behind the Montreal Canadiens.
- take one last shot at making the playoffs and going on a run (before burning it to the ground). That would mean adding someone like a Mitch Marner, probably. I don't see a path to multiple-round playoff success without a guy like him, but maybe there is another path.
Acquiring Marner would solve the massive problem of a team whose best player is over 35 and therefore too old to make the playoffs. It would have to be Marner or a player almost as good as he is, though.
It would require more than Marner (Hague? Byram? Gavrikov?), though. But sure, maybe that would work.
 
Last edited:
Yeah the Penguins are miles from a playoff team at this point. I'm not a "tear down everything and rebuild" guy, simply because I don't think tearing down everything rebuilds generally don't work, but trying to make this team into a playoff team is a fool's errand.
 
I appreciate the enthusiasm Jags... I really, really do especially as someone who wanted to go down swinging but this era is utterly spent. There is approximately one guy on the whole team that I could see on a true contending roster. The rest are varying shades of mediocre to flat out bad. No coach or lack of coach is helping where they are, now.
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: Buddy Bizarre
There's a difference between a Cup contender and a playoff team.

Their window for Cup contender is long over, but they just cleared the biggest hurdle to become a playoff team and they've got cap room. Let's see what Dubas does with it. They need 2 LD and a scoring line winger so to not force too many young guys into prominent roles.

Rakell - Crosby - Rust
LW - Malkin - Koivunen
McGroarty - Novak - Tomasino
whatever combination of Lizotte, , Dewar, Pono, Heinen, Hallander, Hayes, etc.

LD - Letang
LD - Karlsson
Pickering/Graves - Timmins

With reasonable fill-ins, I don't think it's unreasonable that team competes for a playoff spot. Whether they should try to compete for a playoff spot or sell off assets and embrace the rebuild is debatable, though, I think they are going to try to win.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Gurglesons
As an example:

-Karlsson at 50% to Carolina for Walker and a 2026 1st
-Rakell to the LAK for Pinelli and a 2025 1st
-Get paid Edmonton's 2026 2nd to take on Kane
-Give up a pick (probably a 3rd if I had to guess) to trade for Hague's RFA rights
-Trade Acciari to anyone that would give up anything of value for him

If Kane isn't broken and can actually play:

McGroarty-Crosby-Rust
Kane-Malkin-Koivunen
Heinen-Novak-Tomasino
Dewar-Lizotte-Ponomarev
Hallander-Hayes

Hague-Letang
Pickering-Walker
Graves-Brunicke
Shea

Jarry-Nedjelkovic

If Kane is broken, even better because you open up another forward spot for someone like Hallander to take.
It's cute you think Carolina is giving up a 1st for an older star when they have no history doing so. They didn't give one up for Burns or even Jake. Burns brought back Lorentz, goalie prospect and a 3rd 2023 with retention. I doubt they do any different with a 35 year old Karlsson.

Might want to look at their history. Carolina are Known cheapskates.
 
It's cute you think Carolina is giving up a 1st for an older star when they have no history doing so. They didn't give one up for Burns or even Jake. Burns brought back Lorentz, goalie prospect and a 3rd 2023 with retention. I doubt they do any different with a 35 year old Karlsson.

Might want to look at their history. Carolina are Known cheapskates.

I think the 1st is more so for us eating 5 million for 2 years versus any value of EK65.
 
It's cute you think Carolina is giving up a 1st for an older star when they have no history doing so. They didn't give one up for Burns or even Jake. Burns brought back Lorentz, goalie prospect and a 3rd 2023 with retention. I doubt they do any different with a 35 year old Karlsson.

Might want to look at their history. Carolina are Known cheapskates.

1. The Penguins are eating far more money than San Jose did on the Burns trade
2. The flat cap doesn’t exist anymore, which hurt Burns’ value.
3. The Penguins are taking back Walker’s contract, which isn’t a positive value contract
 
1. The Penguins are eating far more money than San Jose did on the Burns trade
2. The flat cap doesn’t exist anymore, which hurt Burns’ value.
3. The Penguins are taking back Walker’s contract, which isn’t a positive value contract
I think the problem is the NMC

If EK only waives for a single team I legit think there is a chance we may get like a conditional 4th and that’s it
 
I think the problem is the NMC

If EK only waives for a single team I legit think there is a chance we may get like a conditional 4th and that’s it

Burns actually had only a 3 team trade list, so it wasn't much different.

"He could only be traded to three teams (as part of his no-trade clause), and initially we weren't one of those three teams,” Waddell said. “I can remember talking to (Sharks GM) Mike Grier about it, and 15 minutes later, he called back saying that Burns would approve a trade to us"
 
for his full contract? Probably yes. If the Pens take on part of the salary, then Karlsson definitely has value
In a vacuum

But if he can only go to 1 team and Dubas views it as necessary to move him then not really.

Only way to extract value is by being legitimately willing to keep him if you don’t get an offer you are happy with. Which I’m not sure is the case.
 
If this team pays EK's bonus due on July 1st, and retains 50% (which I'm really skeptical of, cuz Dubas seems to hate retaining big money), they might be able to snag some value in an EK trade. Probably nothing significant, beyond maybe a late 1st or decent prospect, but something. Otherwise, yeah, I think this team's getting like a Kessel to Arizona type return--which is to say, dogshit.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Users who are viewing this thread

Ad

Ad