Salary Cap: 24-25 Salary Thread Crosbicles Volume MXVI: End of season wrap up

[Gurglesons]

We didn't do a great job "complementing" the d-pairing this year. Like, ideally, you run pairings like Dumo-Letang, Pettersson-Karlsson. When you have guys like Gryz with either, it's a recipe for disaster because neither plays a "cover for my partner" style game. Now, in all fairness, Letang and Karlsson should be able to do what they want and have a partner to cover for them. I thought Pettersson did a pretty good job overall with both, but once he was rightfully traded, the bottom fell out.

I don't think we are competing for a cup anytime soon so something would be looking to do is rebalance the d-pairings while capitalizing on assets. That means moving EK to a team like Carolina for a younger prospect (like Scott Morrow as I've suggest) and you can looking to bring in a semi-reliable dman for the RD. You can then resign Gryz who I thought was decent enough or you can push up Timmons which I would also be fine with. We know LD is an issue, so go get one.

Byram/Hague - Letang
Gryz - Timmons
Pickering - Shea/JSI/etc

I think something like that serves a lot of "greater good" purposes.

Is the greater good to have the worst defense in the league?

 

[DesertedPenguin]

So you're proposing we enter into next season with a d group of..

Byram - Letang
Graves - Jokiharju
Shea - Timmins

?

I'd go something like

Byram - Letang
Pickering - Jokiharju
Kolyachonok - Timmins
x - Shea, Graves

I'm not under any illusion of that group being an elite defensive group. But I think it'd be about presenting opportunity - Byram to get out of Buffalo and get a fresh start to show the talent he's flashed on occasion, Jokiharju to reset his game (he seems to have been better in Boston after the trade, but it's hard to say with how hard they collapsed), Pickering to claim a fulltime NHL spot, Timmins to show more after a solid start to his Penguins career, etc.

Maybe they all fall flat. But it'd be something worth monitoring, at least.

 

[Gurglesons]

I'd go something like

Byram - Letang
Pickering - Jokiharju
Kolyachonok - Timmins
x - Shea, Graves

I'm not under any illusion of that group being an elite defensive group. But I think it'd be about presenting opportunity - Byram to get out of Buffalo and get a fresh start to show the talent he's flashed on occasion, Jokiharju to reset his game (he seems to have been better in Boston after the trade, but it's hard to say with how hard they collapsed), Pickering to claim a fulltime NHL spot, Timmins to show more after a solid start to his Penguins career, etc.

Maybe they all fall flat. But it'd be something worth monitoring, at least.

This is a San Jose level defense.

 

[DesertedPenguin]

This is a San Jose level defense.

The Penguins weren't far off from having a San Jose level defense this year. Only Chicago and the Sharks gave up more goals than the Penguins.

So if you're going to risk being bad, I'd rather it be while seeing what you have in some younger players.

 

[Empoleon8771]

Orlov-Letang
Byram-Ceci
Pickering-Timmins
Shea

This is the kind of defense they should be shooting for next year to have. I'm also not sold on Pickering as an immediately starter and wouldn't mind sending him back down to WBS to start next year.

 

[Gurglesons]

The Penguins weren't far off from having a San Jose level defense this year. Only Chicago and the Sharks gave up more goals than the Penguins.

So if you're going to risk being bad, I'd rather it be while seeing what you have in some younger players.

Joker will be 26 next year.

Timmins 27.

We all know if you have Koly, Pickering and Byram as your top 3 LHD, Mike Sullivan will be playing Graves and Shea.

So you're looking at...

Byram - Letang
Graves - Joker
Shea - Timmins

I mean, cool I guess.

 

[DesertedPenguin]

Joker will be 26 next year.

Timmins 27.

We all know if you have Koly, Pickering and Byram as your top 3 LHD, Mike Sullivan will be playing Graves and Shea.

So you're looking at...

Byram - Letang
Graves - Joker
Shea - Timmins

I mean, cool I guess.

I look at players like Joker/Timmins - or other players in a similar age range - as potential bridge guys as the Penguins replenish their defensive prospect pool. But I'd rather give guys who are 26/27 a look than pick up another Grzelyck or someone in their 30s.

As for your other comment, at some point, Dubas needs to put his foot down and insist that certain players be elevated over others. Because I agree that Sullivan may not give proper playing time to some younger defensemen, although he did elevate Pickering for a while.

Now, maybe Dubas isn't high on Kolyachonok either and he was just a flier because of the injuries they had at that point (same reason they brought back POJ). But Dubas needs to set up the roster and be clear in his expectations for who should get an opportunity.

 

[Gurglesons]

Orlov-Letang
Byram-Ceci
Pickering-Timmins
Shea

This is the kind of defense they should be shooting for next year to have. I'm also not sold on Pickering as an immediately starter and wouldn't mind sending him back down to WBS to start next year.

I'd be more inclined to run something like this, but Dubas specifically mentioned not signing 30+ year olds.

I think Ceci and Orlov probably get 3+ years and I think that is also the issue with people assuming Gryz coming back.

The UFA D market is so bad and teams are flush with cash.

 

[DesertedPenguin]

I'd be more inclined to run something like this, but Dubas specifically mentioned not signing 30+ year olds.

I think Ceci and Orlov probably get 3+ years and I think that is also the issue with people assuming Gryz coming back.

The UFA D market is so bad and teams are flush with cash.

Yeah, I understand where Emp was coming from, but I would much rather Dubas do what he said and avoid the 30+ market. Because I think you're absolutely right that guys like Ceci, Orlov, and Gryz are going to get paid on multi-year deals.

That's why I'd rather go for guys who other teams might have soured on but are youngish (25-27) along with an RFA trade or two.

I think the increased cap makes it even tougher to gauge potential contracts AND what the asking price will be in potential trades for RFAs. It's going to be a weird market.

 

[JackFr]

Byram - Fabbro
Dumoulin - Letang
Graves/Pickering - Timmins

(btw love everyone pencilling in byram now, proud to have poisoned your brains like this)

 

[Gurglesons]

Byram - Fabbro
Dumoulin - Letang
Graves/Pickering - Timmins

(btw love everyone pencilling in byram now, proud to have poisoned your brains like this)

I think if you're the Penguins next year you look at teams like Los Angeles or Washington and trying to peel away a player like Spence or TVR to help with their D logjam for a 2nd or a 3rd. If not get paid to take Nick Leddy.

I assume you're taking a cap dump back with EK65 if you are moving him. If Carolina takes him that would be cool and potentially you get back a Chatfield or Walker.

Rather do that then invest in UFAs. If you want to throw in Byram since that's what we are doing now.

Something like..

Byram - Letang
Graves - Walker
TVR - Timmins

Hate it, but like..

 

[SEALBound]

Is the greater good to have the worst defense in the league?

Next year, yes.

 

[Honour Over Glory]

Speaking of goalies -

Anyone have a beat on Murray? Obviously has a special place for being our cup goalie [nod to obvious things here that get ignored until they become revelations: goalie who is just calm versus doing too much / net front player + grit (Hornqvist) / steady defense (Cole/Daley)...coach needing to be fired....ermmm]

...but yeah - his play obviously fell off but is he still trying to make a push or riding to the sunset?

I thought he was in the Leafs system still.

 

[Gurglesons]

I thought he was in the Leafs system still.

He was in the AHL the majority of the year with the marlies.

 

[Honour Over Glory]

He was in the AHL the majority of the year with the marlies.

No that's what I thought. Unless someone heard something I didn’t like he retired. I recall he re-signed in the summer and was doing ok-ish for the Marlies.

 

[Jag68Sid87]

? - Karlsson
Pickering-Letang
Graves-Brunicke
Kolyachonok

Candidates for ?

UFAs - Lindgren, Forbort, Dumoulin, Gavrikov among others
trades - Jonas Brodin, Nicolas Hague (for Bryan Rust, maybe?)
trade for younger player (Elias Pettersson, William Wallinder, Ethan Del Mastro among others)

If you are going to stink because you refuse to can the coach, at least give the younger D-men a chance to showcase themselves and gain experience for when the team is good again/the coach is gone.

 

[Empoleon8771]

I would be absolutely floored for both Pickering and Brunicke to make the team next year. I'm thinking even one of them making the team is only about a 50/50 shot.

Their defense will probably be something like:

Dumoulin (UFA)-Letang
Byram (trade for his RFA rights)-Walker (EK to Carolina trade)
Shea-Timmins
Graves

 

[Jag68Sid87]

Pickering is ready. I have no idea why they ghosted him in the second half of the season. They would have been closer to a playoff spot with him. He and Letang worked well together.

I mean, I DO KNOW why he was ghosted but still.

 

[Empoleon8771]

Dubas talked specifically about Pickering at the end of season press conference.

“He’s got to have a real strong playoff here for Wilkes-Barre and he’s got to have a great summer,” Dubas said. “We can’t have him the same as (when) we had him go down, settling into a 12-13-minute-a-night role. He needs to come in and push his way into 17-18-19-20 minutes and earn that.”

The reason he was sent down was because he wasn't pushing to get higher in the lineup in their eyes. He was very critical of Pickering in that discussion, it seems pretty clear that they weren't satisfied with his performance in the NHL. He was "ghosted" because they didn't think he did anything to warrant getting more minutes, which isn't something you want out of a young guy coming up.

 

[SEALBound]

From what I took from Kyle's comments was - they want him to come in and take the spot. Take the next step after "I'm a new guy and I'm here to get a couple games and figure the NHL out." They want him to assert himself and that play with your dick hanging out confidence.

It would help if we decreased a large number of 8/9/10 depth guys though. Sullivan not having a buffet style choice each game would help give a little comfort in the role.

 

[Jag68Sid87]

I don't know what the GM is talking about. Pickering looked very solid. He is clearly not a finished product yet but is also clearly good enough to be in the NHL when he develops the rest of his game. He needs to be challenged, I agree.

He can only be challenged in the NHL. Of course you want him to win a job out of training camp. Duh. But we are the Pittsburgh Penguins, where journeymen become regulars and prospects get sent down to play the right way.

 

[Jacob]

I think it’s just him politely saying that they didn’t wanna ruin Pickering by leaving him in the NHL on a bad team.

I also think there’s an attempt at character-building going on. They want to toughen up these younger guys, or see how they respond to public critique.

 

[bambamcam4ever]

? - Karlsson
Pickering-Letang
Graves-Brunicke
Kolyachonok

Candidates for ?

UFAs - Lindgren, Forbort, Dumoulin, Gavrikov among others
trades - Jonas Brodin, Nicolas Hague (for Bryan Rust, maybe?)
trade for younger player (Elias Pettersson, William Wallinder, Ethan Del Mastro among others)

If you are going to stink because you refuse to can the coach, at least give the younger D-men a chance to showcase themselves and gain experience for when the team is good again/the coach is gone.

When that's the rest of your defense it doesn't really matter who the coach is.

 

[Factorial]

Dubas talked specifically about Pickering at the end of season press conference.



The reason he was sent down was because he wasn't pushing to get higher in the lineup in their eyes. He was very critical of Pickering in that discussion, it seems pretty clear that they weren't satisfied with his performance in the NHL. He was "ghosted" because they didn't think he did anything to warrant getting more minutes, which isn't something you want out of a young guy coming up.

But the go to here is Sully don't like them kids and won't give 'em a chance to play.

 

[cygnus47]

I kinda understand when you have a contender you don’t want to have kids coming up screwing up the chemistry and making bad mistakes even if they’re talented. But when you suck, the veterans are sloppy and lazy and you still demand perfection from kids before they stick? Either you’re protecting guys from a toxic situation or you’re out of your mind.