Salary Cap: 24-25 Salary Thread Crosbicles Volume MXVI: End of season wrap up

[Invalid cuz QoC]

I mean.......McDavid would win here.

Just pray they get swept by LA and the universe will make it happen. You know he wants to play at least one season with Sid.

 

[Jacob]

I could see Edmonton actually giving up a small asset for Jarry if we eat some of his cap hit. A Jarry at like 3.5 million cap hit has value IMO, if only like a 3rd round pick.

 

[DesertedPenguin]

That's kind of my read on the situation.

It's just funny to me because the Penguins have a few decent goaltending prospects (the strength of their overall pool rn maybe?) and some NHL guys who clearly need some work. Soooooooooooo... one would think an experienced goaltending coach with a track record of success would be something they'd want to look into. Maybe they are in short supply though IDK. I mean good goaltenders are so perhaps that translates to the coaching side of things, too lol

The trend sort of seems to be that the goalies almost dictate the goaltending coach, at least at the NHL level. At least, that seemed to be home things have gone in Pittsburgh. Mike Bales was let go because he had ties to Marc-Andre Fleury and Flower was headed to Vegas, while Mike Buckley was close with Matt Murray. When Murray struggled and Jarry took over - and then struggled - Buckley was canned. That led to Chiodo, who had been working as the goaltending development coach.

So, who knows. I think a new voice is definitely worth it.

I'd also like to see Ty Hennes reassigned an actual tactician added to the coaching staff if they're not going to fire Sullivan. Hennes is a strength and conditioning guy. That's fine. You need them. He doesn't need to be a full-fledged assistant. Get someone with some ideas.

 

[Honour Over Glory]

I remember Dubas also made a comment about Pickering struggling when I didn’t think he was. Kind of weird. But I agree he shouldn’t just be handed a spot, he’s still pretty green.

Literally everyone struggles under Sullivan. The issue is Dubas is too dumb a f*** to see it like every f***ing wanker that has the power to fire that piece of shit.

Sullivan is more the bloke that would try the player with Sid and when that stopped working he would just demote them and use them like shit until they got hot again and a line was playing well only for Sullivan to sabotage it to force that player to Sid again.

Koivunen had 3pts in 4 games with Geno, so naturally he gets stripped of Koivunen and gets back Rakell but also has to take Heinen as a winger again. It’s the same shit every f***ing time. Koivunen kept producing but Sid’s line was pretty mid for chances and other metrics in comparison to Koivunen’s play with Malkin in almost the same sample size.

In what world does a coach think that’s logical?

Player V plays very well with player M.
Coach moves Player V off M’s line to play with player S.
Player V keeps playing his game but S has his line be less effective and Player V was better with player M.

Now literally repeat that shit for almost 9 f***ing years.

 

[Honour Over Glory]

Mike Sullivan is a stupid self serving douche that only really gives a f*** to pander to Sid and then uses the rest of the line up like absolute garbage. To know that only players have to be accountable and the coach never does, this is a f***ing waste of time.

 

[Honour Over Glory]

The trend sort of seems to be that the goalies almost dictate the goaltending coach, at least at the NHL level. At least, that seemed to be home things have gone in Pittsburgh. Mike Bales was let go because he had ties to Marc-Andre Fleury and Flower was headed to Vegas, while Mike Buckley was close with Matt Murray. When Murray struggled and Jarry took over - and then struggled - Buckley was canned. That led to Chiodo, who had been working as the goaltending development coach.

So, who knows. I think a new voice is definitely worth it.

I'd also like to see Ty Hennes reassigned an actual tactician added to the coaching staff if they're not going to fire Sullivan. Hennes is a strength and conditioning guy. That's fine. You need them. He doesn't need to be a full-fledged assistant. Get someone with some ideas.

A lot of teams don’t “bring the goalie coach that the goalie prefers” - they hire a goalie coach that understands the position has to adapt and evolve and coaches them to work within those parameters. The goalie coaching the goalie prefers hasn’t worked consistently - they’ve been through Bales, Buckley, and Chiodo now.

It’s kind of odd that Dubas, the one thing he’s done very well is hire a lot of very good people to bring the Penguins up to date everywhere in every department but somehow just ignores the coaching staff for the Pens entirely. It’s quite the blind spot.

Kain Tisi has done a very good job with every goalie in WBS and there’s a lot of different styles he was working with and that’s what you want, imo. All wbs goalies found ways to get better under him.

Under Chiodo the last 3 seasons, it’s been trending down quite steadily and they moved on from Bales and Buckley for less.

 

[molon labe]

Speaking of goalies -

Anyone have a beat on Murray? Obviously has a special place for being our cup goalie [nod to obvious things here that get ignored until they become revelations: goalie who is just calm versus doing too much / net front player + grit (Hornqvist) / steady defense (Cole/Daley)...coach needing to be fired....ermmm]

...but yeah - his play obviously fell off but is he still trying to make a push or riding to the sunset?

 

[Penguin Suited Up]

Speaking of goalies -

Anyone have a beat on Murray? Obviously has a special place for being our cup goalie [nod to obvious things here that get ignored until they become revelations: goalie who is just calm versus doing too much / net front player + grit (Hornqvist) / steady defense (Cole/Daley)...coach needing to be fired....ermmm]

...but yeah - his play obviously fell off but is he still trying to make a push or riding to the sunset?

I’m glad he got paid. Imagine starting your career with 2 Cup wins and never getting the payoff contract.

 

[molon labe]

I’m glad he got paid. Imagine starting your career with 2 Cup wins and never getting the payoff contract.

Probably loads of situations like this. Where you truly have an impact but then fall off for whatever reason(s) and miss out on the big payday.

But yeah I was happy to see some bigger money get thrown his way. Always hoped he would rebound but honestly never heard anything more about him after he got signed in Toronto a few years ago. Seemed like a good kid who wasn't falling off for anything other than injuries etc. Nothing in the way of partying too much or not putting in the work. Someone you'd root for at least at the surface without knowing much else.

 

[Ugene Magic]

Probably loads of situations like this. Where you truly have an impact but then fall off for whatever reason(s) and miss out on the big payday.

But yeah I was happy to see some bigger money get thrown his way. Always hoped he would rebound but honestly never heard anything more about him after he got signed in Toronto a few years ago. Seemed like a good kid who wasn't falling off for anything other than injuries etc. Nothing in the way of partying too much or not putting in the work. Someone you'd root for at least at the surface without knowing much else.

I mean, the team was maxed out with depth at every position. The fact they started letting guys go and trading off key players/elements to their success and not replacing them had big impacts on the goalies.

Murray barely played in 2015/16 and he was only there for the latter half of the 2016/17 playoffs.

I think Murray was a hit at the right time in that little moment in time considering he helped win 2 cups in his rookie campaign.

He'll be known for being like a one hit wonder like song.

 

[IcedCapp]

Performance doesn't matter in this discussion.

The crucial issue is that you stated there appears to be no interest in trading Karlsson, yet there are examples where Dubas has outright said a player has a big role to play in the future of the Penguins and then traded that player a month later.

I don't think anyone can say with any certainty what will happen, but I don't think anyone should have the impression that Karlsson's a lock to stay with the Penguins.

I swear there were multiple reports before the deadline, both local and national, that we were open to moving him but it was more likely to be an off-season deal because of the contract

 

[IcedCapp]

Team Sweden is stacked with defensively responsible teammates. The Penguins are one of the weakest defensive lineups in the league. Even if you're disappointed with Karlsson, I do not know how anyone could think trading him will not make the defense worse next year. Letang was way worse than Karlsson was this year. At his age he'll probably be even worse next year. I have no problem trading him at all for futures. But I hope fans are prepared to have an even worse defense.

I don’t think it will make the defence worse. Mostly because I think this defence is, practically, rock bottom. Sure, it’ll technically get worse, less-skilled if you move EK, but it’s not like EK was some stabilizing force back there.

We’ve reached terminal velocity with our D and Gs

 

[Jared Grayden]

I don’t think it will make the defence worse. Mostly because I think this defence is, practically, rock bottom. Sure, it’ll technically get worse, less-skilled if you move EK, but it’s not like EK was some stabilizing force back there.

We’ve reached terminal velocity with our D and Gs

From an actual defending perspective I agree. However, Karlsson is still elite offensively and removing him will immediately make the overall offensive threat from the blue line non-existent. Letang is a way worse player overall. Bad defensively and anemic offensively. Gryz was arguably a better dman than Letang this year and he is like a cheap version of Karlsson. I hope they trade Karlsson, but when the offense predictably declines, his absence will be a key reason why.

 

[SEALBound]

We didn't do a great job "complementing" the d-pairing this year. Like, ideally, you run pairings like Dumo-Letang, Pettersson-Karlsson. When you have guys like Gryz with either, it's a recipe for disaster because neither plays a "cover for my partner" style game. Now, in all fairness, Letang and Karlsson should be able to do what they want and have a partner to cover for them. I thought Pettersson did a pretty good job overall with both, but once he was rightfully traded, the bottom fell out.

I don't think we are competing for a cup anytime soon so something would be looking to do is rebalance the d-pairings while capitalizing on assets. That means moving EK to a team like Carolina for a younger prospect (like Scott Morrow as I've suggest) and you can looking to bring in a semi-reliable dman for the RD. You can then resign Gryz who I thought was decent enough or you can push up Timmons which I would also be fine with. We know LD is an issue, so go get one.

Byram/Hague - Letang
Gryz - Timmons
Pickering - Shea/JSI/etc

I think something like that serves a lot of "greater good" purposes.

 

[ikyan]

If Carolina finishes ticking off Nikishin enough that he requests a trade, whats everyone think about a deal around 9OA for him?

 

[BlindWillyMcHurt]

A 6'4" LD putting up double digit goals and 40-50ish points a year in a men's league for the last three straight years versus a pick likely outside the range of impact players in a weak draft? Yeah I'd do that.

 

[MeinerEiner]

If Carolina finishes ticking off Nikishin enough that he requests a trade, whats everyone think about a deal around 9OA for him?

How about Karlsson for Nikishin? Retain on Karlsson and add a sweetener if necessary.

 

[Sideline]

How about Karlsson for Nikishin? Retain on Karlsson and add a sweetener if necessary.

I would retain EK down to 5MM to get Nikishin. I'd be open to a bit of a sweetener, but don't see the value as crazy far off with full retention.

 

[DesertedPenguin]

From an actual defending perspective I agree. However, Karlsson is still elite offensively and removing him will immediately make the overall offensive threat from the blue line non-existent. Letang is a way worse player overall. Bad defensively and anemic offensively. Gryz was arguably a better dman than Letang this year and he is like a cheap version of Karlsson. I hope they trade Karlsson, but when the offense predictably declines, his absence will be a key reason why.

At this stage, the Penguins would be better served acquiring assets for Karlsson and eventually replacing the offense expected from him - and later, Letang - in the aggregate. You may not Norris caliber defensemen anymore, but you can have guys who can effectively run the point on the power play, move the puck well, be a threat to score occasionally, AND be responsible in their own end.

I think spreading the wealth along the blueline will be a better way for the Pens moving forward unless they hit on a real dynamic defensive prospect at some point.

 

[Buddy Bizarre]

At this stage, the Penguins would be better served acquiring assets for Karlsson and eventually replacing the offense expected from him - and later, Letang - in the aggregate. You may not Norris caliber defensemen anymore, but you can have guys who can effectively run the point on the power play, move the puck well, be a threat to score occasionally, AND be responsible in their own end.

I think spreading the wealth along the blueline will be a better way for the Pens moving forward unless they hit on a real dynamic defensive prospect at some point.

Agree- they need to take a Moneyball approach with this and have "specialists" on defense.

 

[PensFutures]

Agree- they need to take a Moneyball approach with this and have "specialists" on defense.

KD: You cant play Nieto at LW tonight...hes been sent to WBS.
MS:

 

[wej20]

If Carolina finishes ticking off Nikishin enough that he requests a trade, whats everyone think about a deal around 9OA for him?

I assume there would be teams queing up for him so they'd probably deal him out West to avoid seeing him more than twice a year.

 

[Gurglesons]

At this stage, the Penguins would be better served acquiring assets for Karlsson and eventually replacing the offense expected from him - and later, Letang - in the aggregate. You may not Norris caliber defensemen anymore, but you can have guys who can effectively run the point on the power play, move the puck well, be a threat to score occasionally, AND be responsible in their own end.

I think spreading the wealth along the blueline will be a better way for the Pens moving forward unless they hit on a real dynamic defensive prospect at some point.

The issue is there is no D available.

 

[DesertedPenguin]

The issue is there is no D available.

I think it's a process. And development of prospects is really key. It also depends on how aggressive Dubas wants to be in terms of giving up assets. If he adds someone like Byram, does he also try for someone a little less expensive in Hague? Does he try to do a one-year reclamation deal with a younger UFA like Henri Jokiharju?

Or does he only do one major deal and then give an opportunity to guys like Kolyochonok and St. Ivany, along with Pickering, with the idea of adding more down the road?

 

[Gurglesons]

I think it's a process. And development of prospects is really key. It also depends on how aggressive Dubas wants to be in terms of giving up assets. If he adds someone like Byram, does he also try for someone a little less expensive in Hague? Does he try to do a one-year reclamation deal with a younger UFA like Henri Jokiharju?

Or does he only do one major deal and then give an opportunity to guys like Kolyochonok and St. Ivany, along with Pickering, with the idea of adding more down the road?

So you're proposing we enter into next season with a d group of..

Byram - Letang
Graves - Jokiharju
Shea - Timmins

?