Salary Cap: 24-25 Salary Thread Crosbicles Volume MXVI: End of season wrap up

[Gurglesons]

Yep. That's one take away I got from Dubas.

Making the playoffs isn't the goal it's being a contender.

I think we are unfortunately years away from that. I think Dubas has us moving in the right direction though. Just needs to clear up spots for the talent to fight for now.

Caps last year was the worst team in the playoffs. I don't see them as contenders this year either but should beat Montreal at least.

If that's "the goal / the plan" then we better be jettisoning Rakell and Rust immediately this summer.

If not, it's just more empty words from Dubas.

 

[KrisLetAngry]

If that's "the goal / the plan" then we better be jettisoning Rakell and Rust immediately this summer.

If not, it's just more empty words from Dubas.

I definitely want one of them gone. I am fine if one stays.

 

[SEALBound]

So it wasn't a full rebuild. Thanks!

Yes, I will agree with you there. It was a retool, not a rebuild. We did the same thing in 2015/2016.

Yep. That's one take away I got from Dubas.

Making the playoffs isn't the goal it's being a contender.

I think we are unfortunately years away from that. I think Dubas has us moving in the right direction though. Just needs to clear up spots for the talent to fight for now.

Caps last year was the worst team in the playoffs. I don't see them as contenders this year either but should beat Montreal at least.

Indeed but the NHL is cyclical. You just can't remain a top cup contender years on end. The fact that we had a solid 15 years of legit cup contention is incredible. It's going to take several years to get the young guys needed to become contenders again but if you look at every team in the playoffs, while we were dancing with Lord Stanley, they were in the gutter. Except Vegas.

If that's "the goal / the plan" then we better be jettisoning Rakell and Rust immediately this summer.

If not, it's just more empty words from Dubas.

One, maybe but we don't need to do both. Just like Washington didn't need to jettison Wilson during their retool.

That said, IF there was a willingness to move Rakell, Rust, and EK, there could be a significant retool that's possible.

 

[Gurglesons]

One, maybe but we don't need to do both. Just like Washington didn't need to jettison Wilson during their retool.

That said, IF there was a willingness to move Rakell, Rust, and EK, there could be a significant retool that's possible.

If we are viewing 2022-23 as the "start" of the retool. Tom Wilson was 28. Rust is 33. Rakell is 32. And we are saying we are at best two years away from being competitive.

 

[eXile3]

I would put money on Rakell and Rust being on the roster opening day.

 

[CheckingLineCenter]

It’s good to have both guys for McGroarty/Koivunen/etc. especially since Sid/Geno could get hurt, not perform well, and so on. There’s a point where 87/71 may go down.. and you’ve traded Rust and Rakell.. may not be great for a guy to play their rookie year next to Tommy Novak and Danton Heinen or similar players.

But we’re rebuilding so it’s also good to get a good return in a trade. (I will say I would probably rather have each of Rust/Raks over a late 1st in this class. That probably changes next draft though). They’re in their 30s. They’re not gonna be part of the next competitive window. Cashing in now makes sense.

Point is— Doesn’t really matter to me. You gotta balance development and asset management. These two definitely fall at the intersection. So I get it either way.

 

[Gurglesons]

It’s good to have both guys for McGroarty/Koivunen/etc. especially since Sid/Geno could get hurt, not perform well, and so on. There’s a point where 87/71 may go down.. and you’ve traded Rust and Rakell.. may not be great for a guy to play their rookie year next to Tommy Novak and Danton Heinen or similar players.

But we’re rebuilding so it’s also good to get a good return in a trade. (I will say I would probably rather have each of Rust/Raks over a late 1st in this class. That probably changes next draft though). They’re in their 30s. They’re not gonna be part of the next competitive window. Cashing in now makes sense.

Point is— Doesn’t really matter to me. You gotta balance development and asset management. These two definitely fall at the intersection. So I get it either way.

But, we only care about contending not being a playoff team.

So that's great for us.

 

[CheckingLineCenter]

But, we only care about contending not being a playoff team.

So that's great for us.

I don’t understand this post even a little

Explain like you would to a golden retreiver

Or a small child.

 

[Gurglesons]

I don’t understand this post even a little

Explain like you would to a golden retreiver

Or a small child.

If the goal is to be a contender, why do we care if the team flails into the bottom of the league following a Sid or Malkin injury?

 

[SEALBound]

Here's a major retool:

Nedeljkovich + 3rd to Dallas for Rights to Bourque + Dumba + CDS
Rakell + Rags 1st (top 5 protected) + 2027 2nd to Minny for Rossi + Ryder Ritchie
Rust + Pieniniemi + 2nd to Buffalo for Byram + Jack Quinn
EK @ $7mil to Carolina for Scott Morrow

McGroarty-Sid-Malkin
Koivunen-Rossi-Bourque
Hallander-Novak-Quinn

Byram-Letang
Gryz-Timmins
Pickering-Morrow
Dumba

Jarry-Blomqvist

Fill in the 4th line with existing players. There is a TON of cap space left over, even with slightly inflated hits on the new guys.

The defense is a wreck but we have Brunicke coming as well. We have others for the 3rd pairing. Could easily send a forward out for a dman.

 

[Jared Grayden]

I don’t understand this post even a little

Explain like you would to a golden retreiver

Or a small child.

The only reason to keep Rust, Rakell, and Karlsson is if wanting to be better in this next season. Otherwise all three confer greater benefit in acquiring futures for a hopefully contending team after Crosby retires. All three are at serious risk of age decline and at least Rust has been injury prone in recent years. There's more than sufficient current roster vets and vet options to bring in to mentor for the youth development. Dubas is trying to negotiate a T-intersection by going straight.
BTW, Margin Call is phenomenally underrated.

 

[CheckingLineCenter]

If the goal is to be a contender, why do we care if the team flails into the bottom of the league following a Sid or Malkin injury?

I don’t care

I am saying I care if a prospect’s development gets derailed because they have no one to play with

 

[Gurglesons]

I don’t care

I am saying I care if a prospect’s development gets derailed because they have no one to play with

This seems like an extreme over exaggeration.

Koivunen wil be 22 heading into next season. McGroarty is 21.

These aren't 18-19 year olds.

 

[Gurglesons]

The Penguins have Hayes, Novak, Heinen, Acciari and Lizotte under contract next year. Dewar and Tomasino likely as RFAs.

So that gives you without adding anyone...

4 wingers to fill out the top six and three forwards for the bottom six plus Koivunen and McGroarty.

I assume cap dumps or NHL ready players are coming back in Rust and Rakell deals.

So for example.. say you deal Rust to Buffalo for a 1st and Quinn and then Rakell to Utah for Maccelli and 1st.

Maccelli - Crosby - Koivunen
McGroarty- Malkin - Quinn
Dewar - Hayes - Tomasino
Heinen - Lizotte - Acciari

What is the problem here?

 

[Empoleon8771]

"We can't judge Poulin and Ponomarev in the bottom-6 because they played with shit, they're being set up to fail by not getting good linemates"

"It doesn't matter if the Penguins trade Rust and Rakell, not having anyone to play with McGroarty and Koivunen doesn't matter"

These points aren't consistent.

 

[Gurglesons]

"We can't judge Poulin and Ponomarev in the bottom-6 because they played with shit, they're being set up to fail by not getting good linemates"

"It doesn't matter if the Penguins trade Rust and Rakell, not having anyone to play with McGroarty and Koivunen doesn't matter"

These points aren't consistent.

I'm not sure who has ever made the comment, "we can't judge Poulin or Ponomarev playing in the bottom six", but it wasn't me.

 

[CheckingLineCenter]

This seems like an extreme over exaggeration.

It could be. It may derail them or may not derail them. I can’t know for sure. But we can both agree it’s def not bad for the prospects to come up playing with more talent, not less.

Overall I’m just saying I don’t think there’s a bad option today. I’m not really pressed to trade Rust or Rakell ASAP. If they do move them right now - great. If they don’t - great too.

 

[Gurglesons]

It could be. It may derail them or may nit derail them. I can’t know for sure. But we can both agree it’s def not bad for the prospects to come up playing with more talent, not less.

Overall I’m just saying I don’t think there’s a bad option today. I’m not really pressed to trade Rust or Rakell ASAP. If they do move them right now - great. If they don’t - great too.

Sure, but then like I said everything Kyle is saying is just empty words.

He's not attempting to "haul ass" to get them to a place where they are contending.

 

[Rudy Russo]

The Penguins had 10.920 million going into last offseason with the below roster. Dubas chose to spend the available cap on Ned, Gryz, Beauvillier, Kevin Hayes, Cody Glass, and Blake Lizottte.

View attachment 1020888

I like Lizotte

 

[Gurglesons]

I like Lizotte

If you add Lizotte and Glass. You're getting some assets, you enter the season with a 3C and 4C and then you have cap to actually improve the team.

 

[CheckingLineCenter]

Sure, but then like I said everything Kyle is saying is just empty words.

He's not attempting to "haul ass" to get them to a place where they are contending.

Yeah bro tbh I have been telling yall to stop giving one f*** about what that dude says or puts out there.

He is clearly uninterested in doing anything but corporate nothing speak and you and Emp are breaking down his pressers.

He’s completely BSing the media and fans. There’s nothing to take away from his public facing comments. And I don’t feel Yohe or anyone else really has a pulse either based on not getting anything right.

 

[SEALBound]

If you add Lizotte and Glass. You're getting some assets, you enter the season with a 3C and 4C and then you have cap to actually improve the team.

Or, you can also "improve the team" long-term by taking on a 2nd, 3rd, 3rd, and a 5th...and then getting another 3rd at the TDL by weaponizing capspace and cashing in on teams that are cap crunched.

There's not one right or one wrong way to do things.

 

[Gurglesons]

Yeah bro tbh I have been telling yall to stop giving one f*** about what that dude says or puts out there.

He is clearly uninterested in doing anything but corporate nothing speak and you and Emp are breaking down his pressers.

He’s completely BSing the media and fans.

Fair enough.

Then he's a corporate clown who is going to tank the franchise.

 

[Gurglesons]

Or, you can also "improve the team" long-term by taking on a 2nd, 3rd, 3rd, and a 5th...and then getting another 3rd at the TDL by weaponizing capspace and cashing in on teams that are cap crunched.

There's not one right or one wrong way to do things.

Then don't use "Washington had cap space" as an excuse for why Washington is above us.

PIT has had lots of cap space the last two off seasons and has used it badly to improve the team.

 

[CheckingLineCenter]

Fair enough.

Then he's a corporate clown who is going to tank the franchise.

Maybe. Or maybe he’s good at his job and just doesn’t tell anyone his plans besides like 3 people.

Who tf knows. Time will tell.